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Its time to bomb iran - inspections and sanctions will never work

joergan

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Written by David Kay, the darling of the Left who said that Iraq had no WMD at the time of the 2003 Iraq War, he states what I said 7 years ago when the diplomatic outreach of the EU-3 began; iran is a fascist military dictatorship who cannot be negotiated with, and war is inevitable.

A government that uses suicide bombings and terrorism as core function of its political methodology, whose sole existence is to conduct war against its own and other nations' citizens, that rapes and murders its own people for supporting democracy - cannot ever be expected to negotiate in good faith.

The sooner a war is initiated to wipe this cancerous dictatorship of thugs and murderers from the face of the map, the better.

David Kay: Weapons Inspectors Can't Disarm Iran - WSJ.com

Weapons Inspectors Can't Disarm Iran

Hostile regimes have too many ways to hide their clandestine nuclear programs.

By DAVID KAY

Tehran's belligerent rhetoric about its nuclear program ratchets up daily, while the international community continues to push for tougher sanctions. The hope is that economic pressure can force Iran to the bargaining table, where it will agree to abandon its weapons capabilities—and that such disarmament will be verified by inspections. As a former weapons inspector, I have very bad news: A weapons-inspection regime in Iran will not work.

......

Tehran has kept hidden its nuclear activities and support networks, domestic and foreign. It has refused repeated IAEA requests for interviews with the scientists and engineers responsible for large areas of its secret atomic work, and it has refused to disclose the details of its involvement with North Korea and with Pakistan's A.Q. Khan nuclear smuggling network.

--------------------------------------------------

So much for the lies by the apologists that iran has allowed intrusive inspections.... :roll:
 

Tashah

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The United States started from scratch and fabricated atomic weapons in less time than Iran has already been allotted.

I think it's far too late for an effective preemption. An attack could retard the outcome, but not eliminate it.
 

Shayah

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I think it's far too late for an effective preemption. An attack could retard the outcome, but not eliminate it.
I tend to agree. The effective window-of-opportunity has expired.
 

joergan

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The United States started from scratch and fabricated atomic weapons in less time than Iran has already been allotted.

I think it's far too late for an effective preemption. An attack could retard the outcome, but not eliminate it.
I agree, we are past pre-emption, and iran is likely far further along in its development than is known as is usually the case with clandestine work. What i seek is total regime change, with the complete disarmament of iran ala Nazi Germany, its primary source of inspiration.

Only a democratic and free iran will allow the possibility of peace in the mideast, as it would cease much of the terrorism there and eliminate the support/drain the swamp of hamas, hezbollah, and syria. Iraq would also begin to look better, as would lebanon.

Taking out this one regime would cause immense good...
 

Hoplite

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Jingoism is not a good policy plan
 

Wiseone

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If war with Iran is inevitable, which I hardly think it is by any means. Than its best to delay it until the majority of our military can be disengaged, victoriously, from Iraq and Afghanistan. There's no way the military is going to be capable of conducting operations to a scale required for success in Iraq, Afghanistan, AND Iran.
 

Orion

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I changed my mind. I think the U.S. could go to war with Iran resource-wise. The financial pit seems limitless in the U.S. as long as the treasury just keeps printing money; but it would still be economic suicide as the oil would stop flowing, and even if not, speculation would go wild.

There is no good way to attack Iran that would not cause serious reverberations worldwide, and that's not even including the nuclear factors.
 

mbig

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If war with Iran is inevitable, which I hardly think it is by any means. Than its best to delay it until the majority of our military can be disengaged, victoriously, from Iraq and Afghanistan. There's no way the military is going to be capable of conducting operations to a scale required for success in Iraq, Afghanistan, AND Iran.
That's if it's possible at all.
A sucessful strike would be very diffcult with all the time Iran has had to spread out and harden sites and prepare a counterattack.
And in all likelihood there would be hell to pay in retaliation and and economic turmoil.

IMO, a strike would have to involve an initial and massive 1000+ cruise missle strike to hit sites, defensive positions, and reataliatory ability.
Followed up with bunker-busters, etc in a large secondary conventional air attack.

But I don't believe Obama has anything like that in mind-- and Israel trying it alone seems impossible.
Tho Israel has said in no uncertain terms it can't let Iran get the bomb.
Conundrum.
 
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joergan

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Jingoism is not a good policy plan
Neither are nonsensical trolling posts.

The iraq drawdown has already begun, plus there are 20,000 troops in S korea, 58,000 in japan, and 60,000 in germany. The navy itself is barely resourced in either iraq or afghanistan.

That said, unless the US wants to see itself pushed out of the middle east, with the terrorists taking over financed and armed by iran, with oil perpetually around $200/barrel going to fund more terrorist activity against it, there really is no other option.

In my mind, the failure of Bush and Obama to eliminate iran as a threat is one of the greatest policy failures by a US president/federal government - ever.

The outcome of a nuclear-weapons capable iran operating freely in the middle east, blackmailing europe, the arab-muslim mideast nations, etc., would be intolerable. Unless one is eager to see a return to the Dark Ages, it is imperative that the iranian dictatorial regime be destroyed.
 

Hoplite

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Neither are nonsensical trolling posts.
It's only nonsensical or trolling if you dont know what "jingoism" means :)

Iran is a non-issue. They try to throw their weight around but they know that the majority of their economic success is due to the outside world. They can bluster all they want but the second they actually do something to torque off the rest of the world and real economic sanctions start happening, you'll see that attitude disappear quickly enough.
 

joergan

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Iran is a non-issue. They try to throw their weight around but they know that the majority of their economic success is due to the outside world. They can bluster all they want but the second they actually do something to torque off the rest of the world and real economic sanctions start happening, you'll see that attitude disappear quickly enough.
The thousands of people they've killed and will continue to kill, both inside iran and in lebanon, israel, iraq, and afghanistan are NOT non-issues.

I cannot for the life of me fathom how people who are supposedly so defensive of human rights can ignore the monstrosity of the suicide bombing, raping/murdering catastrophe that is iran. This is the worst regime on earth, and has been attempting to export its "revolution" throughout the middle east and beyond for decades. No less than four nations is it operating death squad/terrorist groups against, and the blood of thousands of innocent women and children are on its hands. There is no way that a thinking person can possibly give them a pass... :(

EDIT: Now i get it, i missed your avatar before...for the far left, the monstrous crimes of any anti-US regimes are always to be excused away, while the West, especially the US and Israel, are to be held to the tightest, highest standards. Please spare me the BS.
 
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Hoplite

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The thousands of people they've killed and will continue to kill, both inside iran and in lebanon, israel, iraq, and afghanistan are NOT non-issues.

I cannot for the life of me fathom how people who are supposedly so defensive of human rights can ignore the monstrosity of the suicide bombing, raping/murdering catastrophe that is iran. This is the worst regime on earth, and has been attempting to export its "revolution" throughout the middle east and beyond for decades. No less than four nations is it operating death squad/terrorist groups against, and the blood of thousands of innocent women and children are on its hands. There is no way that a thinking person can possibly give them a pass... :(
No one is talking about giving them a pass.

A desire to avoid open warfare with Iran should not be mistaken for a desire to ignore Iran. Your apparent anger makes you blind to the basic political realities of Iran. The there is a significant portion of the population that does not support their government, as evidenced by the recent unrest. This should tell you not to paint the entire country with the same brush. Attacking would simply congeal the population's hostility towards us and possibly make many Iranians forget about their dislike of their government in favor of a greater invading threat.

I advocate strategy over brute force.

EDIT: Now i get it, i missed your avatar before...for the far left, the monstrous crimes of any anti-US regimes are always to be excused away, while the West, especially the US and Israel, are to be held to the tightest, highest standards. Please spare me the BS.
I have no interest in dealing with such a binary mindset, but you seem to have issues with anger so I can find it within myself to let your vitriol slide.
 

joergan

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No one is talking about giving them a pass. A desire to avoid open warfare with Iran should not be mistaken for a desire to ignore Iran. Your apparent anger makes you blind to the basic political realities of Iran. The there is a significant portion of the population that does not support their government, as evidenced by the recent unrest. This should tell you not to paint the entire country with the same brush. Attacking would simply congeal the population's hostility towards us and possibly make many Iranians forget about their dislike of their government in favor of a greater invading threat.
Another poster with no ideas to offer outside of sitting and waiting and hoping that the same people who have been raped, murdered, tortured, and oppressed will SOMEDAY rise up and do something - who then tries to turn the post into a personal attack against me... :yawn:

I like that non-sense line "I advocate strategy over brute force."

Which means what exactly?

Sit on our hands for ANOTHER 7 years wishing and hoping diplomacy might work? No thanks, I'll pass on that one, 7 years of failed "strategy" aka "diplomacy" has accomplished nothing.

4 sets of UNSC sanctions have done nothing, if there was a real president in office, we would have bombed their military, nuclear and governmental infrastructure years ago. Hopefully, it is not too late to do so, perhaps the loser in office today might actually wake up and do something.
 

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wow, so now y'all want to start a war with iran? i think i know the reason behind this unwarranted support for an irrational war ...

back in 1997 under the clinton administration, congress approved the retardation of water. "the retardation of water? what's that?" shut the f^ck up and i'll tell you what it is! see, 95% of american homes are provided with water that sits in large reservoirs and is portioned into high intensity nozzles and turbines where it is mixed with highly saturated retardation. some scientists defend this retardation of water saying, like fluoridation of water, it has certain health benefits. but rest assured, whatever those benefits are, they are far outweighed by the plummeting of american iq. kids drink their greedy fill of this crippled retard water and either become, or approach the grey area we call the "retard region". this could very well explain the link of retardation and supporting retarded wars. in fact, professor walter bishop of the university of chicago has said at a recent press conference, "yah, retard water is probably why these kike lovers want to bomb iran". this topic has its very own chapter in his new book called "israel: dont nag you conniving fag".

luckily, the great cure to this retardation is a bastion of hope to the north called russia. the russians have gone on record to say that no gigantic jew noses have the right to breath their filthy air down iran's neck for having facilities which israel already has dozens of. and america? well, america just cant get enough of fighting for israel's wars, this is what, the third time in a decade? hey americans, youre really starting to embarrass yourselves, how easily are you guys tricked?
 

Gardener

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wow, so now y'all want to start a war with iran? i think i know the reason behind this unwarranted support for an irrational war ...

back in 1997 under the clinton administration, congress approved the retardation of water. "the retardation of water? what's that?" shut the f^ck up and i'll tell you what it is! see, 95% of american homes are provided with water that sits in large reservoirs and is portioned into high intensity nozzles and turbines where it is mixed with highly saturated retardation. some scientists defend this retardation of water saying, like fluoridation of water, it has certain health benefits. but rest assured, whatever those benefits are, they are far outweighed by the plummeting of american iq. kids drink their greedy fill of this crippled retard water and either become, or approach the grey area we call the "retard region". this could very well explain the link of retardation and supporting retarded wars. in fact, professor walter bishop of the university of chicago has said at a recent press conference, "yah, retard water is probably why these kike lovers want to bomb iran". this topic has its very own chapter in his new book called "israel: dont nag you conniving fag".

luckily, the great cure to this retardation is a bastion of hope to the north called russia. the russians have gone on record to say that no gigantic jew noses have the right to breath their filthy air down iran's neck for having facilities which israel already has dozens of. and america? well, america just cant get enough of fighting for israel's wars, this is what, the third time in a decade? hey americans, youre really starting to embarrass yourselves, how easily are you guys tricked?
Hey -- looks like you are going to fit right in, here. Just the other day, a poster with views similar to yours called Israel a "cancer" and a "monster".

I guess the greater the number of like-minded posters already here, the greater the attraction. Safety in numbers, you know.
 

Hoplite

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Another poster with no ideas to offer outside of sitting and waiting and hoping that the same people who have been raped, murdered, tortured, and oppressed will SOMEDAY rise up and do something - who then tries to turn the post into a personal attack against me... :yawn:
I am pointing out that your understanding of the situation is demonstrably flawed.

I like that non-sense line "I advocate strategy over brute force."

Which means what exactly?
It means you advocate burning a house down to keep it's occupants warm and I am advocating using the fireplace. You want to storm Iran with troops but you demonstrate incredible short-sightedness in refusing to see beyond the initial invasion.

You act like someone who watches too many movies; you seem to have this vision of tanks rolling down the main street with rock music blasting and bombs heroically exploding around them. Life and geopolitics is a great deal more complicated than Red Dawn.

Sit on our hands for ANOTHER 7 years wishing and hoping diplomacy might work? No thanks, I'll pass on that one, 7 years of failed "strategy" aka "diplomacy" has accomplished nothing.

4 sets of UNSC sanctions have done nothing, if there was a real president in office, we would have bombed their military, nuclear and governmental infrastructure years ago. Hopefully, it is not too late to do so, perhaps the loser in office today might actually wake up and do something.
I advocate seeing what we can do to aid the Iranian citizens covertly. Arming them directly is a bad choice because it lends weight to the Iranian government's argument that the entire unrest was just American interference.

The Iranian citizens need to take the first real step towards liberation, we cant do it for them.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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wow, so now y'all want to start a war with iran? i think i know the reason behind this unwarranted support for an irrational war ...

back in 1997 under the clinton administration, congress approved the retardation of water. "the retardation of water? what's that?" shut the f^ck up and i'll tell you what it is! see, 95% of american homes are provided with water that sits in large reservoirs and is portioned into high intensity nozzles and turbines where it is mixed with highly saturated retardation. some scientists defend this retardation of water saying, like fluoridation of water, it has certain health benefits. but rest assured, whatever those benefits are, they are far outweighed by the plummeting of american iq. kids drink their greedy fill of this crippled retard water and either become, or approach the grey area we call the "retard region". this could very well explain the link of retardation and supporting retarded wars. in fact, professor walter bishop of the university of chicago has said at a recent press conference, "yah, retard water is probably why these kike lovers want to bomb iran". this topic has its very own chapter in his new book called "israel: dont nag you conniving fag".

luckily, the great cure to this retardation is a bastion of hope to the north called russia. the russians have gone on record to say that no gigantic jew noses have the right to breath their filthy air down iran's neck for having facilities which israel already has dozens of. and america? well, america just cant get enough of fighting for israel's wars, this is what, the third time in a decade? hey americans, youre really starting to embarrass yourselves, how easily are you guys tricked?
Moderator's Warning:
Classic Hate Speech violation. I suspect any return from this poster will be short lived.
 

Infinite Chaos

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-- In my mind, the failure of Bush and Obama to eliminate iran as a threat is one of the greatest policy failures by a US president/federal government - ever --
US failings in dealings with Iran go a long way beyond Obama and Bush in terms of US Presidents that have tried to deal with Iran I'm afraid.
 

Vader

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The United States started from scratch and fabricated atomic weapons in less time than Iran has already been allotted.

I think it's far too late for an effective preemption. An attack could retard the outcome, but not eliminate it.
Agreed. The only way to be sure is to wipe out the current regime, the Iranian republican guard, and the Basji militia. Then ... hit Syria and wipe out the flow of weapons to Palestine.
 

Hoplite

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Agreed. The only way to be sure is to wipe out the current regime, the Iranian republican guard, and the Basji militia.
Yeah because that worked WONDERS in Iraq....
 

Vader

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True ... but when Reagan was in office, the Iranian were afraid to screw with the United States. We need those days back. Iran's government needs a dirtnap. Then again, after recent events in Afghanistan, the Taliban need to be completely anihilated. There should be NO Taliban surviors of ANY kind.
 

Hoplite

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I was following up on Tasha's comments. SHe was talking about Iran. I responded. :)
My basic point was that essentially wiping out the Iranian government would do the same thing as it did in Iraq; make the situation worse.
 

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The thousands of people they've killed and will continue to kill, both inside iran and in lebanon, israel, iraq, and afghanistan are NOT non-issues.

I cannot for the life of me fathom how people who are supposedly so defensive of human rights can ignore the monstrosity of the suicide bombing, raping/murdering catastrophe that is iran. .
So now we do or we don't care about muslims?
 
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