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Israelis fired 308 bullets at aid ship

An automatic weapon is generally more deadly than one that isn't.

That's some first-degree bull there. The type of a weapon shooting rate (automatic/semi-automatic/etc.) does not concern its lethality, and it is chosen on the sole basis of necessity, per situation.
As I said automatic/machine pistols are mainly used by SF units and hostage rescuing units such as the American SWAT, the Israeli YAMAM and many others, for sakes of availability.

I do not know if the IDF was clear about their nature from the beginning, but what I do know is that the media and several of the posters here kept only referring to them as pistols and implying or outright stating that this meant they were not given much to defend themselves. The fact what they were giving was what they would often carry to defend themselves in such a situation and was an automatic pistol as opposed to a regular pistol does mean a lot.

You're deliberately misleading and promoting lies at this point.
The IDF stated that the soldiers have carried pistols. The soldiers have (at least some) carried micro-Uzis. Micro-Uzis are pistols. Hence, soldiers have indeed carried pistols.

Your constant attempts to present it as something that it is not, even when this is the third time I'm forced to correct you and remind you that a micro-Uzi is indeed a pistol, may only point towards the unavoidable conclusion that you are recognizing that truth is not on your side and yet are continuing to bring up the same invalid points, on purpose, for the sake of misleading.

So once more, I'll repeat, the IDF claimed they've brought in pistols, the IDF have brought in pistols, at no part were the IDF misleading in their comments about their soldiers' equipment.

That would pretty much be conclusive evidence rather than simply compelling.

Wrong, conclusive evidence would be a video showing soldiers shooting a person when there is no room for doubt that the said person was posing no threat of life at all to the soldiers or anyone else.

My example was of a compelling evidence, a video that leaves room for doubt, yet strongly suggests something.

However, there actually was such a video in one case.

No there wasn't, but feel free to post this video where a person is seen as he is being shot on board of the Mavi Marmara ship.
Keep in mind to refer to a renowned media source.

What do you think is more likely? That a soldier who was less than half a meter behind a man who had already been shot twice in the leg needed to blow the guy's brain out to stop him from attacking another soldier in front of him with a knife, or that he was shot in the back of the head in an execution-style killing?

If likelihood is what we're speaking on then I believe it is far more likely that at least some of the activists injured/killed where shot by the activists themselves, as they were aiming for the soldiers. Could also explain a backshot, and would be most likely if only because every soldier was outnumbered by at least 6 "peace activists" lynching him and trying to kill him.

I do not leave out any possibility though, and I'm not willing to play the guessing game and pick one while ignoring the others.

Actually it is very likely that at least one was not posing any threat to anyone. Do not just presume that because a person was killed that said person deserved to die. Many people were injured. Did they all deserve to be shot? In these sorts of situations people can be shot accidentally and even die as a result as well as people being shot intentionally due to some misunderstanding. Simply saying the people who were killed were posing a threat is irrational.

I've seen a video where nearly a hundred people are attacking soldiers, so yes, it is very likely that a huge percentage if not all of the injured and killed individuals have indeed posed one threat or another. I understand that, according to the soldiers of course, the fire was very selective, and that they've mainly shot people in the legs.
Nearly all of the activists who were injured were released 2-4 days after they were taken to the Israeli hospitals, and the red cross said that at the time that their situation is very good, so leg injuries are very likely.

Well, find the article. Them being members of IHH proves essentially nothing.

Not at all, the meeting between the IHH members and Hamas was noted in the Jihad website as a meeting between two organizations.

If dressing up like a soldier and posing with a gun for a picture makes someone a blood-thirsty terrorist then my town must be crawling with blood-thirsty terrorists.

If your town is filled with people who dress up like Hamas terrorist militants, take pictures with the Hamas terrorist militants while holding their AK-47s, rocket launchers, etc, while they are praising the terrorist organization of Hamas and its actions as "resistance", then yes, your town is undoubtedly filled with blood-thirsty terrorist-supporters.
 
I don't think that anyone deserves to die.

I think some people deserve to get shot even if it is likely to kill them, such as terrorists that are in the direct act of trying to kill people. Shoot em!

If dressing up like a soldier and posing with a gun for a picture makes someone a blood-thirsty terrorist then my town must be crawling with blood-thirsty terrorists.

Dressing up like a blood-thirsty terrorist and posing with them and their weapons pretty much does make someone a blood-thirsty terrorist (Jane Fonda was a stinking commie). Besides, do you think Hamas provides photo opportunities for tourists? It's like going to Disney Land and getting a photo with Mickey? Where's Farfur?

Your town dresses up in Hamas uniforms?? Anyway, one refering to terrorists as soldiers is telling enough; there's no getting through to such twisted reasoning and ideological myopia.
 
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I have been explaining. Not only are these weapons not mere pistols they are exactly what Israeli soldiers would be carrying when repelling from a helicopter. You yourself argued before that Israeli soldiers boarded with "only a sidearm" as some sort of proof that they were going easy on these people who then violently tried to kill them.

This is simply about dispelling yet another myth being propagated in support of Israel regarding the flotilla.

The mini-Uzi is no different than a Jeriho, it is a sidearm not an assault rifle or SMG.



We have very compelling evidence that at least one definitely did not deserve it, in that he was not armed in any way at any time. Indeed his may even be the death that incited the more extreme violence from the people on the flotilla. There is also some disturbing evidence of execution-style killings by Israeli soldiers.

I think that most who were shot and killed probably had been posing some real or perceived threat to Israeli soldiers, but one also has to understand these situations always create problems. When in the heat of the moment a soldier does not usually have time or at least does not feel as if there is time to discern a legitimate threat from something that merely appears threatening when it is not. Then there are some soldiers who fail to control their emotions in such a situation and commit acts that are not in any way legitimate acts of self-defense.

I know of this "evidence" from the story of the same people who provoked the whole incident... you cannot judge those without hearing both versions of the story and I that you will get a more balanced picture from the investigation that has co-operation of both sides. In a situation like this someone can also get shot by a mistake
 
1-They had no business attacking a ship in international waters.
2-A man wounded by gunshot cannot "lie on a soldier and try to stab"
3- 9 dead on one side, 0 on the other=disproportional response as usual.

Yes, they were deserved to be shot, not to die...
 
That's some first-degree bull there. The type of a weapon shooting rate (automatic/semi-automatic/etc.) does not concern its lethality, and it is chosen on the sole basis of necessity, per situation.

It certainly does have an impact. You can't spray an area with bullets using a typical handgun. Also, there is likely to be less significant collateral damage when the weapon being used is not automatic.

You're deliberately misleading and promoting lies at this point.
The IDF stated that the soldiers have carried pistols. The soldiers have (at least some) carried micro-Uzis. Micro-Uzis are pistols. Hence, soldiers have indeed carried pistols.

Your constant attempts to present it as something that it is not, even when this is the third time I'm forced to correct you and remind you that a micro-Uzi is indeed a pistol, may only point towards the unavoidable conclusion that you are recognizing that truth is not on your side and yet are continuing to bring up the same invalid points, on purpose, for the sake of misleading.

So once more, I'll repeat, the IDF claimed they've brought in pistols, the IDF have brought in pistols, at no part were the IDF misleading in their comments about their soldiers' equipment.

It is one thing to say "pistol" and another to not clarify what kind of pistol. This would be the same as saying "rifle" without clarifying what kind of rifle. There is a huge difference and ultimately many seized upon the unqualified use of the term "pistol" to claim something that is ultimately wrong.

Wrong, conclusive evidence would be a video showing soldiers shooting a person when there is no room for doubt that the said person was posing no threat of life at all to the soldiers or anyone else.

My example was of a compelling evidence, a video that leaves room for doubt, yet strongly suggests something.

I did not say it would be entirely conclusive, however it would be much more than simply compelling.

No there wasn't, but feel free to post this video where a person is seen as he is being shot on board of the Mavi Marmara ship.
Keep in mind to refer to a renowned media source.

This seems to indicate you know of the video, but are imposing conditions you know will not allow the video to be noted. The video by itself would not be compelling, but with the various other facts we have it becomes compelling.

If likelihood is what we're speaking on then I believe it is far more likely that at least some of the activists injured/killed where shot by the activists themselves, as they were aiming for the soldiers.

The general cited in the article mentions one of the machine pistols being used on the soldiers. Evidence indicates only that three were taken and various eyewitness testimonies corroborate that at least one was taken only to be emptied. In that circumstance with the one gun being mentioned, as well as the nature of the gun, it provides an explanation for a number of things. Soldiers claimed to have been hit with automatic weapons fire as I recall and since we are talking about a machine pistol it seems likely this one weapon accounts for that. That one weapon, however, would no adequately explain many, if any, of the wounds we are talking about.

You think it is far more likely because you do not want to believe that Israeli soldiers might cross a line, even though you know Israeli soldiers have done just that many times before. It is very hard to see how a person would accidentally fire once into the back of someone's head while less than half a meter away.

I do not leave out any possibility though, and I'm not willing to play the guessing game and pick one while ignoring the others.

I do not leave out possibilities either, but it seems you are definitely giving greater weight to less likely possibilities because they are more comforting to you.

I've seen a video where nearly a hundred people are attacking soldiers, so yes, it is very likely that a huge percentage if not all of the injured and killed individuals have indeed posed one threat or another.

It is not very likely at all, because we have very strong evidence that at least one of the people killed did not pose a threat. I am not arguing that this inherently makes the use of violence inappropriate. However, trying to write off all the dead and wounded as violent extremists who deserved what they got is just wrong, not to mention unreasonable.

Not at all, the meeting between the IHH members and Hamas was noted in the Jihad website as a meeting between two organizations.

I really don't care what Islamic Jihad says. They have a variety of reasons for wanting to make such a claim and ultimately that does not prove anything either. Many humanitarian organizations would want the blockade almost entirely lifted and IHH would naturally have to work with organizations that have authority there. Some being politically inclined to support those organizations and feeling a sense of solidarity with them indicates nothing.

If your town is filled with people who dress up like Hamas terrorist militants, take pictures with the Hamas terrorist militants while holding their AK-47s, rocket launchers, etc, while they are praising the terrorist organization of Hamas and its actions as "resistance", then yes, your town is undoubtedly filled with blood-thirsty terrorist-supporters.

I was making a comparison to the fact many rural towns in the United States like mine are full of people who like toting around guns and wearing camo i.e. dressing up like soldiers. Them doing it indicates certainly that they support Hamas and Islamic Jihad in their fight against Israel, but to take that fact and us it to suggest people from the same organization are going to try and engage in a deadly fight with Israel themselves is just absurd. It would be no more legitimate than me saying all Israeli soldiers are war criminals simply because some have engaged in war crimes.

The mini-Uzi is no different than a Jeriho, it is a sidearm not an assault rifle or SMG.

I am not disputing whether it is technically a sidearm or technically a pistol, but rather whether this was being stated in a manner that mislead or deceived people. Here is a video of someone firing the Micro-Uzi:



This one shows a person firing a Jericho pistol:



Both of these weapons might be considered sidearms, but failing to note the considerable differences between them does create a bias towards your position. Someone hearing or seeing the former weapon fire will view the situation from an entirely different perspective than if it concerned the latter weapon.

I know of this "evidence" from the story of the same people who provoked the whole incident... you cannot judge those without hearing both versions of the story and I that you will get a more balanced picture from the investigation that has co-operation of both sides. In a situation like this someone can also get shot by a mistake

If you read what I said, I clearly do think the instance I mentioned was a mistake of sorts. Not that the soldier who fired did not intend to fire, but rather that the soldier mistook a non-threatening action for a threatening one. In fact, some testimony suggests this was the individual shot by a soldier in the helicopter before the other soldiers repelled down and as such may indicate the particularly violent resistance was sparked off by that incident.
 
1-They had no business attacking a ship in international waters.
2-A man wounded by gunshot cannot "lie on a soldier and try to stab"
3- 9 dead on one side, 0 on the other=disproportional response as usual.

It seems from this response that you would have been if there had some Israeli deaths to avoid this problem of proportionality. Just wondering how many dead Israelis would it take in this instance for you to be satisfied?
 
Both of these weapons might be considered sidearms, but failing to note the considerable differences between them does create a bias towards your position. Someone hearing or seeing the former weapon fire will view the situation from an entirely different perspective than if it concerned the latter weapon.

I already noted the difference, as I see it its not considerable.

I do not understand whats the difference besides the fact that Uzi can fire in full automatic mode that is rarely used... they even have the same caliber as far as I know...

First thing they taught us in boot camp is to forget from the full auto mode in our assault rifle this mode is nice for hollywood movies but its not practical for use, I find it very hard to believe they used this mode on the ship and that leaves us with a semi-auto 9mm pistol, no different than the Jeriho... they even share the same cartridges.

I agree with your assesment that this could be the reason the soldiers encountered automatic fire from the passengers, if this is the case it can also explain multiple gunshot wounds on the person who used the snatched pistol.
 
It seems from this response that you would have been if there had some Israeli deaths to avoid this problem of proportionality. Just wondering how many dead Israelis would it take in this instance for you to be satisfied?

Well then you're reading between the lines. If you're interested in my opinion, I don't believe that anyone deserves to die.
You know the saying though "once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is military action"
If these guys were shot in order to be be nutralised, it's a bit disturbing to discover that 30 bullets were found in 9 corpses.
 
It certainly does have an impact. You can't spray an area with bullets using a typical handgun. Also, there is likely to be less significant collateral damage when the weapon being used is not automatic.

They don't spray an area, the weapon is mostly used in a semi-auto mode especially in close combat, and you actually can spray an area with a typical handgun.
Bottom line, if they wanted to go crazy and shoot everywhere, they could do it with either a jericho or a micro-Uzi or any other type of sidearm.

It is one thing to say "pistol" and another to not clarify what kind of pistol. This would be the same as saying "rifle" without clarifying what kind of rifle. There is a huge difference and ultimately many seized upon the unqualified use of the term "pistol" to claim something that is ultimately wrong.

Exactly, it would be like saying that they've carried an assault rifle without saying whether it is an AK-47, a G3, an M16, etc. There is no misleading here, it seems like you're desperately trying to hang onto absurd and non-existent details to comfort yourself when you know that the IDF has not lied about anything.

I did not say it would be entirely conclusive, however it would be much more than simply compelling.

If it is compelling it is compelling and if it is conclusive it is conclusive, and what you claim to be "evidence" is, as I've shown with my examples, neither conclusive nor compelling. One cannot even favor one conclusion over another from the knowledge that a person was shot from close range in the back.

This seems to indicate you know of the video, but are imposing conditions you know will not allow the video to be noted. The video by itself would not be compelling, but with the various other facts we have it becomes compelling.

I don't know what you're talking about, or more likely what video you're talking about. I've seen no video where a person is being shown as he is shot on the Mavi Marmara, so please unless such video does not exist and you're merely making up evidence to try and base your ridiculous claims do post this video.

The general cited in the article mentions one of the machine pistols being used on the soldiers. Evidence indicates only that three were taken and various eyewitness testimonies corroborate that at least one was taken only to be emptied. In that circumstance with the one gun being mentioned, as well as the nature of the gun, it provides an explanation for a number of things. Soldiers claimed to have been hit with automatic weapons fire as I recall and since we are talking about a machine pistol it seems likely this one weapon accounts for that. That one weapon, however, would no adequately explain many, if any, of the wounds we are talking about.

Actually the soldiers have claimed that they were being shot at with assault rifles, and in the Eiland committee conclusion it was mentioned that due to the wounds in the soldiers' bodies and to objects that were left on board of the ship it seems that 2 assault rifles were indeed brought on the ship by the activists, used against the soldiers, and thrown once the violence was close to an end.

You think it is far more likely because you do not want to believe that Israeli soldiers might cross a line, even though you know Israeli soldiers have done just that many times before. It is very hard to see how a person would accidentally fire once into the back of someone's head while less than half a meter away.

It is actually very easy to see as I've explained before, there are countless of possible situations when this happens, and we were speaking on likely situations so this is one of them.

I do not leave out possibilities either, but it seems you are definitely giving greater weight to less likely possibilities because they are more comforting to you.

That's quite ridiculous, it is you who are arguing that they were executed while it is me who is leaving all possibilities open.
You are not merely giving a greater weight, but are completely taking to the belief that soldiers have executed individuals who pose no threat on board of that ship, if only to comfort yourself.

It is not very likely at all, because we have very strong evidence that at least one of the people killed did not pose a threat.

I'm still waiting for this evidence, as explained above you have no such evidence.

I really don't care what Islamic Jihad says. They have a variety of reasons for wanting to make such a claim and ultimately that does not prove anything either.

Actually they have no sane reason to shoot their own leg like that by going against Islamist anti-Israeli propaganda such as the one surrounding the flotilla, they removed the pictures and articles a short time after uploading them to their website and have got angry at YNET for exposing those pictures.
Besides that those are authentic pictures, and the ones shown in them are indeed Turkish activists from the IHH.

It is interesting to see however how you go from one argument to another once the former is being destroyed, instead of simply accepting the truth.

Many humanitarian organizations would want the blockade almost entirely lifted and IHH would naturally have to work with organizations that have authority there. Some being politically inclined to support those organizations and feeling a sense of solidarity with them indicates nothing.

Well as it was explained to you by praising the terrorist organization of Hamas, holding weapons of Hamas, wearing clothes of Hamas and taking pictures with Hamas soldiers, those people are most likely pro-Hamas, pro-terrrorist, and due to their words in their praising of Hamas' actions, blood-thirsty animals, nothing less and nothing more.
It exposes the true agenda behind the IHH which was also behind the violence on board of the Mavi Marmara, an agenda that was obvious to Israel all the time yet was constantly and strongly denied by the anti-Israeli propaganda machine.

I was making a comparison to the fact many rural towns in the United States like mine are full of people who like toting around guns and wearing camo i.e. dressing up like soldiers. Them doing it indicates certainly that they support Hamas and Islamic Jihad in their fight against Israel, but to take that fact and us it to suggest people from the same organization are going to try and engage in a deadly fight with Israel themselves is just absurd.

That has to be the silliest comparison I've ever seen. I mean, what? Because they're wearing soldiers' uniforms (American soldiers most likely) then it means they support Hamas? What the ****? :confused:

If they were taking picture with Hamas soldiers while they are wearing Hamas' uniforms and holding Hamas' weapons and praising Hamas' actions, then it can be said that they are strongly supportive of the terrorist organization of Hamas.

It would be no more legitimate than me saying all Israeli soldiers are war criminals simply because some have engaged in war crimes.

Those folks have engaged in support for terrorism while representing their organization. It was a diplomatic meeting between two organizations, the Gazan terror organization of Hamas, and the Turkish terror-supporting organization of IHH.

I am not disputing whether it is technically a sidearm or technically a pistol, but rather whether this was being stated in a manner that mislead or deceived people.

There is no deception in saying that you have a sidearm when you indeed have a sidearm. Micro-Uzi is by no means less of a sidearm simply because it is automatic, sidearms can be automatic and they can be semi-automatic and they can be anything, they're all however sidearms, and by admitting to that fact one sees that there was zero amount of deception in the IDF words, there was only the description of what was confirmed to be the truth, that soldiers were equipped with sidearms.

Your constant attempts to deceive and mislead about the IDF words and intentions happen to be quite desperate as they depend entirely on your willing to believe that the IDF has misled about its soldiers' equipment when indeed they have not.

Both of these weapons might be considered sidearms, but failing to note the considerable differences between them does create a bias towards your position. Someone hearing or seeing the former weapon fire will view the situation from an entirely different perspective than if it concerned the latter weapon.

But if the person using either weapons in the video would be telling the youtube dwellers that it is a sidearm, he would not be misleading them, even if the video would not have shown the sidearm in action, as it is indeed a sidearm. Hence no deception, like no deception would exist if he would telling them that he has an assault rifle and then showed himself shooting with a G3, an M16, an AK-47, etc.
 
Well then you're reading between the lines. If you're interested in my opinion, I don't believe that anyone deserves to die.
You know the saying though "once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is military action"
If these guys were shot in order to be be nutralised, it's a bit disturbing to discover that 30 bullets were found in 9 corpses.

3 bullets each for 6 people and 4 bullets each for 3 people is very likely when you shoot to neutralize a life threatening individual.
Besides the possibility of more than one soldier shooting the same life threatening individual at the same time, you usually need 3-4 bullets to bring a person down rapidly, especially if he's in the middle of shooting another group of soldiers with a gun.
 
It is one thing to say "pistol" and another to not clarify what kind of pistol. This would be the same as saying "rifle" without clarifying what kind of rifle. There is a huge difference and ultimately many seized upon the unqualified use of the term "pistol" to claim something that is ultimately wrong.

You apparently lack any military experience or knowledge beyond social chattering, and have missed the point. Being full-auto does not make a weapon more lethal. Given the same number of bullets and even double-tapping, I'd kill two or three times as many people as a spray in very few additional seconds. If you want to kill people, and kill them fast... you semi-auto well-aimed shots (or three-round bursts). Sprays don't kill a large number of people per bullet. Full-auto is for supressive fire. In a military environment, it is defensive. A commando doesn't put his hand only around and hose a hallway each time he turns a corner, and he doesn't spray a target-rich environment (thus wasting valuable bullets).

I can tag someone at 300m (~75%) with a rifle. I can't hit near someone at 300m with an uzi. That's the point.



Sure, close quarters called for a small weapon but a bigger punch should have been carried on-board. I still say they were under-armed. Or the birds should have fired suppression; I'll bet they requested to. Those terrorists should have been made to hit-the-deck as if god was speaking to them from the mountain.
 
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3 bullets each for 6 people and 4 bullets each for 3 people is very likely when you shoot to neutralize a life threatening individual.
Besides the possibility of more than one soldier shooting the same life threatening individual at the same time, you usually need 3-4 bullets to bring a person down rapidly, especially if he's in the middle of shooting another group of soldiers with a gun.

The authopsie results proove otherwise.
 
How does an autopsy establish intent?!

It was close combat with sides intermixed; back shots and side shots are going to happen, at close range. Accidents could happen, but that's legal in such a situation (combat). The terrorists got their asses kicked and should have got some more. Get over it.
 
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How does an autopsy establish intent?!

It was close combat with sides intermixed; back shots and side shots are going to happen, at close range. Accidents could happen, but that's legal in such a situation (combat). The terrorists got their asses kicked and should have got some more. Get over it.

like zis:

The forensic evidence that establishes that fact is "tattooing around the wound in his face," indicating that the shot was "delivered at point blank range." The report describes the forensic evidence as showing that "the trajectory of the wound, from bottom to top, together with a vital abrasion to the left shoulder that could be consistent with the bullet exit point, is compatible with the shot being received while he was lying on the ground on his back."

UN Report: American Citizen Executed By Israelis During Mavi Marmara Raid | Investigations | AlterNet


and zis:

The results also reveal how close the fighting was. Dr Haluk Ince, chair of Turkey's council of forensic medicine (ATK), said: "Approximately 20cm away was the closest. In only one case was there only one entrance wound. The other eight have multiple entrance wounds. [The man killed by a single shot] was shot just in the middle of the forehead with a distant shot."

Gaza flotilla attack: Autopsies reveal intensity of Israeli military force | World news | The Guardian
 
The guy could be fighting from his back (wrestling, etc) and shot by the soldier wrestling with him or someone else.

This is ridiculous and I'm just happy that people like Apoc have the patience to put up with it so this board doesn't get overrun by terrorist-inspired, conspiracy theory quality evidence.

The first "evidence" (in the form of a title - I'm sure the UN report did not claim anyone was executed) is from alternet.org. The second only shows that the fighting was close range.
 
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The guy could be fighting from his back (wrestling, etc) and shot by the soldier wrestling with him or someone else.

This is ridiculous and I'm just happy that people like Apoc have the patience to put up with it so this board doesn't get overrun by terrorist-inspired, conspiracy theory quality evidence.

The first "evidence" (in the form of a title) is from alternet.org. The second only shows that the fighting was close range.

Is that a answer to my post ?
 
Yes.

Your first evidence is no more than a dishonest title meant to mislead people regarding the contents of the UN report. It proves only that someone was shot at close range while probably on their back.

Your second evidence only proves the fighting was close and fierce.


This is just like claiming that steel cannot be melted by jet fuel, therefore...

You have a disconnect. You've eliminated the possibility that Isreal acted reasonably and will jump through hoops while others laugh to keep that option off the table. You seek CT-type evidence to support your fragile and disconnected perspective.
 
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The first "evidence" (in the form of a title - I'm sure the UN report did not claim anyone was executed) is from alternet.org. The second only shows that the fighting was close range.

from the first article
The report (meaning the UN report) reveals that Dogan, the 19-year-old US citizen of Turkish descent, was filming with a small video camera on the top deck of the Mavi Marmara when he was shot twice in the head, once in the back and in the left leg and foot and that he was shot in the face at point blank range while lying on the ground.
 
In close combat with intermixed groups, it is possible to be shot plenty of times and to fight while on one's back.

Just stop it.
 
In close combat with intermixed groups, it is possible to be shot plenty of times and to fight while on one's back.

Just stop it.

of course ... and my grandmother rode a bicycle :roll:
 
The guy could be fighting from his back (wrestling, etc) and shot by the soldier wrestling with him or someone else.

This is ridiculous and I'm just happy that people like Apoc have the patience to put up with it so this board doesn't get overrun by terrorist-inspired, conspiracy theory quality evidence.

I'm actually looking for a substitude. It tires your mind after a while since the same invalid points are simply being repeated over and over again and you need to give the same old answer and point to the same old facts and logic.

The first "evidence" (in the form of a title - I'm sure the UN report did not claim anyone was executed) is from alternet.org. The second only shows that the fighting was close range.

It's also not the UN report but the UNHRC report. The UN inquiry is still on-going.
 
of course ... and my grandmother rode a bicycle :roll:

It seems reasonable for a grandmother to ride a bicycle; I've seen them do it myself. So... what the hell does that mean? I didn't think you could be less coherent, wow.


I suspect that some kids who are supposed to be doing home-schooling stuff are messing around on the internets.
 
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like zis:

The forensic evidence that establishes that fact is "tattooing around the wound in his face," indicating that the shot was "delivered at point blank range." The report describes the forensic evidence as showing that "the trajectory of the wound, from bottom to top, together with a vital abrasion to the left shoulder that could be consistent with the bullet exit point, is compatible with the shot being received while he was lying on the ground on his back."

FYI, the official international investigation is underway. It has not been concluded.
 
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