Kitty Werthmann's message to us...

[MaggieD]

I'm not sure what point you're contesting.

1- Hitler was a eugenicist who wanted to exterminate inferior races. That has virtually nothing in common with any aspect of proposed American policy.

2- OECD.org -> you can click on the data. Look at "public health expenditures" (money the government spends on health care as a % of GDP) and look at "total health expenditures" (money that either the government or the private sector spends on health care as a % of GDP). The OECD average for total healthcare expenditures is 8.9% of GDP, and the US spends 7.9% of GDP on public health expenditures. Let that sink in. Of 34 developed nations, the average price of care is so much lower than the price of care in the US that our government spending alone could already provide healthcare to almost every American. That's just a pathetic rate of efficiency. Our healthcare isn't even particularly exceptional, it's poorly coordinated.

3- The government pays for higher education in countries like Germany. That's also true. They're not going bankrupt. They're not losing their rights.

So please help me understand what, specifically, you're contesting here.

If we don't guard our freedom, it most certainly will disappear. We can't EVER afford to say, "That could never happen here." I think our forefathers would do backflips in their graves if they could see how far we are from their ideals today...and that we're headed even further away.

Paraphrased -- democracy will be defeated without even firing a shot. It will be defeated from within.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Actually no. The woman who wrote that was making the explicit point that the US is heading towards totalitarianism. While she is slightly less than blatant in the email quoted to start the thread, she has stated wuite clearly since what she meant by it. The OP tried to make a point that was seen through rather easily by most.

Well, the points addressed in the picture, did not really allude to anything other than what I wrote.
So, unless one is an expert on "Kitty Wtfhernameis" no one should know nor assume as such.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Thanks, Harry. I'm glad at least ONE person got the point.


A lot of people in this thread, who I THOUGHT knew me better, have made some pretty wild assumptions.

Well, I mean I know people sometimes fall to moronic false equivalencies (I've done it plenty), but I was rather assured you didn't.

 

[Redress]

Well, the points addressed in the picture, did not really allude to anything other than what I wrote.
So, unless one is an expert on "Kitty Wtfhernameis" no one should know nor assume as such.

She makes her living comparing the US to nazi Austria and Obama to Hitler, and Goshin has a long history of buying into that kind of crap. He has discussed the need for possible revolution, and prepping, and that kind of thing. He thinks no one is smart enough to see what he was doing here, but it really was pretty transparent,

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

She makes her living comparing the US to nazi Austria and Obama to Hitler, and Goshin has a long history of buying into that kind of crap. He has discussed the need for possible revolution, and prepping, and that kind of thing. He thinks no one is smart enough to see what he was doing here, but it really was pretty transparent,

Ok, but it doesn't change what was written and the fact that most don't know who she is.
I seriously doubt Gosh was making a ****ty false equivalency but rather a generalized point, using that as an example.

This isn't worth getting all butthurt about.

 

[Graham]

Almost no one thinks that Austria was rolled over with tanks. Anyone with rudimentary historical knowledge knows that many Austrians wanted to be reunited with Germany and that they considered themselves Germans. The Wehrmacht troops were greeted with Nazi salutes and mass cheering, not pointed rifles, and the enthusiasm was not so much a function of the purported success of Germany under the Nazis, as it was an expression of dissatisfaction with Schuschnigg and the Fatherland Front regime.

I dispute Werthmann's assertion about how totalitarianism was gradually introduced and that had it been instant the Austrians would have revolted. The Austrofascist regime that preceded the Anschluss had most of the elements of such a totalitarian state, including the requisite corporatism and support from Mussolini. The Austrians had lived under a dictatorial system for years, and yet the only meaningful revolts seen during Austrofascism were by the Austrian Nazi Party attempting to accelerate the Union.

Ultimately, I disagree with the implications of her speech. Austria was susceptible to Fascism because it had its own history of suppressing liberal democracy, and because of the political results of WWI. The U.S., by way of contrast, would not surrender its liberties in such a manner because of the country's inexorable commitment to its liberties and its treatment of politicians who attempt to suppress them.

 

[Absentglare]

If we don't guard our freedom, it most certainly will disappear. We can't EVER afford to say, "That could never happen here." I think our forefathers would do backflips in their graves if they could see how far we are from their ideals today...and that we're headed even further away.

Paraphrased -- democracy will be defeated without even firing a shot. It will be defeated from within.

This still doesn't make sense.

What we should be worried about is putting ourselves in a severe economic depression through bad fiscal policy where we become desperate. It doesn't matter how vigilant we try to be, this one woman could not have stopped the annexation of Austria.

If we're worried about bad fiscal policy, we should stop electing republicans.

 

[Absentglare]

Ok, but it doesn't change what was written and the fact that most don't know who she is.
I seriously doubt Gosh was making a ****ty false equivalency but rather a generalized point, using that as an example.

This isn't worth getting all butthurt about.

You can't assume someone's intent.

But i think the "socialized medicine" statement was clear enough. This is another ploy to equivocate doing what's good for the people, like regulating health care, to nazism. It's a bizarre stretch and i'm not surprised no one is willing to take credit for the blunder.

 

[MaggieD]

This still doesn't make sense.

What we should be worried about is putting ourselves in a severe economic depression through bad fiscal policy where we become desperate. It doesn't matter how vigilant we try to be, this one woman could not have stopped the annexation of Austria.

If we're worried about bad fiscal policy, we should stop electing republicans.

Fortunately, protecting our freedom doesn't just depend on those too blind to see.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

You can't assume someone's intent.

Sure I can, especially if I have a reasonable relationship with the person.

But i think the "socialized medicine" statement was clear enough. This is another ploy to equivocate doing what's good for the people, like regulating health care, to nazism. It's a bizarre stretch and i'm not surprised no one is willing to take credit for the blunder.

It's not.
Goshin is the type to go Obama, Democrats, etc. = Hitler.

 

[Absentglare]

Sure I can, especially if I have a reasonable relationship with the person.



It's not.
Goshin is the type to go Obama, Democrats, etc. = Hitler.

Allow me to rephrase.

You can never know someone else's intent.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Allow me to rephrase.

You can never know someone else's intent.

Well I think I have a good idea.
Gosh is a pretty stand up fellow, imo.

 

[Redress]

Well I think I have a good idea.
Gosh is a pretty stand up fellow, imo.

He is a pretty good fellow, and I think highly of him, but the kind of over the top, OMG, tyranny, revolution, Hitler crap that this lady spreads is very much in character for him.

 

[iguanaman]

And that's better than sending proud American soldiers to whoop genocidal dictator ass?

Yes, far better. We had no business deciding for the Iraqi's, Lincoln had every right to keep America together, he was the President. Invading a sovereign nation is the stuff of Dictators.

 

[ecofarm]

Yes, far better. We had no business deciding for the Iraqi's,

I think it's fair to believe those suffering genocide would decide, if they had the power, to no longer suffer genocide. Maybe that's going out on a limb. Do you think they liked it and wanted more?

 

[Goshin]

She makes her living comparing the US to nazi Austria and Obama to Hitler, and Goshin has a long history of buying into that kind of crap. He has discussed the need for possible revolution, and prepping, and that kind of thing. He thinks no one is smart enough to see what he was doing here, but it really was pretty transparent,

You mischaracterize me a great deal, making me sound like some tin foil hatter.

I've talked about the possibility of armed revolt yes... but if you've read much of what I wrote, you'd know it is something I consider a desperate and absolute last-resort against overtly unconstitutional acts, and that I clearly consider it undesirable and avoidable.

I've talked about prepping yes... but made it clear I'm more concerned about hurricanes, floods and similar disasters than collapse-of-civilization stuff. Frankly I don't think trying to prepare for the latter is really practical, or necessary... I just have an appreciation for as much of a self-reliant lifestyle as I can manage.

I don't like Obama, I've never made a secret of that... but I've never been among the hyperpartisan anti-Obamanites that call him everything but the devil and think every time he farts it is part of a conspiracy. I'd think that's pretty obvious, since I've been critical of those who have started major criticism threads against Obama over trivial things like vacations and such.


So nice try but the only cigar here is the one I'm currently smoking...

 

[Goshin]

Look folks.... I thought it was an interesting read about what happened in Austria, and a good cautionary tale against creeping statism.


That was all.


Apparently everybody and his brother (except Harry) decided to think that I PERSONALLY was directing the whole thing at the Obama administration. I wasn't. Mmkay? Frankly I wish I'd never posted the damn thing now.

 

[Ray410]

I can see so many of the parallels that the lady in the video is making, however I come to a different conclusion.

I would conclude that Obama is engineering an American death much on the same order as the death of the Roman Empire, given the lack of a common language, destruction of education, refusal to enforce the laws, wholesale importation of Mexicans, Muslims and Asians (all with their own languages) and immediately worshipping their presence, the destruction of the family and enforced lack of clarity between the two sexes. The list could go on and on and the result is the same; A slow painful death of the formerly greatest country in the world.

 

[iguanaman]

I think it's fair to believe those suffering genocide would decide, if they had the power, to no longer suffer genocide. Maybe that's going out on a limb. Do you think they liked it and wanted more?

LOL We helped Saddam get away with gassing the Kurds. So much for caring about genocide. Saddam had Sunni and Shia living peacefully side by side. Did we achieve that?

CNN found that intervention is often weighed against political and economic costs.

Declassified U.S. government documents show that while Saddam Hussein was gassing Iraqi Kurds, the U.S. opposed punishing Iraq with a trade embargo because it was cultivating Iraq as an ally against Iran and as a market for U.S. farm exports.

According to Peter Galbraith, then an idealistic Senate staffer determined to stop Hussein from committing genocide, the Reagan administration "got carried away with their own propaganda. They began to believe that Saddam Hussein could be a reliable partner." Read once-secret U.S. documents

The world's most heinous crime - CNN.com

 

[ecofarm]

LOL We helped Saddam get away with gassing the Kurds. So much for caring about genocide. Saddam had Sunni and Shia living peacefully side by side. Did we achieve that?

Yeah sure, make excuses for genocide. And did you forget about the genocide against the Marsh Arabs? If mass killing, institutionalized rape and starving hundreds of thousands of children is "living peacefully side by side" then the world has never had a problem.

 

[Redress]

You mischaracterize me a great deal, making me sound like some tin foil hatter.

I've talked about the possibility of armed revolt yes... but if you've read much of what I wrote, you'd know it is something I consider a desperate and absolute last-resort against overtly unconstitutional acts, and that I clearly consider it undesirable and avoidable.

I've talked about prepping yes... but made it clear I'm more concerned about hurricanes, floods and similar disasters than collapse-of-civilization stuff. Frankly I don't think trying to prepare for the latter is really practical, or necessary... I just have an appreciation for as much of a self-reliant lifestyle as I can manage.

I don't like Obama, I've never made a secret of that... but I've never been among the hyperpartisan anti-Obamanites that call him everything but the devil and think every time he farts it is part of a conspiracy. I'd think that's pretty obvious, since I've been critical of those who have started major criticism threads against Obama over trivial things like vacations and such.


So nice try but the only cigar here is the one I'm currently smoking...

Look folks.... I thought it was an interesting read about what happened in Austria, and a good cautionary tale against creeping statism.


That was all.


Apparently everybody and his brother (except Harry) decided to think that I PERSONALLY was directing the whole thing at the Obama administration. I wasn't. Mmkay? Frankly I wish I'd never posted the damn thing now.

You are not doing it, then the next post you explicitly make the comparison. Well done...

 

[Goshin]

You are not doing it, then the next post you explicitly make the comparison. Well done...

Noting that others were making the comparison =/= making it myself.


Again, I get to keep my cigar.

 

[iguanaman]

Yeah sure, make excuses for genocide. And did you forget about the genocide against the Marsh Arabs? If mass killing, institutionalized rape and starving hundreds of thousands of children is "living peacefully side by side" then the world has never had a problem.

You aren't really saying that the Iraqi'a are better off now are you? We destroyed the Iraqi military, invited in Alqeada and handed what was left it to the Iranians and now ISIS. Iraqi's are leaving in droves. Humanitarian wise our invasion and occupation caused far more Iraqi deaths that Saddam could even dream of.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

He is a pretty good fellow, and I think highly of him, but the kind of over the top, OMG, tyranny, revolution, Hitler crap that this lady spreads is very much in character for him.

We'll just have to agree to disagree to the later part then.

 

[joG]

Almost no one thinks that Austria was rolled over with tanks. Anyone with rudimentary historical knowledge knows that many Austrians wanted to be reunited with Germany and that they considered themselves Germans. The Wehrmacht troops were greeted with Nazi salutes and mass cheering, not pointed rifles, and the enthusiasm was not so much a function of the purported success of Germany under the Nazis, as it was an expression of dissatisfaction with Schuschnigg and the Fatherland Front regime.

I dispute Werthmann's assertion about how totalitarianism was gradually introduced and that had it been instant the Austrians would have revolted. The Austrofascist regime that preceded the Anschluss had most of the elements of such a totalitarian state, including the requisite corporatism and support from Mussolini. The Austrians had lived under a dictatorial system for years, and yet the only meaningful revolts seen during Austrofascism were by the Austrian Nazi Party attempting to accelerate the Union.

Ultimately, I disagree with the implications of her speech. Austria was susceptible to Fascism because it had its own history of suppressing liberal democracy, and because of the political results of WWI. The U.S., by way of contrast, would not surrender its liberties in such a manner because of the country's inexorable commitment to its liberties and its treatment of politicians who attempt to suppress them.

I don't know I would talk of Austria's reuniting with Germany, but tales by the participants and (non-German) newsreels from the time indicate it was a fest