It Was a Corrupt Quid Pro Quo

[Yakshi]

What percentage of Trumpists would respond with the above if the man walked up to their loved one and punched them directly in the mouth?

75%? 80%?

There is pretty much no statement or act they will not excuse.

A punch? 90+% forgive it.

If he blows their spouse's brains out in front of them? Maybe support dips to 50%.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

When did Ukraine investigate Joe Biden's actions?

During their investigation of Burisma. It is stupid to be in a debate about the Bidens and Burisma and not have any grasp of the facts.

Look. You can shout "CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!" as much as you want, but the evidence does exist...has never been investigated...and certainly should be. And it would be a good thing for Ukraine to assist in the investigation. That is what Trump was asking for...not for dirt.

Yes, it is an attempt to smear Joe, just as asking China to investigate the Bidens is. Further, Sondland, Volker, Taylor and Zelensky all recognized that this was a political act.

 

[ecofarm]

"Dear Mr. President,

We have opened an investigation into Biden and his family stealing millions of dollars and then spending it on hookers and blow. This is our leading story.

Desperate for hurricane relief aid,
Puerto Rico"

 

[Mycroft]

During their investigation of Burisma. It is stupid to be in a debate about the Bidens and Burisma and not have any grasp of the facts.

Oh? "During their investigation of Burisma" they also investigated Joe Biden? Hmmm... That doesn't make sense, since there hasn't been any investigation into Burisma AFTER Joe Biden threatened them with not giving the billion to them if they didn't fire the prosecutor.

Are you sure you even know what you are talking about?

Yes, it is an attempt to smear Joe, just as asking China to investigate the Bidens is. Further, Sondland, Volker, Taylor and Zelensky all recognized that this was a political act.

Not true. Some of those men you mention have the opinion this was a political act. Some of them have said nothing about this being a political act. And Zelenskiy has stated outright that there was no quid pro quo and no pressure...and has made no mention about whether this was a political act.

Here you go again...instead of giving me facts, you are making **** up.

And again...you are dismissed. (see my sig)

 

[Mycroft]

"Dear Mr. President,

We have opened an investigation into Biden and his family stealing millions of dollars and then spending it on hookers and blow. This is our leading story.

Desperate for hurricane relief aid,
Puerto Rico"

Dear Puerto Rico,

Don't bother.

President Trump

 

[ecofarm]

Dear Puerto Rico,

Don't bother.

President Trump

"Dear Mister Pressa... dennt,

We've opened an investigation into Biden and it leads at 7am, noon and prime time.

Just to show we love you,
The Real News
You know"

 

[Bullseye]

It Was a Corrupt Quid Pro Quo

Not only did the president hold up aid to Ukraine; he made its release contingent on a statement advancing his own political interests.

Despite what the Republicans are now trying to peddle - It was a quid pro quo, but not a corrupt quid pro quo - I believe the corrupt intent was so transparent that Americans will have no doubts that it was indeed an illegal shakedown.

I believe the Republicans - and Donald Trump - will rue their insistence of public/televised House hearings.

Sorry, no. Being a potential election opponent of the President is not a "get out of jail free" card to avoid being investigated for questionable actions. If that were the case El Chapo would file to run for President by know. Biden thought it was worth a billion dollars to stop the investigation - hint, hint.

Assuming the investigations would be a bonus to Trump's reelection is assuming something corrupt would be found.

 

[ecofarm]

Assuming the investigations would be a bonus to Trump's reelection is assuming something corrupt would be found.

Part of Trump's demand was that state media publish "news" of the investigation. Trump would benefit immediately. He was buying fake news with the US military as currency.

 

[Bullseye]

Part of Trump's demand was that state media publish "news" of the investigation. Trump would benefit immediately. He was buying fake news with the US military as currency.

Sure, y'betcha! :roll:

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Oh? "During their investigation of Burisma" they also investigated Joe Biden? Hmmm... That doesn't make sense, since there hasn't been any investigation into Burisma AFTER Joe Biden threatened them with not giving the billion to them if they didn't fire the prosecutor.

Are you sure you even know what you are talking about?

WASHINGTON — Former Ukrainian prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko said Friday that he was not aware of “any possible violation of Ukrainian law by (Joe) Biden and by (Hunter Biden).”

President Donald Trump has repeatedly, without evidence, claimed that Biden as vice president threatened to withhold “billions of dollars to Ukraine” unless it removed prosecutor general Viktor Shokin, who was investigating the oligarch behind Burisma Group. Hunter had served on Burisma's board of directors.

Lutsenko, who closed the investigation into the gas company in 2017, made the comments during an interview on NBC that echoed what he told the Washington Post the day before about Hunter Biden, that “from the perspective of Ukrainian legislation, he did not violate anything.”

Ukrainian prosecutor says Joe Biden, Hunter Biden did not violate laws

Not true. Some of those men you mention have the opinion this was a political act. Some of them have said nothing about this being a political act. And Zelenskiy has stated outright that there was no quid pro quo and no pressure...and has made no mention about whether this was a political act.

Here you go again...instead of giving me facts, you are making **** up.

And again...you are dismissed. (see my sig)

[7/21/19, 1:45:54 AM] Bill Taylor: Gordon, one thing Kurt and I talked about yesterday was Sasha Danyliuk’s point that President Zelenskyy is sensitive about Ukraine being taken seriously, not merely as an instrument in Washington domestic, reelection politics.Read the Text Messages Between U.S. and Ukrainian Officials - The New York Times

The big picture: Gordon Sondland's additions to his House testimony are the "first admission by a senior figure who had direct contact with Mr. Trump that the military aid for Ukraine was being held hostage to the president’s demands for investigations into his political rivals," the NY Times reports."I now recall": Why Gordon Sondland'''s revised testimony matters - Axios

 

[ataraxia]

It Was a Corrupt Quid Pro Quo

Not only did the president hold up aid to Ukraine; he made its release contingent on a statement advancing his own political interests.

Despite what the Republicans are now trying to peddle - It was a quid pro quo, but not a corrupt quid pro quo - I believe the corrupt intent was so transparent that Americans will have no doubts that it was indeed an illegal shakedown.

I believe the Republicans - and Donald Trump - will rue their insistence of public/televised House hearings.

I don’t think the term quid pro quo means anything to Trump supporters. All that fancy Latin and stuff just goes right over their head. Just call it what it is: extortion.

 

[ecofarm]

Sure, y'betcha! :roll:

Do you now understand how the results of the fake investigation wouldn't matter? It was about creating fake news headlines.

You can't possibly believe the President single-handedly uncovered wrong-doing and then sought single-handedly to bring international justice. This isn't some banana republic where a cult of personality saves the day. We have professional agencies, departments, avenues and hotlines.

The idea that the President needs to reveal his superman tights and personally and single-handedly save the day is so childish and stupid it's hard to believe any American could buy it for one second.


He wasn't saving the ****ing day. He was buying fake news in state media with US military aid.

 

[nota bene]

I don’t think the term quid pro quo means anything to Trump supporters. All that fancy Latin and stuff just goes right over their head.

You don't need to be familiar with the Latin to have a pretty good idea of "something for something." :roll:

 

[Bullseye]

Do you now understand how the results of the fake investigation wouldn't matter? It was about creating fake news headlines.

You can't possibly believe the President single-handedly uncovered wrong-doing and then sought single-handedly to bring international justice. This isn't some banana republic where a cult of personality saves the day. We have professional agencies, departments, avenues and hotlines.

The idea that the President needs to reveal his superman tights and personally and single-handedly save the day is so childish and stupid it's hard to believe any American could buy it for one second.


He wasn't saving the ****ing day. He was buying fake news in state media with US military aid.

This doesn't make any sense. This has nothing to do with Trump personally.

 

[Threegoofs]

Michael Gerson spells it out well:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-ethical-anarchy-makes-us-forget-what-honor-looks-like/2019/11/07/3db2fbd8-0199-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html

But...

Note how the people around here defending Trump are considerably more intellectually and morally challenged that your average third grader...

 

[ecofarm]

This doesn't make any sense. This has nothing to do with Trump personally.

He attempted to buy fake news in foreign state media, against his main political competitor, with US military aid as the payment.

"News" of the re-opened "investigation" was to be published in state media. That was part of the deal. That's how Trump would personally benefit immediately.

He wasn't buying an investigation. He was buying state fake news.

 

[Mycroft]

"Dear Mister Pressa... dennt,

We've opened an investigation into Biden and it leads at 7am, noon and prime time.

Just to show we love you,
The Real News
You know"

LOL!!

Yeah...that'll happen when hell freezes over.

 

[ecofarm]

LOL!!

Yeah...that'll happen when hell freezes over.

"Dear Mr. President,

We have opened an investigation of Biden, Hillary and Obama and are vigorously publishing our malevolent speculation. Honestly, we don't have much else to do.

Hook us up,
Unemployed coal miners"

 

[Bullseye]

He attempted to buy fake news in foreign state media, against his main political competitor, with US military aid as the payment.

BS.

"News" of the re-opened "investigation" was to be published in state media. That was part of the deal. That's how Trump would personally benefit immediately.

LOL, sure. :roll:

He wasn't buying an investigation. He was buying state fake news.

Sure. Joe coerces, and Hunter gets paid to act as a conduit to dad, but it's Trump benefitting. :roll:

 

[ecofarm]

If that's honest, all I can say is wow. Never thought I'd see Chavez in America. Quite the hero some imagine.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

As always, you lefties bring this down to a personal level. Every single time.

I take their name calling as a compliment. They called Bush stupid and he was a Yale graduate who was in accelerated courses and an accomplished fighter pilot. Skills the losers calling him stupid could never accomplish.

 

[vesper]

Ukraine involvement with Hillary/DNC attempts to influence the 2016 election. Evidence of Biden/Obama quid pro quo for personal financial gain.

This is the predicate. This is what has been mentioned by Trump, in his phone call, and by various administration officials and by Giuliani.

It all involves actions that took place more than 3 years ago...before Trump became President. And none of it involves the 2020 election. (except in the minds of the Trump haters)

btw, there has been zero investigations into Biden's actions and there are zero investigations now...so of course, there is no "new" information. Nobody has investigated the old information.

Actually Microft, Durham is currently investigating the old information in regard to Trump Russia origin leading up to the 2016 election.

John Durham probing Ukraine as part of Trump-Russia investigation origins - Washington Times

U.S. Attorney John Durham is investigating Ukraine’s role in potential 2016 election interference, the Justice Department confirmed Wednesday, the same day transcripts showed that President Trump’s famous call to the Ukrainian president centered around that country’s possible aid in a probe of a missing Democratic email server

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Actually Microft, Durham is currently investigating the old information ...

Actually, he is investigating a debunked conspiracy theory , wasting taxpayer dollars, at the behest of orange, for political purposes.

 

[vesper]

Actually, he is investigating a debunked conspiracy theory , wasting taxpayer dollars, at the behest of orange, for political purposes.

Whatever you say Gimme, if you don't mind I will wait for Durham's report.

 

[ataraxia]

RE: the word "quid pro quo"

You don't need to be familiar with the Latin to have a pretty good idea of "something for something." :roll:

Trump supporters may know what it means at a superficial level. But they also know what it means when every single scientific organization on the entire planet is warning them about climate change. But they still don't care, do they? Because it doesn't register with them on an emotional, visceral level. That's where these people operate. You can be a policy wonk and crank out policy papers like Elizabeth Warren til you're blue in the face. It won't matter. They will think she's an elite. Donald Trump can hold a rally and throw out some choice cuss words and he's got them in the bag. You're not going to reach these folks with this fancy Latin stuff.

You have to call it what it is in the language they can understand: your president is involved in criminal extortion.

Now they still probably won't care, because they love his foul language so much. But at least you may have a better chance of conveying to them what is really happening here.