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Juno actor Ellen Page publicly comes out as a transgender male named Elliot and tells fans in a statement: 'My pronouns are he/they' - as wife of two

buck said:
The poster said Ellen has the freedom to believe what she wants. The poster, likewise, has the freedom to believe what he wants.
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So basically, you are called out on your boorish behavior with regards to Page, yet want to complain that others are engaging in boorish behavior by calling you out.

Correct me if I am wrong - is what's good for the goose, not good for the gander in this case?
 
Visbek said:
:rolleyes:

"Transgenderism" is about both biological sex and gender -- specifically, it's when the individual experiences a strong mismatch between their sense of their gender, and their biological features.

And yes, that almost certainly does have a biological basis, because it is almost certainly a neurological condition that produces the experience of a mismatch.



:rolleyes:

Body Integrity Identity Dysmorphia (BIID) is very likely a neurological condition (not a psychological one). We don't really know how to treat it well, so mostly we rely on CBT and anti-depressants, which have a low success rate. As a result, there are some medical professionals who believe that surgical amputations are the best possible treatment. It's certainly better than patients who attempt and/or succeed at self-amputations, or mutilate their bodies in order to require a surgical amputation.
(E.g. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s11673-019-09959-5.pdf)

What we don't do is tell people with BID that they are "delusional." In fact, BIID is non-delusional by definition. That not only leads to faulty treatment, it also increases the stigma, which is already often overwhelming for patients.

Anyway. Guess what? Many transgender individuals undergo extensive therapy and are on anti-depressants, and it doesn't magically stop them from experiencing gender dysphoria. Hmmmm.

Thanks, but no thanks, for the rampantly ignorant and inaccurate suggestions. Good luck submitting your work to the NEJM.



Yes, you have. You've said several times that transgenderism is a "delusion," and that we have to basically force a transgender individual to match their self-perception to their biological sex -- even though that is exactly what causes them distress.



Good news! We ARE treating them, with treatments that are appropriate for their condition. This includes, but is not limited to:

- Verifying that the gender dysphoria is persistent
- Helping them accept who they are, and how they want to be identified
- Hormone treatment
- Sex reassignment surgery

Plus, some of us recognize that the stigma of being transgender is immensely damaging, and should stop.

Maybe there will be a day when we develop a pill or procedure that, instead of matching the body to the gender perception, alters the brain's perception to match the biological sex. However, that has not worked so far, and it only makes the problem worse. Further, you can't even begin to develop those types of treatments until you recognize that transgenderism has a neurological or physiological basis. So, until that day comes, the best thing to do take transgenderism seriously, provide support, and accept their situation.
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Serious question, the folks that used to consider themselves bull dykes back in the day, are they all transgenders now?
 
Visbek said:
:rolleyes:

"Transgenderism" is about both biological sex and gender -- specifically, it's when the individual experiences a strong mismatch between their sense of their gender, and their biological features.

And yes, that almost certainly does have a biological basis, because it is almost certainly a neurological condition that produces the experience of a mismatch.
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~ snipped ~

You are attempting to speak to them about matters fully based in science, with academic sources.

Don't aim so high. Find a Facebook meme. It will work far better.
 
Superfly said:
Dude, why do you care so much? Do you stick your nose in everybody's bedroom, or just the bedrooms of celebrities?
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Her/his/their/it's Twitter announcement, not her/his/their/it's bedroom
 
buck said:
So then to you its ok for her to trick people in to gay sex in the case of a Straight man, or straight sex in the case of a lesbian. I completely disagree.

But since I don't consider Ellen a he, I don't have to justify the obvious contradiction and ethical/Moral dilemma.
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He didnt consciously trick anyone because he wasn't out to himself. He was still struggling to understand his gender identity when he was Ellen. You're trying to read a lot more into this than actually exists.

What moral and/or ethical dilemma to transgender people cause?
 
There are at least two problems with "it's". I guess we'll start with the more important one: It is transphobic. Which leads us to the second obvious problem.
 
ecofarm said:
There are at least two problem with "it's". I guess we'll start with the more important one: It is transphobic. Which leads us to the second obvious problem.
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THANK you. You noticed that, too? Not only misgendered him, but called him an "it."
 
Superfly said:
Are you ****ing kidding me?
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Nope. She/he/they/it is the one making the public announcement, not keeping it in her/his/their/its bedroom.
 
Superfly said:
THANK you. You noticed that, too? Not only misgendered him, but called him an "it."
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Being transphobic is kinda like calling someone stupid and requires proper grammar. If someone can't type in English, how far can any explanation go.
 
ecofarm said:
Being transphobic is kinda like calling someone stupid and requires proper grammar. If someone can't type in English, how far can any explanation go.
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What a glory it must be to never make a typo.
 
Rawley said:
And now you are a mind reading God. Glory be
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You accidentally hit the ' key? Come on. In between t and s? It was not an accidental key, a typo. As I noted previously, being transphobic is like calling someone stupid and thus requires proper grammar. It's not being a grammar nazi to criticize the grammar of someone putting others down. Them's the rules.

And I didn't claim I'm perfect. That's you acting like a ten year old.
 
ecofarm said:
You accidentally hit the ' key? Come on. In between t and s? It was not an accidental key, a typo. As I noted previously, being transphobic is like calling someone stupid and thus requires proper grammar. It's not being a grammar nazi to criticize the grammar of someone putting others down. Them's the rules.
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For grammar freaks, one would think you would know that "typographical" does not mean "accidental".

And that "it" is defined as "a person or animal whose sex is unknown or disregarded"
 
My own feeling is that life is to short to remain unhappy with the sex you were born with. If it makes you happy to be a man or a woman, then go for it, especially since it doesn't affect anyone but yourself.

My only advice would be to go the non-surgical route for a while. Be sure it's what you want. Live with it a while. Then, if you're completely sure, do what you will, keeping in mind that it might be irreversible. If you can live your dream without the surgery, then I think that's probably better, but it's up to you.

(When I say "dream," I don't mean it's delusional--I just mean it's something you want.)
 
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