Killing Homosexuals Is Not ISIS Law, It Is Muslim Law

[Jack Hays]

Here is the answer. The core of Islamic faith is the Five Pillars of Islam. It is not required to kill anyone be a true follower of Islam.

https://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-16.htm

Please see the link in #99.

[FONT=&quot]1. Muslim homophobia is institutionalized. Islamic law as derived from scripture, and as evolved over several centuries, not only condemns but prescribes cruel and unusual punishments for homosexuality.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Many Muslim-majority countries have laws that criminalize and punish homosexuals in line with Islamic law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. It is thus not surprising that the attitudes of Muslims in Muslim-majority countries are homophobic and that many people from those countries take those attitudes with them when they migrate to the West.[/FONT]

​

[FONT=&quot]4. The rise of modern Islamic extremism has worsened the intolerance toward homosexuality. Extremists don’t just commit violence against LGBT people. They also spread the prejudice globally by preaching that homosexuality is a disease and a crime.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Not all Muslims are homophobic. Many are gay or lesbian themselves. Some even have the courage to venture into the gender fluidity that the 21st century West has come to recognize. But these LGBT Muslims are running directly counter to their religion.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In his 2006 book “Crime and Punishment in Islamic Law,” the Dutch scholar Rudolph Peters notes that most schools of Islamic law proscribe homosexuality. They differ only on the mode of punishment. “The Malikites, the Shiites and some Shafi’ites and Hanbalites are of the opinion that the penalty is death, either by stoning (Malikites), the sword (some Shafi’ites and Hanbalites) or, at the discretion of the court, by killing the culprit in the usual manner with a sword, stoning him, throwing him from a (high) wall or burning him (Shiites).”. . . .[/FONT]

 

[devildavid]

Yes, theocracies suck. So do a lot of political ideologies. That is because major a-holes who lust after power over people will use any sick, twisted beliefs to sucker in idiot followers who fall for crap that aligns with their own prejudices and hatreds. The problem is that sick, twisted people get enough power to impose their sick, twisted take on religions and ideologies on the masses. All religion and pure ideology should be kept where it belongs, in the fevered imaginations of fools who believe in that nonsense. It should have no real power on earth.

 

[chromium]

This still doesn't answer the question. Does an individual, in their lifetime, have to kill a homosexual in order to be said to be truly following Islam? Is it a requirement of the religion? I don't care what ISIS says or what any Islamic government says. They do not represent the religion of Islam. They use Islam as a means to exercise power over people. What is required of an individual believer in Islam, separate from all Islamic groups, in regard to killing homosexuals?

it's an empty question because the koran was assembled in pieces, plagiarized from other sources, and heavily redacted

as far as those '5 pillars' this killer made the trip to mecca twice. He probably fulfilled at least 3 of the others, so if the religion does not stand for mass murder then clearly it had its priorities ****ed. What can we expect when looking to ancient bloody times for a guide to living. They missed small details like not massacring unarmed innocent people

 

[Manc Skipper]

Muslims in America are more likely to support gay marriage than evangelical Christians. So dogmatic.

In America, Muslims Are More Likely to Support Gay Marriage Than Evangelical Christians - Hit & Run : Reason.com

 

[devildavid]

it's an empty question because the koran was assembled in pieces, plagiarized from other sources, and heavily redacted

as far as those '5 pillars' this killer made the trip to mecca twice. He probably fulfilled at least 3 of the others, so if the religion does not stand for mass murder then clearly it had its priorities ****ed. What can we expect when looking to ancient bloody times for a guide to living. They missed small details like not massacring unarmed innocent people

What he did is not a part of the 5 pillars. Where in Islam does it say that individuals must kill anyone as part of their religious obligation?

 

[poweRob]

Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."​

Scary, SCARY the hate these people have.

Agreed.

 

[Renae]

Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."​

Agreed.

Agreed that we've covered the Old Testament doesn't apply anymore, but good on you for being that guy, failing again.

 

[poweRob]

Agreed that we've covered the Old Testament doesn't apply anymore, but good on you for being that guy, failing again.

I expected this response. Guess we should just throw the 10 Commandments in the trash then. It would seem that if the whole old testament didn't matter anymore, then it wouldn't have been included in the Holy Bible. Doncha think?

I grew up in the bible belt and watched Christian thumpers hold the bible over their head and say "Believe all of it, or none of it!" What's funny is watching Christians cherry pick what they want to follow out of the Bible while choosing to ignore what they want, like you just did, then cherry pick negative quotes out of the Koran to bash Muslims with, like you just did.

If the old testament doesn't apply anymore, then do tell us why all you Bible thumping republicans still quote Leviticus (the same book in the Bible I just quoted) to tell us that a man lying with a man is an abomination?

There's no consistency or logic in social conservatives. That's wherein the real fail lies. Again and again and again...

 

[Renae]

I expected this response. Guess we should just throw the 10 Commandments in the trash then. It would seem that if the whole old testament didn't matter anymore, then it wouldn't have been included in the Holy Bible. Doncha think?

I grew up in the bible belt and watched Christian thumpers hold the bible over their head and say "Believe all of it, or none of it!" What's funny is watching Christians cherry pick what they want to follow out of the Bible while choosing to ignore what they want, like you just did, then cherry pick negative quotes out of the Koran to bash Muslims with, like you just did.

If the old testament doesn't apply anymore, then do tell us why all you Bible thumping republicans still quote Leviticus (the same book in the Bible I just quoted) to tell us that a man lying with a man is an abomination?

There's no consistency or logic in social conservatives. That's wherein the real fail lies. Again and again and again...

Maybe do a little research on the Bible, Christianity instead of making a fool of yourself? Until then I think there is nothing more to discuss with you. Have a great evening!

 

[Mithrae]

Not all Muslims are homophobic. Many are gay or lesbian themselves. Some even have the courage to venture into the gender fluidity that the 21st century West has come to recognize. But these LGBT Muslims are running directly counter to their religion.

So I take it that you (like Renae) are endorsing central authority or unchanging fundamentalism as the 'correct' approach to religion?

Since religion isn't disappearing any time soon, obviously as long as that approach continues to be widely held it will serve to perpetuate the oppression of women around the world, sexual minorities such as the LGBT community wherever Abrahamic religions hold sway, lower 'castes' in India and so on.

The alternative of course is recognising that the notion of a 'true' Christianity/Islam etc. is absurd in modern civilization (if it ever had any merit!). Religions are what their adherents make of them, regardless of whether their name happens to be Abraham or Moses, Isaiah or Ezra, Jesus or Paul, Luther or Pius, Bob or Abdul.

Is there a reason that you seem to be rejecting this latter view?

 

[katzgar]

it is also baptist law

 

[RetiredUSN]

Muslims in America are more likely to support gay marriage than evangelical Christians. So dogmatic.

In America, Muslims Are More Likely to Support Gay Marriage Than Evangelical Christians - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Muslims in America are proven to be more likely to shoot up a popular gay night spot as well.

 

[Mithrae]

As a point of interest, if we're discussing Islamic Sharia law, extrapolated from the results of a 2013 Pew poll here's a rough estimate of the percentage of Muslims in various non-Western countries who would want to impose Sharia law on others against their will in that country.

Obviously the numbers who'd impose Shariah in other countries would generally be lower; and equally obviously, these numbers aren't the same as saying they would force anyone to convert (non-Muslims can live under Sharia), and certainly not that they would murder anyone (which is obviously the opposite of law).

Kazakhstan	2-3%
Kosovo		5-6%
Turkey		6-7%
Bosnia-Herz.	6-7%
Tajikistan	9-11%
Lebanon		14-17%
Kyrgyzstan	22-27%
Tunisia		26-31%
Bangaladesh	36-43%
Indonesia	37-45%
Iraq		38-46%
Malaysia	53-64%
Jordan		58-70%
Palestin. terr.	59-70%
Egypt		64-76%
Pakistan	64-77%
Afghanistan	78-94%

The percentages who'd want Sharia may be higher; but only for those willing to live under it (ie, only for Muslims and without executing apostates).

 

[joG]

As a point of interest, if we're discussing Islamic Sharia law, extrapolated from the results of a 2013 Pew poll here's a rough estimate of the percentage of Muslims in various non-Western countries who would want to impose Sharia law on others against their will in that country.

Obviously the numbers who'd impose Shariah in other countries would generally be lower; and equally obviously, these numbers aren't the same as saying they would force anyone to convert (non-Muslims can live under Sharia), and certainly not that they would murder anyone (which is obviously the opposite of law).

Kazakhstan	2-3%
Kosovo		5-6%
Turkey		6-7%
Bosnia-Herz.	6-7%
Tajikistan	9-11%
Lebanon		14-17%
Kyrgyzstan	22-27%
Tunisia		26-31%
Bangaladesh	36-43%
Indonesia	37-45%
Iraq		38-46%
Malaysia	53-64%
Jordan		58-70%
Palestin. terr.	59-70%
Egypt		64-76%
Pakistan	64-77%
Afghanistan	78-94%

The percentages who'd want Sharia may be higher; but only for those willing to live under it (ie, only for Muslims and without executing apostates).

I do not recall that study to have looked at the use of capital punishment under Sharia for adultery or homosexual behavior. Did it?

 

[Manc Skipper]

Muslims in America are proven to be more likely to shoot up a popular gay night spot as well.

That's a specific claim. Show me the numbers. What percentage?

 

[Mithrae]

I do not recall that study to have looked at the use of capital punishment under Sharia for adultery or homosexual behavior. Did it?

I provided a link They did ask about execution for adultery, not homosexuality.

 

[joG]

I provided a link They did ask about execution for adultery, not homosexuality.

Sorry. I was looking at the figures, when I formulated. And yes, it is the study I remembered. It makes one wonder how quickly we want the Gods to grant us our desires and give these peoples democracy.

 

[calamity]

... did you read your own link?

I know. Right?

The Hadith and homosexuality: The Hadith are collections of sayings attributed to Muhammad. Many Hadiths (ahadith) discuss liwat (sexual intercourse between males). Two examples are:

"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive partners in gay sexual intercourse)

 

[poweRob]

Maybe do a little research on the Bible, Christianity instead of making a fool of yourself? Until then I think there is nothing more to discuss with you. Have a great evening!

I accept your fleeing surrender. Have a nice day.

 

[calamity]

I expected this response. Guess we should just throw the 10 Commandments in the trash then. It would seem that if the whole old testament didn't matter anymore, then it wouldn't have been included in the Holy Bible. Doncha think?

I grew up in the bible belt and watched Christian thumpers hold the bible over their head and say "Believe all of it, or none of it!" What's funny is watching Christians cherry pick what they want to follow out of the Bible while choosing to ignore what they want, like you just did, then cherry pick negative quotes out of the Koran to bash Muslims with, like you just did.

If the old testament doesn't apply anymore, then do tell us why all you Bible thumping republicans still quote Leviticus (the same book in the Bible I just quoted) to tell us that a man lying with a man is an abomination?

There's no consistency or logic in social conservatives. That's wherein the real fail lies. Again and again and again...

Christians may be nuts, but so far they are only known for killing abortion doctors here in the States. I haven't heard of one shooting up a gay night club. Have you?

 

[Jack Hays]

So I take it that you (like Renae) are endorsing central authority or unchanging fundamentalism as the 'correct' approach to religion?

Since religion isn't disappearing any time soon, obviously as long as that approach continues to be widely held it will serve to perpetuate the oppression of women around the world, sexual minorities such as the LGBT community wherever Abrahamic religions hold sway, lower 'castes' in India and so on.

The alternative of course is recognising that the notion of a 'true' Christianity/Islam etc. is absurd in modern civilization (if it ever had any merit!). Religions are what their adherents make of them, regardless of whether their name happens to be Abraham or Moses, Isaiah or Ezra, Jesus or Paul, Luther or Pius, Bob or Abdul.

Is there a reason that you seem to be rejecting this latter view?

Not sure what point you're trying to make. I'm an adherent of no religion but Muslims in 2016 are certainly more oppressive than others.

 

[Mr Person]

Scary, SCARY the hate these people have.

It's Christian "law" too, in many ways. Fortunately most* Christians don't go around killing gay people because they are at least willing to admit that not every last word in a book that is thousands of years old actually need to be obeyed.








*But not all. So I won't pretend that Christians just want to kill all the gays, even though some do.