Its time to bomb iran - inspections and sanctions will never work

[digsbe]

I think it's time to threaten military action, but we should wait and formulate a proper military response. We don't need another Iraq mistake. However, he also can't allow Iran to go on unopposed. "Crippling" sanctions and stern finger wags are not going to work.

 

[jmh423]

Written by David Kay, the darling of the Left who said that Iraq had no WMD at the time of the 2003 Iraq War, he states what I said 7 years ago when the diplomatic outreach of the EU-3 began; iran is a fascist military dictatorship who cannot be negotiated with, and war is inevitable.

A government that uses suicide bombings and terrorism as core function of its political methodology, whose sole existence is to conduct war against its own and other nations' citizens, that rapes and murders its own people for supporting democracy - cannot ever be expected to negotiate in good faith.

The sooner a war is initiated to wipe this cancerous dictatorship of thugs and murderers from the face of the map, the better.

David Kay: Weapons Inspectors Can't Disarm Iran - WSJ.com

Weapons Inspectors Can't Disarm Iran

Hostile regimes have too many ways to hide their clandestine nuclear programs.

By DAVID KAY

Tehran's belligerent rhetoric about its nuclear program ratchets up daily, while the international community continues to push for tougher sanctions. The hope is that economic pressure can force Iran to the bargaining table, where it will agree to abandon its weapons capabilities—and that such disarmament will be verified by inspections. As a former weapons inspector, I have very bad news: A weapons-inspection regime in Iran will not work.

......

Tehran has kept hidden its nuclear activities and support networks, domestic and foreign. It has refused repeated IAEA requests for interviews with the scientists and engineers responsible for large areas of its secret atomic work, and it has refused to disclose the details of its involvement with North Korea and with Pakistan's A.Q. Khan nuclear smuggling network.

--------------------------------------------------

So much for the lies by the apologists that iran has allowed intrusive inspections.... :roll:

The notion that we must get involved in another idiotic murderous conflict against Iran is ludicrious. This is obviously another blatant attempt by the Israeli agents who have infested the US government at all levels and have complete control of the US media to get the US to fight the war to secure the realm for Israel. We have seen this movie before....When do we get to inspect Israel's Dimona nuclear program? Get a grip mate....

Thanks


"The emotional component of a provocation plays a key role in game theory warfare. With the nationally televised mass murder of 3,000 people, a state of shock, grief and outrage made it easier for Americans to believe that a known Evil Doer in Iraq was responsible—regardless of the facts.

For false beliefs to displace real facts requires mental preconditioning so that a targeted population can be persuaded to put their faith in fictions. That conditioning enhances the probability of a successful deception. Those who deceived the U.S. to invade Iraq in March 2003 began a decade beforehand to lay the “mental threads” and make the requisite mental associations to advance that agenda.

Notable among those threads was the 1993 publication in Foreign Affairs of a theme-setting article by Harvard University professor Samuel Huntington. By the time his analysis appeared in book-length form in 1996 as The Clash of Civilizations, more than 100 think tanks were prepared to promote it. The result created a widely touted narrative—a thematic storyline—supporting a “clash consensus” five years before 9-11 provided a plausible rationale for war."
Jeff Gates

Moderator's Warning:

Edited - Fair-Use violation

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Then again, after recent events in Afghanistan, the Taliban need to be completely anihilated. There should be NO Taliban surviors of ANY kind.

So.... kill every rural person in afghanistan? Do you know what you say?

 

[Mira]

The Iranian threat exists since 1979. I really cannot understand how the problem has not been dealt with properly until now.
The more I try to measure possibilities or solutions to the Iranian problem the more pessimistic I become.

 

[Winston Smith]

We need to mind our own business and let the Iranians reform their own political system.

 

[Mira]

We need to mind our own business and let the Iranians reform their own political system.

I wish I could see it that way Winston. But as a Lebanese when I see Iran putting its finger right into the heart of my country by arming and supporting Hizbollah which in turn has created a state within a state, I cannot just mind my own business.

Not even mentioning the mess that Iran has created in global politics.

I do not support bombing Iran though. It's too late for any solutions, something should have been done much sooner and not wait 30 years.

 

[Gardener]

The notion that we must get involved in another idiotic murderous conflict against Iran is ludicrious. This is obviously another blatant attempt by the Israeli agents who have infested the US government at all levels and have complete control of the US media to get the US to fight the war to secure the realm for Israel. We have seen this movie before....When do we get to inspect Israel's Dimona nuclear program? Get a grip mate....

Thanks


"The emotional component of a provocation plays a key role in game theory warfare. With the nationally televised mass murder of 3,000 people, a state of shock, grief and outrage made it easier for Americans to believe that a known Evil Doer in Iraq was responsible—regardless of the facts.

For false beliefs to displace real facts requires mental preconditioning so that a targeted population can be persuaded to put their faith in fictions. That conditioning enhances the probability of a successful deception. Those who deceived the U.S. to invade Iraq in March 2003 began a decade beforehand to lay the “mental threads” and make the requisite mental associations to advance that agenda.

Notable among those threads was the 1993 publication in Foreign Affairs of a theme-setting article by Harvard University professor Samuel Huntington. By the time his analysis appeared in book-length form in 1996 as The Clash of Civilizations, more than 100 think tanks were prepared to promote it. The result created a widely touted narrative—a thematic storyline—supporting a “clash consensus” five years before 9-11 provided a plausible rationale for war"
Jeff Gates

Moderator's Warning:

Edited - Fair Use

Such classic antisemitism -- do you use Protocals of The Elders of Zion for your reference materials or Mein Kampf?

 

[Laila]

We need to mind our own business and let the Iranians reform their own political system.

This.

It is not a British problem. UK should take a backseat in this round.
If the ME fear Iran with a nuke then they should deal with it.

 

[masonkiller]

The thousands of people they've killed and will continue to kill, both inside iran and in lebanon, israel, iraq, and afghanistan are NOT non-issues.

I cannot for the life of me fathom how people who are supposedly so defensive of human rights can ignore the monstrosity of the suicide bombing, raping/murdering catastrophe that is iran. This is the worst regime on earth, and has been attempting to export its "revolution" throughout the middle east and beyond for decades. No less than four nations is it operating death squad/terrorist groups against, and the blood of thousands of innocent women and children are on its hands. There is no way that a thinking person can possibly give them a pass...

I guess we should invade most of the middle east, much of Africa, and quite a bit of South America?

 

[deltabtry]

War or bombing Iran I think is a bad idea at this time, working within the country with her own people who for the most part dislikes it's governing body I think is a more applicable route to take and we should do so in a aggressive manner. The people of Iran already have had the taste of the 21st century and progression, so lets help them get it back. Iranians at least have the desire and taste for freedom, unlike Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[jmh423]

Such classic antisemitism -- do you use Protocals of The Elders of Zion for your reference materials or Mein Kampf?

Actually the "anti-semitism" in this matter is being demonstrated daily by the Likud/Irgun terrorists who are mainly from Poland and Russia who have controlled Israeli politics since before the inception of the State of Israel. The "Semitic" Muslim and Christian native population of this region have been systematically disenfranchised, and ethnically cleansed by these foreign invaders. The "reference material" I presented is from Jeff Gates who is a well respected US author with impressive and impeccable qualifications. For another perspective on the Israel/Palistine conflict I suggest you read "Guilt By Association", which was written by Mr Gates. To simply disparage anyone who disagrees with what has been done in the region for the last 60 years and in effect call them a Nazi is a non argument and a clearly disingenuious ploy.

Thanks

 

[Tashah]

Actually the "anti-semitism" in this matter is being demonstrated daily by the Likud/Irgun terrorists who are mainly from Poland and Russia who have controlled Israeli politics since before the inception of the State of Israel. The "Semitic" Muslim and Christian native population of this region have been systematically disenfranchised, and ethnically cleansed by these foreign invaders. The "reference material" I presented is from Jeff Gates who is a well respected US author with impressive and impeccable qualifications. For another perspective on the Israel/Palistine conflict I suggest you read "Guilt By Association", which was written by Mr Gates. To simply disparage anyone who disagrees with what has been done in the region for the last 60 years and in effect call them a Nazi is a non argument and a clearly disingenuious ploy.

Thanks

Moderator's Warning:

There is a zero-tolerance policy in effect in the ME forum. If you have a problem with a post, report it. I also strongly suggest that you tone down the rhetoric. Do not reply to this mod box.

 

[jmh423]

Written by David Kay, the darling of the Left who said that Iraq had no WMD at the time of the 2003 Iraq War, he states what I said 7 years ago when the diplomatic outreach of the EU-3 began; iran is a fascist military dictatorship who cannot be negotiated with, and war is inevitable.

A government that uses suicide bombings and terrorism as core function of its political methodology, whose sole existence is to conduct war against its own and other nations' citizens, that rapes and murders its own people for supporting democracy - cannot ever be expected to negotiate in good faith.

The sooner a war is initiated to wipe this cancerous dictatorship of thugs and murderers from the face of the map, the better.

David Kay: Weapons Inspectors Can't Disarm Iran - WSJ.com

Weapons Inspectors Can't Disarm Iran

Hostile regimes have too many ways to hide their clandestine nuclear programs.

By DAVID KAY

Tehran's belligerent rhetoric about its nuclear program ratchets up daily, while the international community continues to push for tougher sanctions. The hope is that economic pressure can force Iran to the bargaining table, where it will agree to abandon its weapons capabilities—and that such disarmament will be verified by inspections. As a former weapons inspector, I have very bad news: A weapons-inspection regime in Iran will not work.

......

Tehran has kept hidden its nuclear activities and support networks, domestic and foreign. It has refused repeated IAEA requests for interviews with the scientists and engineers responsible for large areas of its secret atomic work, and it has refused to disclose the details of its involvement with North Korea and with Pakistan's A.Q. Khan nuclear smuggling network.

--------------------------------------------------

So much for the lies by the apologists that iran has allowed intrusive inspections.... :roll:

Many people worldwide feel the same way regarding Israel....So much for the lies by the apologists that Israel is somehow above international scrutiny as it pertains to nuclear weaponry, worldwide espionage, weapons smuggling and political assassinations.....When will Israel submit to "intrusive inspections"?

 

[bub]

The United States started from scratch and fabricated atomic weapons in less time than Iran has already been allotted.

I think it's far too late for an effective preemption. An attack could retard the outcome, but not eliminate it.

1) I read that to make a bomb, you need to enrich tons of uranium up to 80 or 90%.

While it is not very difficult to enrich uranium to 20%, it is extremely complex to enrich it to higher concentrations.

I also read that Iran took over one year to enrich one or two lbs of uranium to 20% (which is the legal limit), which means that if Iran really makes a bomb, it would take decades to do it.


2) Furthermore, the only illegal thing that has been done by Iran is that they have not revealed that they were building one factory. Why would this be a casus belli, while we let Israel illegally possess nuclear weapons? Isn't that a double standard?

 

[Vader]

My basic point was that essentially wiping out the Iranian government would do the same thing as it did in Iraq; make the situation worse.

Oh... I misunderstood! My bad. I see your point. Still ... the Iranians need to be stopped from getting nukes no matter the cost. Iran's ruling lunatics CANNOT be allowed to have those weapons. It's clear from recent articles that Hezballah (a known Iranian-backed terrorist group know to fight Iran's proxy wars) has said they want nuclear weapons. This cannot be allowed either. Since the morons in Iran WILL hand those weapons over to anybody who will use them on a jew or an American; we can out on Hezballah getting them from Iran.

No. For the sake of the world ... Islam-o-lunatics do not get nuclear toys of ANY kind.

 

[Vader]

Many people worldwide feel the same way regarding Israel....So much for the lies by the apologists that Israel is somehow above international scrutiny as it pertains to nuclear weaponry, worldwide espionage, weapons smuggling and political assassinations.....When will Israel submit to "intrusive inspections"?

1. Israel is NOT run by the religion of terrorists.

2. Israel DOES NOT support terrorism worldwide (Iran does, Syria does, Jordan does, and Saudi does).

3. Israel is surronded by hordes from brainwashed anti-semintes who have been trained to hate jews since before they were born.

4. Those who don't like Israel to have nuclear toys (the existence of which has never been proven) are the same groups who hate jews becuase their imommies tell them hating jews gets them a free pass to 72 dark haired virgins.

 

[24107]

1. Israel is NOT run by the religion of terrorists.

It is deeply influenced by extremist settler's who use terrorism against Palestinian's including beating old women and young children, destroying their crops and generally trying to force them to flee their land that they have been living on for generations.

Israel DOES NOT support terrorism

they support kurdish terrorrist organizations

Israel is surronded by hordes from brainwashed anti-semintes who have been trained to hate jews since before they were born.

Israel is surrounded by people who are not to happy with Israel creating its own state from stolen Palestinian lands. google 1948nakba to learn more.

4. Those who don't like Israel to have nuclear toys (the existence of which has never been proven) are the same groups who hate jews becuase their imommies tell them hating jews gets them a free pass to 72 dark haired virgins

This is just an ignorant racist statement simple mindedly made to generalize a whole group of people, this statement sounds similar to what that proud islamaphobe sgtrock would say.

 

[Vader]

It is deeply influenced by extremist settler's who use terrorism against Palestinian's including beating old women and young children, destroying their crops and generally trying to force them to flee their land that they have been living on for generations.

WRONG. This is nothing but pro-hamas-terorist rhetoric. The injuries to Palestine's children are 1000000000000000% Palestine's fault. If the islam-o-nazis where not brainwashing school children, those children would not be out comitting hate attacks against IDF soldiers. Palestine will be a nation of ****bags until they learn to love their children more than they hate the Israelies. Until then, they get ZERO sympathy.

they support kurdish terrorrist organizations

More lies and terrorist rhetoric.

Israel is surrounded by people who are not to happy with Israel creating its own state from stolen Palestinian lands. google 1948nakba to learn more.

That land was not stolen. The jews have lived on that land since biblical times when it was called JERUSALEM. It was not until a jew-hating Roman scumbag and his armies murdered the jews and stole thier homeland (about 4000 years ago) that the land was called Palestine (Roma-Palestina).

Get your facts straight before you debate.

This is just an ignorant racist statement simple mindedly made to generalize a whole group of people, this statement sounds similar to what that proud islamaphobe sgtrock would say.

It's more truthful than you have the courage to admit. In any event, your whole post is NOTHING but pro-terrorist propaganda and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[24107]

Your whole post is NOTHING but pro-terrorist propaganda and you should be ashamed of yourself.

In your mind not being pro israel is pro-terrorist, how about those millions of Palestinians who were murdered, expelled from their homes, enthnically cleansed from their villages and made into refugees..have you no sympathy for them? you should be ashamed of yourself!

 

[24107]

WRONG. This is nothing but pro-hamas-terorist rhetoric. The injuries to Palestine's children are 1000000000000000% Palestine's fault. If the islam-o-nazis where not brainwashing school children, those children would not be out comitting hate attacks against IDF soldiers. Palestine will be a nation of ****bags until they learn to love their children more than they hate the Israelies. Until then, they get ZERO sympathy

I gave no pro- hamas rhetoric, it maybe just the racist voices in your head. You say injuries to Palestine's children are 100% Palestine's fault? this report says otherwise.

Defence for Children International (DCI) recently released a report on children in Israeli prisons. On individual, confidential questioning of children who have been or are currently in prison, 69% of them have been beaten, 81% have signed forced confessions, 50 of them had been subjected to severe torture - beatings with metal bars and limbs broken. An Israeli soldier stated to 'Breaking the Silence' in 2009: " We treat children roughly even though we know the vast majority are innocent. This is how we are trained to get information."

Palestine will be a nation of ****bags

This statement is full of childish hate and racism.

More lies and terrorist rhetoric.

O really?
Israel and the PKK want to teach Turkey a lesson - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review
I can provide more sources if you want too.

That land was not stolen

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[15][16] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times

Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Moderator's Warning:

This thread is about Iran, not Israel. Further derailing will result in a thread ban and perhaps more.

 

[Hoplite]

Oh... I misunderstood! My bad. I see your point. Still ... the Iranians need to be stopped from getting nukes no matter the cost. Iran's ruling lunatics CANNOT be allowed to have those weapons. It's clear from recent articles that Hezballah (a known Iranian-backed terrorist group know to fight Iran's proxy wars) has said they want nuclear weapons. This cannot be allowed either. Since the morons in Iran WILL hand those weapons over to anybody who will use them on a jew or an American; we can out on Hezballah getting them from Iran.

No. For the sake of the world ... Islam-o-lunatics do not get nuclear toys of ANY kind.

Iran's time as an "axis of evil" country is limited. It's people are restless and the basis of it's economy is finite.

Attacking Iran will not prevent Hezbollah from acquiring nuclear weapons. In fact, you'll actually HELP Hezbollah by enflaming anti-American sentiments in the Middle East and driving more people into groups like al-Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah.

 

[Vader]

Iran's time as an "axis of evil" country is limited. It's people are restless and the basis of it's economy is finite.

Attacking Iran will not prevent Hezbollah from acquiring nuclear weapons. In fact, you'll actually HELP Hezbollah by enflaming anti-American sentiments in the Middle East and driving more people into groups like al-Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah.

The arab world is full of brainwashed anti-American/Anti-Semites. There is no changing that. Centuries of race hate have assured this fact. Iran MUST be stopped and Hezballah (Iran's personal terrorist group) MUST be prevented from having anything more dangerous than a sling shot.

 

[Hoplite]

The arab world is full of brainwashed anti-American/Anti-Semites. There is no changing that.

Neither statement is true. The vast majority of the Arab world is filled with people who want to live their lives. The anti-Semitics are the radical religious factions that shouldnt not be construed to speak for the entire Arab or Muslim population.

Can I ask you something, what religion are you?

Centuries of race hate have assured this fact.

America endured centuries of racial hatred towards blacks, and we seem to have gotten over it. Britain was involved in the slave trade for centuries and I dont see any British terrorist groups attacking blacks in Britain.

Iran MUST be stopped and Hezballah (Iran's personal terrorist group) MUST be prevented from having anything more dangerous than a sling shot.

Iran is not a threat. Too much of their economy is tied up in global economics so any action the Iranians take against a world power effects their economy negatively and they cant afford that. Hezbollah can be countered by not doing what feeds their organization.

Force of arms will NOT help us in this.

 

[Gardener]

Neither statement is true. The vast majority of the Arab world is filled with people who want to live their lives. The anti-Semitics are the radical religious factions that shouldnt not be construed to speak for the entire Arab or Muslim population.

All the legitimate public opinion polls like Pew research say otherwise, with levels of antisemitism as high as 99% in some Arab countries.

Perhaps you should speak of what you know rather than just imagaining something and stating it as truth.