Oh enough with the arrogance. Jews have control over the area
now.
Who knows what will happen in the next 100 years. Muslims have had control over Jerusalem 10x that length and when Christians took Jerusalem from Muslims, it was a while but eventually Muslims took it back.
If you really want to play that game, that is fine but the fact is Jews are what? 50 million? Muslims are 1.2 billion and growing. There are 48 Muslim majority countries in the world. :shrug:
Edit: LOL @ my 50 million Jews estimate which was wayyy off the mark. There are only basically 13 million. Wtf, why aren't they having more children ...
Lol no because idiots like me fall in love with people like you and it screws things up.
On a more serious note, I would contend all three religions have equal rights to Old Jerusalem. In my version of Judaism I was not taught any one's religion has superior rights to Old Jerusalem or any of the sites. As a Zionist I was taught the same thing, i.e., that holy sites are equally as important to all 3 religions and the views I now express are those once stated by Moishe Dayan and Rabin and are typical of the Labour Zionist approach to the issue (Kadima is all over the place these days) which I admit is my bias view of how I see the situation. I support a bit of Kadima and a bit of Labour on this but I also don't think Netanyahu for a second is the rigid extremist many think he is either. I think much of what he says is designed to keep the right wingers in his coalition calm. I think what actually is said once the cameras are off and people are more candid is a lot more flexible than what either Natanyahu or Abbas would dare state in public for fear of alienating extremists in both their populations.
I repeat again, Mmost Israelis are not orthodox religious. So their concerns about Jerusalem are more pragmatic. Finding a way to assure tourists have access to all the sites makes pure economic sense. The real concern for Israel is not religious access or tolerancem its preventing terrorism and attacks against Israelis. It would welcome anything to increase tourism. Its the attack on its people it is concerned about.
It should also be ntoed again that many ultra religious Jews who getupset about certain religious sites are not even Zionists or recognize the State of Israel and as far as I am concerned, and I say it very bluntly, they are a bloody pain in the ass as are all religious fundamentalists of all 3 religions. They spit at Israeli soldiers and I have had to come to the rescue of Jwish women with unprotected arms or stupid tourists and have them spit at me and throw rocks at me. I am a moderate man but people with beards of all three faiths equally get on my nerves so excuse that bias in my response. I mean no disrespect but I think many Israelis agree with me they find all the religious extremism a pain.
Again the fact that the State of Israel had no problem ceding day to day management of the Mount reflects its pragmatic approach and was typical of the views of Moishe Dayan and the Labour Zionists when they won the war in 1967 and reflected the popular Zionist sentiment of the day-Zionism taught its people to respect Islam and Christianity not crush its followers rights to pray as they saw fit.
Yes there area few religious parties in the Knesset that do have some influence on Netanyahu's shaking coalition and could dismantle it if he doesn't tow a hard line on certain issues dealing with religion but the exact same can be said of Abbas. for the most part, Israelis when surveyed time and time again have indicated if they thought a genuine permanent peace was achievable and it meant no more terrorism, they would be willing to discuss seperation of Jerusalem or sharing of the Old City.
The friction continues with the concern that Mr. Abbas does not reflect the majority of Palestinians any more. Many feel Hamas would win a majority vote if a genuine election was held on the West Bank and I am one who believes that is a distinct possibility as is Hamas assassinating Abbas at an opportune time.
The reality is the average Palestinian wants freedom of movement to travel in and out of East Jerusalem and all over the West Bank and access to work within Israeli proper and that can not happen as long as Hamas, Intifadah, Faah Hawks, Hezbollah and other such cells remain in tact and dedicated to attacking and dismantling Israel.
We can talk until doomsday about dividing the city and entering into peace agreements but right now Israel negotiates with one man, Abbas, who hangs on to power by a thread and represents a very small minority cell in his own authority and has no popular support from his own people or the largest group in the PA, Fatah Hawks who are militant, believe in terrorism and would think nothing of killing him. The only reason fatah Hawks have not killed him is because they are a bitter foe of Hamas, not because they are supporters of Abbas.
There are as many militant Palestinians if not more then Jewish Israeli settler extremists on the West Bank or hard liners within Israel. To pretend they would settle for a divided city and live peacefully after that is wishful thinking at this point. Many believe they should have the right to travel into Israel, work there, be granted citizenship and land rights in Israel and some are not even interested in Palestinian citizenship and would prefer Israeli citizenship since Israeli Arabs have the highest standard of living in the Middle East. Its extremely complex.
Many security experts in Israel believe dividing Jerusalem would simply be seen as an invitation to put terrorists on Israel's doorstep and make it easier to continue the war to recover Israel from that place.
What would be the point of entering into any peace agreement for Israel if its an illusion, i.e., the person who enters into it with them is soon deposed and replaced by a terrorist?
It was Arafat who said no Palestinian would ever agree to anything but taking back all of Jerusalem and any agreement with Israel would only be a temporary one until full retrieval of Israel could be obtained. People forget he stated to the world the PA had bargained in bad faith all along and he made a full or Ehud Barak and Bill Clinton who offered him 98% of what he asked for.
What exactly has changed? We still have Abbas refusing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and saying he believes Palestinians should have the option to be able to go back to Israel, move into Israel pre-1967and be given land titles and citizenship. He doesn't just ask for a country on the West Bank but the right to turn Israel into a majority Palestinian population nation as well.
So just what is the point? Who at this point believes Abbas is a moderate? Well we know the U.S. and European Union do but we also know Hamas, Hezbollah, Intifadah and Fatah Hawls have all made it clear they consider him a Zionist traitor. So just what is he other then a prop for the West?
Do you really think Israel is so stupid as to not realize he's no different than Arafat?
Just who is there in the Arab world who has stood up and say, let's recognize the state of Israel and dismantle all terrorist cells attacking it? Who? Name be but one Arab leader who has ever said that?
Good luck finding someone who is considered a moderate in the Western world and who is Arab who said that. Certainly not King Abdullah in Jordan nor Mubarak in Egypt and no not even the friendly King of Morrocco.
There's a practical obstacle to any discussion of Israel's existence and Jerusalem gets caught up in that and the fact that deep down inside no one on the Arab side of the equation has ever done anything to date but attach unilateral demands to Israel in any discussion for peace. Every single statement Abbas makes starts with, he will not talk and continue peace talks, UNLESS......... then he dictates the unilateral terms and the European Union, UN and the US repeat his ultimatums.
All this does is cause Israel to entrench and become more rigid.
Right now there are a hell of a lot of people blowing wind at Israel trying to get it to loosen its grip on Jerusalem. They might want to remember Aseop's fable and how the wind was unable to get the man to take off his coat by blowing hard on it and how the Sun managed to get the man to loosen his grip.
For me I say it again-show Israel a real reason to believe terrorist attacks would stop on it and it would be recognized as a Jewish state, and the majority of Israelis who are not religious would be more than willing to give their politicians all the flexability they need to negotiate creative compromises.
Keep blowing on Israel and it will do what it has always had to do, sleep with one eye open and put anti-terrorist security concerns, first and foremost.
The vision I have is a West Jerusalem in Israel, an East Jerusalem in Palestine, the Old City an independent autonomous zone run by a trilateral religious council and policed by the IDF, free trade between Palestine, Israel and Jordan and an i.d. card allowing expedited travel for Israelis, Jordanians and Palestinians in each other's nations
and a trilateral council with members from each of these nations working on issues of mutual concern, i.e., water,
electricity, food production, transportation, policing against drug and sex trafficking and other cross border crimes.
All that would require a monumental shift in the collective psyche's of many peoples. I think if it is ever reached, it would have to evolve in slow, stages with many expected battles along the way as policies, procedures, rules, regulations are ironed out. People will necessarily be displaced in this process and require compensation.
