Japan To Commemorate Kamikaze Pilots

[TheDemSocialist]

[h=1]Japan To Commemorate Kamikaze Pilots

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Video @:Japan To Commemorate Kamikaze Pilots - YouTube

Is this about glorifying Japanese militaristic past? Or is it just about those who want to remember history? Or is it about those who want to bring about that strong militaristic, extreme nationalistic past? I personally think its simply just about history, and not forgetting history.

 

[newpublius]

Japanese didn't quite renounce their military like the Germans did. Japanese have a shrine which comemorates a couple of war criminals.

Why shouldn't Japan honor its kamikaze pilots? They were young, they were brave, they gave it their all, their targets were military, at a time when Japan was going to be under assault. We can't attribute all of Japan's military aggression to every, single soldier, can we? No.....

 

[Paleocon]

While I do believe that they should still honor their fallen soldiers in general, even if they were on the wrong side of the war, I do not believe that self-murderers should be given such an honor.

 

[Jetboogieman]

The vast majority of Japanese (especially the newest generations) do not really care about the past and many of them don't seem to be that educated about it.

My wife who was brought up in a very conservative part of Japan had no idea of the attrocities committed by Japanese during WW2 nor does she care that much either.

She sees Kamikazes as lunatics that she'll say at least.

This type of thing seems more indicative of the current governments nationalistic tendencies and I don't believe it's a good road to be going down for them, but given the fragility of most Japanese administrations it's only a matter of time before Abe is out and this behavior will likely end.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Jeeze people - they have a right to honor their soldiers just like we have a right to honor ours.

 

[Ray410]

All the money we've given to Japan over the years and they want to honor aholes whose mission was to kill Americans? That's despicable. How many Americans grew up without fathers because of those people.

The loss of respect for America is spreading around the world.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Over 4,000 kamikaze pilots lost their lives in the second half of the war and it was the most tragic part of Imperial Japan's wartime history. Rather than branding them as war criminals as was always the case in the past, their sacrifices should be properly honoured. Kamikaze pilots were the victims of the military leadership's fanatical policy and they were forced to engage in suicide missions, which were desperate attempts at turning the tide of the war after losing hundreds of experienced pilots at Midway.

 

[ecofarm]

Will it include a tribute to others that have flown airplanes into American stuff? Sort of a 'kindred spirit' thing.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

All the money we've given to Japan over the years and they want to honor aholes whose mission was to kill Americans? That's despicable. How many Americans grew up without fathers because of those people.

The loss of respect for America is spreading around the world.

???

Seriously?

 

[PoS]

The current Japanese government is pretty right wing so Im not surprised they would glorify that period. I wonder if its part of their plans to expand their military...

I bet the Chinese must be fuming and this will simply add more tension to the region.

 

[Fiddytree]

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Video @:Japan To Commemorate Kamikaze Pilots - YouTube

Is this about glorifying Japanese militaristic past? Or is it just about those who want to remember history? Or is it about those who want to bring about that strong militaristic, extreme nationalistic past? I personally think its simply just about history, and not forgetting history. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Yeah, no, it's not just remembering. Nationalism and public displays of history are interwoven. The Japanese have many problems with their public history and education system that Americans and westerners critique frequently with history and memory. To pick out a few more thematic areas (as in, don't think it's just limited to American, western, or capitalist societies) for what happens with public history you may want to check out:

History Wars: The Enola Gay and Other Battles for the American Past: Edward T. Linenthal, Tom Engelhardt: 9780805043877: Amazon.com: Books

 

[Oozlefinch]

Kamikaze pilots were the victims of the military leadership's fanatical policy and they were forced to engage in suicide missions, which were desperate attempts at turning the tide of the war after losing hundreds of experienced pilots at Midway.

Actually, the first confirmed suicide attack was on 7 December 1941.

These pilots were in no way "forced". Much like suicide bombers today, they volunteered and thought it an honor to do so. And it was not the "military leadership's fanatical policy", it was their National culture.

And do not think it has gone away. Even to this day Japan is among the nations with the highest suicide rates in the world. Large numbers of teens kill themselves for failure to get into the college they choose, a salaryman if he looses his job, or a businessman who's company goes bankrupt. Military has not a thing to do with this, they simply still to this day tends to equate failure with shame, and suicide as a way to eliminate that shame for them and their family.

You are trying to inject American beliefs (specifically yours) into a culture that simply does not view things that way.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Jeeze people - they have a right to honor their soldiers just like we have a right to honor ours.

And this is exactly the way I feel as well.

I am constantly amazed that the same people who often bitch and whine that we should "mind our own business" will then turn around in something like this and scream it is inappropriate.

It is their country, it was their military, they were their servicemen, and it is their memorial. They should have the right to do whatever they feel like. With me it would only matter if the memorial was tasteless or in poor taste. And in all my experiences in Japan, I simply can not see that happening.

And these brave servicemen should have a memorial. They all voluntarily made the "ultimate sacrifice", and none have even a grave left behind to remember them by. If you ask me, this is long overdue.

 

[Del Zeppnile]

I have no problem with it, as long as the Japanese don't get offended if we decide to commemorate the pilots who dropped the atomic bombs too.

I recall a massive uproar of protests in Japan when the Smithsonian decided to open an exhibit for the Enola Gay (the B-29 that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima).

 

[ThirdTerm]

Takijirō Ōnishi (2 June 1891 – 16 August 1945) was an admiral in the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II, who came to be known as the father of the kamikaze. After October 1944, Ōnishi became the commander of the 1st Air Fleet in the northern Philippines. While he is commonly credited with having devised the tactic of suicide air attacks (kamikaze) on Allied aircraft carriers, the project predated his tenure and was one that he originally opposed as "heresy". Following the loss of the Mariana Islands, and facing orders to destroy the U.S. Navy′s aircraft carrier fleet in advance of "Operation Sho", Onishi changed his position and ordered the attacks. In a meeting at Mabalacat Airfield (known to the U.S. military as Clark Air Base) near Manila on 19 October 1944, Ōnishi, who was visiting the 201st Navy Flying Corps headquarters, said: "In my opinion, there is only one way of assuring that our meager strength will be effective to a maximum degree. That is to organize suicide attack units composed of A6M Zero fighters armed with 250-kilogram bombs, with each plane to crash-dive into an enemy carrier... What do you think?"[3] He addressed the first kamikaze unit, and announced that that their nobility of spirit would keep the homeland from ruin even in defeat.[4] After his recall to Tokyo, Ōnishi became Vice Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy General Staff on 19 May 1945.[1] Ōnishi committed ritual suicide (seppuku) in his quarters on 16 August 1945, following the unconditional surrender of Japan at the end of World War II. His suicide note apologized to the approximately 4,000 pilots whom he had sent to their deaths, and urged all young civilians who had survived the war to work towards rebuilding Japan and peace among nations. He also stated that he would offer his death as a penance to the kamikaze pilots and their families.

 

[Goshin]

The Kami-kaze pilots are their war-heroes, if they wish to commemorate them I have no problem with that.


I will acknowledge they were brave patriots.

 

[MaggieD]

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Video @:Japan To Commemorate Kamikaze Pilots - YouTube

Is this about glorifying Japanese militaristic past? Or is it just about those who want to remember history? Or is it about those who want to bring about that strong militaristic, extreme nationalistic past? I personally think its simply just about history, and not forgetting history. [/FONT][/COLOR]

My instant take on it is that it's the Japanese people acknowledging their past and honoring those young men who were brainwashed into committing suicide for their honor and country. Four thousand of them either coerced into doing same or volunteering out of loyalty. I see nothing wrong in honoring those young men and, in fact, I think it's a wonderful thing to do.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Takijirō Ōnishi (2 June 1891 – 16 August 1945) was an admiral in the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II, who came to be known as the father of the kamikaze. After October 1944, Ōnishi became the commander of the 1st Air Fleet in the northern Philippines.

To begin with, if you are going to copy and paste, it is considered "polite" to source where you got it from.

Takijir

It is also more accurate to read his actual suicide note. The tone is very different then you are making it out to be:

I wish to express my deep appreciation to the souls of the brave special attackers. They fought and died valiantly with faith in our ultimate victory. In death I wish to atone for my part in the failure to achieve that victory and I apologize to the souls of those dead fliers and their bereaved families."

I wish the young people of Japan to find a moral in my death. To be reckless is only to aid the enemy. You must abide by the spirit of the Emperor's decision with utmost perseverance. Do not forget your rightful pride in being Japanese.

You are the treasure of the nation. With all the fervor of spirit of the special attackers, strive for the welfare of Japan and for peace throughout the world.

It was not a penance like you would imply, that they died. Simply that they failed to achieve their goal of victory against the Allies.

Context, it matters a lot. Especially when dealing with those of early Showa era Japan.

 

[Oozlefinch]

My instant take on it is that it's the Japanese people acknowledging their past and honoring those young men who were brainwashed into committing suicide for their honor and country. Four thousand of them either coerced into doing same or volunteering out of loyalty. I see nothing wrong in honoring those young men and, in fact, I think it's a wonderful thing to do.

But they were not "brainwashed". This was Yamato and Bushido in Showa era Japan. And it still exists to this day.

Suicide in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is wrong to try and place American concepts and beliefs upon others. They simply did (and still do) live in a culture where suicide is not only accepted, it is even encouraged in many instances.

 

[Cryptic]

Actually,These pilots were in no way "forced". Much like suicide bombers today, they volunteered and thought it an honor to do so. And it was not the "military leadership's fanatical policy", it was their National culture.

My instant take on it is that it's the Japanese people acknowledging their past and honoring those young men who were brainwashed into committing suicide for their honor and country. Four thousand of them either coerced into doing same or volunteering out of loyalty.

The truth is in between. The first wave of suicide pilots (Leyte, October 1944) were all professional officers and NCOs. Volunteering for suicide missions was done anonymously with out pressure and after the men had time to think about it. They were also allowed to "un volunteer" at any time. In addition, men with families were specifically told not to volunter as Kamikazes.

By Okinawa, however, the Japanese were really getting desperate and conscripts were permited or "encouraged" to join Kamikaze units. Though there were still genuine volunteers, other Kamikaze pilots, however, were coerced.

For example, volunteering was done as a unit - not in private, on other occasions men had to ask to transfer out of the Kamikaze unit, not into it. Men who refused to volunteer were shamed as cowards and assigned demeaning work such as cleaning latrines of Kamikaze units. Likewise pilots who aborted suicide missions - even for practical reasons such as a failure to spot a target were shamed in some occasions.

Of course, by western standards, these things were merely harassment. But to the Japanese shame based culture, it could amount to alot of coercion.

 

[Oozlefinch]

For example, volunteering was done as a unit - not in private, on other occasions men had to ask to transfer out of the Kamikaze unit, not into it. Men who refused to volunteer were shamed as cowards and assigned demeaning work such as cleaning latrines of Kamikaze units. Likewise pilots who aborted suicide missions - even for practical reasons such as a failure to spot a target were shamed in some occasions.

Of course, by western standards, these things were merely harassment. But to the Japanese shame based culture, it could amount to alot of coercion.

I would love to see a reference for that, most of what you are saying I have never heard of before.

And it also does not match with what is known of Showa era Japanese forces.

Remember, this was a culture that made plans that included suicide attacks from the very first day of the war. Pearl Harbor was made with the knowledge that 10 sailors would be going in to their death aboard 5 submarines. And as the island hopping campaign continued, mass suicide charges instead of surrendering of defeated Japanese forces were the norm. And as we saw on Saipan, even the civilians participated in these wholesale suicides.

Remember, Japan is a culture that is so far removed from American-European cultures, that many can not understand them at all. Suicide is preferred to defeat, suicide is preferred to surrender. And dying in a pointless suicide charge or in crashing your plane onto a ship ensured you your place in heaven beside the Emperor.

No, there was no shortage of volunteers for suicide missions in Japan. Their culture actually approves of such actions, unlike that of cultures spawned from Europe.

Japan has one of the highest suicide rates among rich countries. Cultural factors are partly at play. Japanese society rarely lets people bounce back from the perceived shame of failure or bankruptcy. Suicide is sometimes even met with approval—as facing one's fate, not shirking it. The samurai tradition views suicide as noble (though perhaps out of self-interest, since captured warriors were treated gruesomely). Japan's main religions, Buddhism and Shintoism, are neutral on suicide, unlike Abrahamic faiths that explicitly prohibit it.

Suicide in Japan: Death be not proud | The Economist

You are making the exact same mistake many others are. You are looking at suicide from the eyes of a European, not through the eyes of somebody raised on Shinto as a state religion, under the Bushido Code.

 

[Cryptic]

I would love to see a reference for that, most of what you are saying I have never heard of before.

And it also does not match with what is known of Showa era Japanese forces.

The Japanese were not as monolithic as they appear. Here is a source (diaries of Kamikaze pilots):


Kamikaze Diaries: Reflections of Japanese Student Soldiers - Emiko Ohnuki-Tierney - Google Books

Here is a good source with references to how the volunteering went to "volunteering" in some cases as Japanese deperation increased:
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/K/a/Kamikazes.htm

This Japanese pilot saw a Kamikaze pilot flying from Taiwan double back and crash into a hanger containing other planes. His goal was to save the lives of conscripts who may have been coerced:
http://books.google.com/books/about/Kamikaze.html?id=cYtekVTc7KIC

This gives some details that by 1945, not all Japanese conscripts were buying the Bushido culture of the militarists:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/619508.html

 

[Red_Dave]

The Kami-kaze pilots are their war-heroes, if they wish to commemorate them I have no problem with that.


I will acknowledge they were brave patriots.

I´m amazed that what these people where fighting for has no bearing here. As long as they were fighting for their country, the rights and wrongs of the conflict have no consequence, a disturbingly amoral perspective.

 

[Goshin]

I´m amazed that what these people where fighting for has no bearing here. As long as they were fighting for their country, the rights and wrongs of the conflict have no consequence, a disturbingly amoral perspective.

They were fighting for their homeland and culture. In particular, the widespread use of Kami-kaze attacks didn't really start until the Japanese got rather desperate and the US was closing in on the main islands.

The Japanese empire was quite brutal yes; so were the Allies, at Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. War.


I can respect an honorable enemy, even as I do my best to kill him. I know some will find that an odd perspective. :shrug:

 

[VanceMack]

All the money we've given to Japan over the years and they want to honor aholes whose mission was to kill Americans? That's despicable. How many Americans grew up without fathers because of those people.

The loss of respect for America is spreading around the world.

The Kamikaze pilot was a soldier doing a job. His target during a time of war was a valid military target. In a very real sense they made the ultimate sacrifice for their comrades and their country in a Hail Mary attempt to try to turn the tide on a losing conflict. There is honor in honoring your enemy. Certainly no reason the Japanese should not honor them. We should join them.