Israel's south struck by multi-focal terrorist attack

[Thunder]

Don't suppose you mind if I don't take your word for it?..

The Palestinians don't want all of Israel. They only want the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza.

 

[nleigh]

The bus had to my understanding mostly tourist, this bus is connecting Eilat with Ovda international airport (which is also an IAF base). There are also many IDF bases mainly boot camps along the bus route so soldiers going home or returning usually take it (I personaly taken this bus quite alot when I was stationed in the armour school there) , not all of them are from combatant units and therefore not all of them carry weapons.

Civilians get to carry weapons only in dangerous places (only in the west bank) and therefore no civilians are allowed to carry weapons in the area of the attack (unless they have a permit for a sidearm).

With the supposedly increase of supposedly al quid in the area, Sinai and it seems the suggested increase in their desire to turn parts of the Sinai into their own feifdom..this carrying weapons might want to be revisited.

I know back in the day, twice I got time off in Saigon and I and the few friends who went with me for the R and R were armed, naturally concealed and once stopped by MP's..they looked the other way.. possible from the unit we were in, the rank or a good MP , but it was verbotem , being armed, but one never knew..

 

[nleigh]

It seems the attack in the South was no spur of the moment happening but well planned and coordinated..a al Quida or other well organized terrorist attack..

It seems the response from the Israelis , especially the police seems to have been swift and deadly, hopefully some live ones might be captured for intelligence to find out exactly who and what ..though it also seems these are fanatical folks and are willing to die rather then be cptured, according to reports two of the three who were killed, perps , were wearing bomb vests ...

DEBKAfile, Political Analysis, Espionage, Terrorism, Security
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[Click on link to read complete article]
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"Israel tenses for Gaza strike after deadly Palestinian multiple terror attack


DEBKAfile Special Report August 18, 2011, 7:03 PM (GMT+02:00)
August 18,

Israel had its first taste of a sophisticated al Qaeda-style coordinated terrorist operation modeled on the atrocities common in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Israeli intelligence services, army (IDF) and Police were taken by surprise by the scale and slick organization of the multiple assaults that were staged near Eilat on the highway running south parallel to the Egyptian border by gunmen of the Gaza-based Popular Resistance Committees and Palestinian organizations linked to al Qaeda.

Seven Israelis were killed, including two women, and about 40 injured in shooting attacks on two buses and other vehicles and by the roadside bombing of a military vehicle. UN personnel were quickly evacuated from the Gaza Strip and Egypt locked the Gaza-Sinai crossing as Israel prepared to mete out punishment."

 

[Gardener]

The Palestinians don't want all of Israel. They only want the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza.

Could you please post a link to this completely new development to which you refer?

 

[Thunder]

Could you please post a link to this completely new development to which you refer?

within what borders did the PLO declare their independence in 1988?

within what borders does the Palestine Authority now state they seek their state?

within what borders did the Arab League offer full peace with Israel?

within what borders are the Palestinians seeking recognition of an independent state at the UN?

 

[Baltim]

This is a dreadful act by sick people.

 

[nleigh]

I

This is a dreadful act by sick people.

Agree, killing for the sake of killing and if that is what it is to be , then those who are being attacked possible just forget about any negotiations, trying for a dialogue and do all theyb can to protect them selves and come down as hard as they can on those whoa e just interested in Killing forn the sake of killing.

If it means coming down on those who support them, want them to continue the attacks just because, then to make their lives miserable, so be it..
Israel lost how many young people this day, their lives over, their families devestated..it, the attacks did nothing to further those who did the terror in gaining their wants , nothing at all, if anything moved it further away..they feel they are going to paradise? There is no paradise there is nothing after..just nothing..they want to go there so send them there.

What is important if possible , is to find those who lead these killers..the minds behind the planning, the ones who feel they are to important to do th attacks, those are the ones who have to be taken out and done away with and the Israeli's seem to be pretty good at that.

I understand there was a arrangement with the head of Hezballah, unofficial but official, I wouldn't be surprised if that arrangement is by the boards now and we see something shortly involving him..

 

[Serenity]

UN personnel were quickly evacuated from the Gaza Strip and Egypt locked the Gaza-Sinai crossing as Israel prepared to mete out punishment."

whenever something like this happens, it's a terrible feeling waiting for the retaliatory attacks. Israel has every right to defend their people from Terrorist Attacks. always in the back of your mind is that more innocent people could die. the Terrorists don't care about the ordinary Palestinians. their actions are testament to that.

so far, the only Israeli Air force bombing has been close to the Sinai border in Rafah, which is where some of the PRC officials were staying. at least 6 suspected culprites were killed there. one of them was apparently Khaled Masri who was the mastermind behind Gilad Shalits kidnapping and another was the head of the PRC.

kudos to the Israeli intelligence who were able to identify the suspects so quickly. i am grateful that they were so precise with their targets. nobody wants to see a cast lead 2.

 

[ido_]

whenever something like this happens, it's a terrible feeling waiting for the retaliatory attacks. Israel has every right to defend their people from Terrorist Attacks. always in the back of your mind is that more innocent people could die. the Terrorists don't care about the ordinary Palestinians. their actions are testament to that.

so far, the only Israeli Air force bombing has been close to the Sinai border in Rafah, which is where some of the PRC officials were staying. at least 6 suspected culprites were killed there. one of them was apparently Khaled Masri who was the mastermind behind Gilad Shalits kidnapping and another was the head of the PRC.

kudos to the Israeli intelligence who were able to identify the suspects so quickly. i am grateful that they were so precise with their targets. nobody wants to see a cast lead 2.

It seems that now we start playing the "who will fire the last shot" game.
Israel has been attacked by rocket fire all night (PRC has taken responsibility), Iron dome have done a good job protecting Ashkelon and Beer Sheba so they started aiming norther to Ashdod, 4 injured one of them seriosly injured. Meanwhile Hamas either can't or don't want to do anything to stop the rocket fire and they just released a message that they are interested in calming things down but will not hesetate to join the violence if there will be an escalation. You know and I know what a casualty among Israeli civilians from rocket fire would mean...

 

[L0neW0lf]

I wonder how many of those killed were soldiers and how many were civilians?? and why aren't those civilians who possibly died considered acceptable collateral damage? it seems to be an attack targeting soldiers so not sure how exactly its a terrorist attack.

 

[Serenity]

I wonder how many of those killed were soldiers and how many were civilians??

at least 5 of the victims have been named and were civillians

Four victims of the deadly attacks Thursday in Eilat have been identified as husband and wife Moshe and Flora Gaz, and Flora's sister Shulamit (Shula) Karlinsky and her husband, Dov Karlinsky. Both couples lived in Kfar Saba.
The four took off for a vacation in Eilat on Thursday, but never arrived. As they approached the city they were ambushed by terrorists, who fired an anti-tank missile at their car. After the missile hit his target, a terrorist approached the car and fired on the four to make sure they had all been slain.Flora, 52, and Shula, 54, both worked in daycare centers for three- and four-year-old children in Kfar Saba. The Gaz family was expecting their first grandchild in another three months. “Flora and Moshe were excited for the birth of their first grandchild, but they will never see him,” one of the couple's friends said Friday.

Yossef Levy, 57, from Holon was named earlier on Friday. Levy was returning home from a vacation in Eilat with his wife, who was also injured during the attack.

and why aren't those civilians who possibly died considered acceptable collateral damage?.

because murder of innocent civillians is never acceptable. firing bullets into 4 people to confirm the kill after their vehicle has been hit by an anti tank missile is disgusting. they have absolutely no regard for human life whatsoever.

 

[donsutherland1]

and why aren't those civilians who possibly died considered acceptable collateral damage?

Deliberate targeting of civilians and also indiscriminate attacks are unlawful under the Laws of War. At a minimum, these were indiscriminate attacks.

 

[ido_]

I wonder how many of those killed were soldiers and how many were civilians?? and why aren't those civilians who possibly died considered acceptable collateral damage? it seems to be an attack targeting soldiers so not sure how exactly its a terrorist attack.

How does it seem to be an attack targeting soldiers? two civilian busses were attacked, a private car and a family was sniped on the border when they stopped to enjoy the view.
as for your question 1 soldier, 1 police officer, 5 civilians and I still didn't see a publication on the last one.

 

[L0neW0lf]

How does it seem to be an attack targeting soldiers? two civilian busses were attacked, a private car and a family was sniped on the border when they stopped to enjoy the view.
as for your question 1 soldier, 1 police officer, 6 civilians and I still didn't see a publication on the last one.

the initial reports said the buses were mostly carrying soldiers.

 

[ido_]

the initial reports said the buses were mostly carrying soldiers.

so what if there were soldiers on the bus? there were also tourists on the bus, its a civilian bus not a military transport. And as far as I know, an attack on soldiers who are on leave is still considered an act of terror.

 

[L0neW0lf]

considering they had guns and seem to have been wearing uniforms I don't think an attacker is expected to stop and ask whether or not they were on leave, as for civilians they simply would have been collateral damage as far as official Israeli policy is concerned.

 

[ido_]

considering they had guns and seem to have been wearing uniforms I don't think an attacker is expected to stop and ask whether or not they were on leave, as for civilians they simply would have been collateral damage as far as official Israeli policy is concerned.

Considering they travelled on an egged bus line the terrorist would not have to stop and think, its pretty damn obvious.
Now considering the terrorist can't really tell who are the passengers of a moving bus on a highway, how the hell can they even tell there are soldiers among the passengers of the bus?
according to Israeli policy this will be concidered a delibarate attack on civilians, not collateral damage.

 

[nleigh]

Considering they travelled on an egged bus line the terrorist would not have to stop and think, its pretty damn obvious.
Now considering the terrorist can't really tell who are the passengers of a moving bus on a highway, how the hell can they even tell there are soldiers among the passengers of the bus?
according to Israeli policy this will be concidered a delibarate attack on civilians, not collateral damage.

Interesting news today...Hamas supposedly not involved in the attack..yet to beleive they do not know who the members of the terorist groups with in their midst are, al Quida as well as other unhappy folks who's only agenda is direct attacks on Israel..whether rockets, mortar or as we see ambushing in coordinated attacks against civiliens..killing any and all just because..Hamas is either to wek to control their own territory, hard to beleive, it's not like they don't have the forces..or feel as long as they stay out of it they will be left alone..Israelis won't go after their people or leadership and are hoping the terroris groups will be getting all the blame....don't beleive Israel will buy into their feelings , will hold them responsible for..as well as the groups and their leadership responsible and will act against all of them, as they should IMHO.

IF there is a unofficial agreement between the State and Hanmas to cool it..thn it behooves Hamas to abide by that unofficial agreement..but it seems they do it for a while then get antsy so start something, or in this case, just look the other way as others do thei attacks as the innocents, unable to control. Seems the israeli's know who is who..as seen by the immediate removing of leadership , commander and second in charge of the terrorist cell so quickly, as if they have some ione watching in real time where ever they are..and then ZAP..they are gone.

I wonder after five years , if they don't know were the Israeli soldier captured is too, just that they know he may be fitted with a suicide vest , a example of the actions taken, something similer, ready to be taken out if ANY suspecuian of rescuing him is even contemplated...hard to believe after five years , they don't know all there is to know about this young man..just my thoughts there.

 

[ido_]

The peace process with Egypt & Jordan has been highly successful.

yup, extremly successful, so successful that it seems some Egyptians want to cancel it and go to war as seen in this video posted today:


I wonder why there are no similar demonstrations to go to war with Gaza for killing 2 Egyptian soldiers

 

[nleigh]

yup, extremly successful, so successful that it seems some Egyptians want to cancel it and go to war as seen in this video posted today:


I wonder why there are no similar demonstrations to go to war with Gaza for killing 2 Egyptian soldiers

Ido I am not surprised by reaction of Egyptians on the street..even though there has been a thirty year peace, I understand the rhetoric under Mubarak reign was still very anti semetic and negative to the State and little coopeation between the two countries business wise .

The military at the higher levels may have been good and the politicals at the highaer level but any reapproachment and normalization was just not done..especially at the grass roots of people to people and travel too..so not urprised.

As long as the military is in charge and do not want a confronttion, and a big thing is the aid given to them by the US..as well as to the State..I don't see a change coming there..but to be watch ful and on guard, I am thinking those in charge in the State are stying on top of it , though there will be set backs and possible not as nuch cooperation ..though it seems that Hamas is still doing it's idiotics regsrfing the Egyptians so a kumbaya between the two, Egyptian military, Hamas ..I doubt it..good for Israel that Hamas leadership are such shlameals in relationships and knowing how to make friends and influence people.

This activity of al quida and other terrorist clls too is not going down well with the Egy[ptians, a embarrasment in how they are showing the Egyptian Military up, and it seems they are fed up and are actually, or at least on the surface, having enough of this and taking actions now. We will have to se how seriouse it is..they have lost their own militaryn and cililiends to these people and am sure they will not tolerate it..if dfor non other reason that it wioll point out heir being impotent in dealing with these folks in their own sphere of influence..it is all about loss of face..just see the decision of hard liners in israel on mending fences with Turkey..loss of face is not to hapepn..what BS that is..

I was involved in that kind of thinking from my own country so was forced to be some where I didn't want to belead good people, , lose good people unnecesarily when the war was already lost, just because those in charge were afraid of losing face..yee g-d, you want to slap those A holes silly, or do worse to them.

 

[Mika-El]

The Palestinians don't want all of Israel. They only want the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza.

That is not what Hamas has stated publically over and over again. They have made it clear they want all of Israel and for that matter Jordan. So did Yasir Arafat who made it clear he used the peace process as a ruse stalling for time and not just that-that Israel should have known all along he would bargain in bad faith and would only settle for the full return of Israel.

Now the current terrorist attacks are just status quo for Hamas. What did anyone expect once Egypt had a change upstairs.

This was only a matter of time. Everyone knew it was coming.

 

[Mika-El]

I don't think an attacker is expected to stop and ask whether or not they were on leave...

No you don't think otherwise you wouldn't have been so absurd as to suggest terrorists act in a reasonable manner and thus to engage in the above would otherwise be unreasonable.

You clearly don't think before you write.

 

[alexa]

Interesting news today...Hamas supposedly not involved in the attack..yet to beleive they do not know who the members of the terorist groups with in their midst are, al Quida as well as other unhappy folks who's only agenda is direct attacks on Israel..whether rockets, mortar or as we see ambushing in coordinated attacks against civiliens..killing any and all just because..Hamas is either to wek to control their own territory, hard to beleive, it's not like they don't have the forces..or feel as long as they stay out of it they will be left alone..Israelis won't go after their people or leadership and are hoping the terroris groups will be getting all the blame....don't beleive Israel will buy into their feelings , will hold them responsible for..as well as the groups and their leadership responsible and will act against all of them, as they should IMHO.

Fair enough your honest opinion. However according to the International Crises Group Hamas does indeed have trouble with competition from more extreme groups due to frustration at the situation not changing and people becoming more militant. According to them this has weakened Hamas and is a serious danger if we do not see the situation improving for the population of Gaza.

Radical Islam in Gaza - International Crisis Group

The below article points out the obvious that it is impossible for Hamas to be everywhere at all times and that even though these radical groups are small in number, their ability to disrupt peace is always there, just one attack can put the whole of Gaza at risk.

Hamas: Uncontested in Gaza? - International Crisis Group

I wonder after five years , if they don't know were the Israeli soldier captured is too, just that they know he may be fitted with a suicide vest , a example of the actions taken, something similer, ready to be taken out if ANY suspecuian of rescuing him is even contemplated...hard to believe after five years , they don't know all there is to know about this young man..just my thoughts there.

I think Hamas is wanting a deal to release Gilad. It was Netanyahu who stopped the deal that the French were trying to organise recently but things are looking good for his release at the moment. Hamas chief's visit to Cairo could signal imminent decision on Shalit deal - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

 

[nleigh]

Fair enough your honest opinion. However according to the International Crises Group Hamas does indeed have trouble with competition from more extreme groups due to frustration at the situation not changing and people becoming more militant. According to them this has weakened Hamas and is a serious danger if we do not see the situation improving for the population of Gaza.

Radical Islam in Gaza - International Crisis Group

The below article points out the obvious that it is impossible for Hamas to be everywhere at all times and that even though these radical groups are small in number, their ability to disrupt peace is always there, just one attack can put the whole of Gaza at risk.

Hamas: Uncontested in Gaza? - International Crisis Group





I think Hamas is wanting a deal to release Gilad. It was Netanyahu who stopped the deal that the French were trying to organise recently but things are looking good for his release at the moment. Hamas chief's visit to Cairo could signal imminent decision on Shalit deal - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

I agree with you Hamas , Fatah too, have problems in their own territorys..and if it was a isolated attack by a small group, example , the slaughter of the Israeli family by kniife wielding young Arabs, hard to know all such events, on what I think was a spur of the moment thing..or put up by a small isolated cell with little past experiences, but this attack was so well coordinated, so many moving parts of..not just a quick attack and out they go...hard to beleive something wasn't known.

I also wonder , if known how much effort would be put intion it to stop it, or if the group, al Quidab possible, the threat against them selves from them if they interfeared with, might have been to much for them..esopecially just o stop some jews getting killed, the desire just not there, evn with the possiblen Israeli response..

However, Begin did it back in 1948, Jews stopping, killing other jews , the Irgun, Stern gang..only three years after the end of the war and the end of the slaughter..for jews to go after their own fellows, evn if the politics were different, just not a happy occurence, but Begin knew it had to be that way, one force, one voice and no private armies..the problen of Hamas, Fatah, they are not yet willing to make that same commitment..

I hope your right about Shalit but I thought that was a no deal..

 

[alexa]

I agree with you Hamas , Fatah too, have problems in their own territorys..and if it was a isolated attack by a small group, example , the slaughter of the Israeli family by kniife wielding young Arabs, hard to know all such events, on what I think was a spur of the moment thing..or put up by a small isolated cell with little past experiences, but this attack was so well coordinated, so many moving parts of..not just a quick attack and out they go...hard to beleive something wasn't known.

I also wonder , if known how much effort would be put intion it to stop it, or if the group, al Quidab possible, the threat against them selves from them if they interfeared with, might have been to much for them..esopecially just o stop some jews getting killed, the desire just not there, evn with the possiblen Israeli response..

However, Begin did it back in 1948, Jews stopping, killing other jews , the Irgun, Stern gang..only three years after the end of the war and the end of the slaughter..for jews to go after their own fellows, evn if the politics were different, just not a happy occurence, but Begin knew it had to be that way, one force, one voice and no private armies..the problen of Hamas, Fatah, they are not yet willing to make that same commitment..

Well to be honest we still have 'dissidents' in NI trying to get things going again and it is very difficult in Gaza. I don't think it is a comparable situation to Begin '48.The International Crises Group sees Hamas as on a knife edge giving them enough but still holding onto power and stopping the excesses which will obviously happen if salafi jihaddists get in - think Afghanistan. I see the Salafi Gihadist as a possible difficult one to stop because of the religious ideology used. However it depends. People may just have gone there due to total frustration.

Last time I looked Fatah and Hamas had not done too much on their reconciliation. There is however growing peace resistance movements and seems growing feeling that the population is not that keen on either Hamas or Fatah.

Either Hamas and Fatah need to get together and then call elections or the people need to insist. I think their top priority ar the moment is UN recognition.

I hope your right about Shalit but I thought that was a no deal..

Sorry to hear that. I had noticed Haaretz had in the last days several articles on this. I do think Hamas is ready for this but it clearly wants a deal.

This was in June

Shalit’s family did not attend the rally, but Gilad’s grandfather, Zvi Shalit, sent a letter that was read out loud. “The people involved talk to us from time to time, caress our heads, but my dear grandchild Gilad is still rotting away in the Hamas cellars having done nothing wrong, like a common criminal,” he wrote.

Zvi Shalit went on to write that Defense Minister Ehud Barak told him he clearly supports the deal proposed by Hamas, “but that (Prime Minister Benjamin) Netanyahu is opposed and cannot be persuaded otherwise.” He also criticized Netanyahu and said his inaction does more damage to the nation’s morale, especially young men about to enlist in the IDF, than the damage done by releasing prisoners. “I fear Netanyahu is waiting to hear, God forbid, that Gilad did not survive the conditions he was kept in, so he could pay a lesser price for his return,” he wrote.

Also on Saturday, Hamas’ Izedin al-Qassam armed wing said that Shalit would not be freed before the release of Palestinian prisoners.

Hamas gave reporters a videotape showing two Israeli soldiers – Shalit and airman Ron Arad, who has been missing in Lebanon for two decades.

“We swear that he (Shalit) won’t see the light before our prisoners do,” read a sentence written in Arabic in the video.

Sarkozy vows to secure release of Gilad Shalit | Jews for Justice for Palestinians

Looks like they also may have provided proof he is still alive.