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Jill Stein: “Edward Snowden Should Be Brought Home With A Hero’s Welcome”

Jack Hays said:
The program was reviewed by the White House and Attorney General before it was launched. It was based on legislation reviewed by counsel in both House and Senate.
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Because **** the Constitution and the Law! It only applies to the Gov't when its convenient...
 
Edward Snowden has done extraordinary damage to the US and has caused Americans to die.
 
Jack Hays said:
The program was reviewed by the White House and Attorney General before it was launched. It was based on legislation reviewed by counsel in both House and Senate.
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Well, then! I guess that trumps the constitution. That means the government should be able to take away your 1st and 2nd amendment rights as well and you'd be perfectly ok with it right?

Jack Hays said:
Edward Snowden has done extraordinary damage to the US and has caused Americans to die.
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Nope. Sources directly linking any deaths of any kind to Snowden exposing massive government overreach? I'll never understand you "security always trumps liberty" types.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Well, then! I guess that trumps the constitution. That means the government should be able to take away your 1st and 2nd amendment rights as well and you'd be perfectly ok with it right? Nope. Sources directly linking any deaths of any kind to Snowden exposing massive government overreach? I'll never understand you "security always trumps liberty" types.
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I understand them completely.

our-lord-and-savior-the-us-government.jpg


Obedience is the New Crusade.
 
kanabco said:
Things like this reminds one how hard it is to stay true to a particular political philopsphy. On this one I am with the conservatives.
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Which position is the conservative one on this? I would not that cpwill, one of the more conservative posters on the board, and myself, one of the more liberal posters, have very similar views on this. Reaction to Snowden does not seem to be based on ideology.
 
Redress said:
Which position is the conservative one on this? I would not that cpwill, one of the more conservative posters on the board, and myself, one of the more liberal posters, have very similar views on this. Reaction to Snowden does not seem to be based on ideology.
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My mistake. I may have watched the wrong Fox commentator once. I though it was pretty set. Thanks for bring it to my attention.
 
kanabco said:
My mistake. I may have watched the wrong Fox commentator once. I though it was pretty set. Thanks for bring it to my attention.
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It is not based upon ideology.
It is based upon level of obedience to authority...
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Well, then! I guess that trumps the constitution. That means the government should be able to take away your 1st and 2nd amendment rights as well and you'd be perfectly ok with it right?



Nope. Sources directly linking any deaths of any kind to Snowden exposing massive government overreach? I'll never understand you "security always trumps liberty" types.
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The laws in question have been affirmed in court.
 
Jack Hays said:
The laws in question have been affirmed in court.
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I can't stand people with strong convictions on subjects they have little to no knowledge on. The NSA's spying program against US citizens absolutely, positively was ruled illegal by multiple federal courts. You may think security should always trump liberty, but some of us actually value the constitution and our rights. God bless Snowden.

NSA mass phone surveillance revealed by Edward Snowden ruled illegal | US news | The Guardian
NSA's phone spying program ruled illegal by appeals court | Reuters
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/us...ourt.html?_r=0
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I can't stand people with strong convictions on subjects they have little to no knowledge on. The NSA's spying program against US citizens absolutely, positively was ruled illegal by multiple federal courts. You may think security should always trump liberty, but some of us actually value the constitution and our rights. God bless Snowden.

NSA mass phone surveillance revealed by Edward Snowden ruled illegal | US news | The Guardian
NSA's phone spying program ruled illegal by appeals court | Reuters
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/us...ourt.html?_r=0
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You don't seem to understand the rulings. The court only ruled that the NSA surveillance was outside the scope of the patriot act, it made no ruling on whether such data collection was a violation of the 4th amendment.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I can't stand people with strong convictions on subjects they have little to no knowledge on. The NSA's spying program against US citizens absolutely, positively was ruled illegal by multiple federal courts. You may think security should always trump liberty, but some of us actually value the constitution and our rights. God bless Snowden.

NSA mass phone surveillance revealed by Edward Snowden ruled illegal | US news | The Guardian
NSA's phone spying program ruled illegal by appeals court | Reuters
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/us...ourt.html?_r=0
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And I can't stand people who don't keep up with an evolving situation. Your references are from May 2015. In October 2015 the programs were ruled legal, as already posted.
 
Redress said:
Which position is the conservative one on this? I would not that cpwill, one of the more conservative posters on the board, and myself, one of the more liberal posters, have very similar views on this. Reaction to Snowden does not seem to be based on ideology.
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My thoughts on Snowden:

The thing he deserves is a fair trial.

He ought to come back and face one.

Or...stay where he is and enjoy all the personal privacy he has there.
 
I may have said this before, but....



It's not civil disobedience if you do not peacefully accept the penalty for breaking the law you deem unjust. Although I am very grateful to Snowden for revealing what he has, I don't know about giving him a pass simply because, in hindsight, his criminal acts provided beneficial information.

If I form an evidence-based opinion that my neighbor is a serial killer and I shoot him in cold blood, I am still guilty of murder even if the police discover that I was right, and therefore, that my act likely prevented future murders.


There is the further fact that doing so and even praising him as a "hero" would have the opposite effect of deterrence. We do not want to incentivize the theft and release of state secrets whenever the thief forms a personal belief that he is doing the right thing. I despise what the NSA did under Bush and then expanded under Obama, but I also understand that we really do need the CIA to be able to keep secrets.
 
Mr Person said:
I may have said this before, but....



It's not civil disobedience if you do not peacefully accept the penalty for breaking the law you deem unjust. Although I am very grateful to Snowden for revealing what he has, I don't know about giving him a pass simply because, in hindsight, his criminal acts provided beneficial information.

If I form an evidence-based opinion that my neighbor is a serial killer and I shoot him in cold blood, I am still guilty of murder even if the police discover that I was right, and therefore, that my act likely prevented future murders.


There is the further fact that doing so and even praising him as a "hero" would have the opposite effect of deterrence. We do not want to incentivize the theft and release of state secrets whenever the thief forms a personal belief that he is doing the right thing. I despise what the NSA did under Bush and then expanded under Obama, but I also understand that we really do need the CIA to be able to keep secrets.
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Snowden did nothing beneficial. He did extraordinary harm to the US.
 
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