Israel Urges U.S. to Join War with Iran to Eliminate Nuclear Program

[Apocalypse]

Israel doesn't get to have a say on whether or not the United States goes to war.
There is no mention of Israel as a decision-making body in the United States Constitution.

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution says that the US Congress are the ones who decide whether America goes to war or not.

Why did you quote my post as if it said anything of that sort?

 

[Allan]

If we go to war with Iran we will also be going to war with China and Russia.

I'm not so sure China would get very involved. The biggest threat to the Party's existence would be economic turmoil that causes widespread unemployment.

In a US conflict with China the world would back the US by imposing sanctions.

Chinese leaders are aware that the next uprising might not be so easy to contain.

 

[Slartibartfast]

After thinking about it, Iran supplies a lot of arms to Russia and if their government is taken out, that could potentially help Ukraine. Maybe that's not a bad thing.

 

[sanman]

I'm not so sure China would get very involved. The biggest threat to the Party's existence would be economic turmoil that causes widespread unemployment.

In a US conflict with China the world would back the US by imposing sanctions.

Of course not - the world buys from China, trades with China, so why would they suddenly stop doing that because the US says so?
No UN-based sanctions are possible, since China is a veto-wielding member of the UN Security Council. Duh.

Chinese leaders are aware that the next uprising might not be so easy to contain.

China is a police state with full control. Nobody's doing any uprisings in China.

Why you need more war, Allan? Did you support the illegal invasion of Iraq, too?
Why do you want a sequel to that?

 

[Allan]

No UN-based sanctions are possible, since China is a veto-wielding member of the UN Security Council. Duh.

Russia is sanctioned and they are also a veto member of the council. Duh.

China is a police state with full control. Nobody's doing any uprisings in China.

China routinely has protests and even riots in the 2nd tier cities and rural areas. They're not North Korea and certainly don't have "full control".

Why you need more war, Allan? Did you support the illegal invasion of Iraq, too?
Why do you want a sequel to that?

Gibberish.

 

[sanman]

Russia is sanctioned and they are also a veto member of the council. Duh.

Just sanctioned by the US - the rest of the world trades with them.
More countries buy goods from China than buy goods from the US.
The US mainly trades in debt these days, relying on the US dollar. That's just paper trade, more than real goods & services.
That's a problem Trump is trying to change, not that you care to see that succeed.

China routinely has protests and even riots in the 2nd tier cities and rural areas. They're not North Korea and certainly don't have "full control".

China has more control than North Korea does, because China is a technically advanced police state.

Gibberish.

Did you support the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003? If you do, then don't complain about Russia's special military operation in Ukraine, after US did one in Iraq.
Now you want to see a new US military operation in Iran, so that's yet another reason for seeing you as hypocritical in regards to Russian action against Ukraine.

"It's fine when we do it! Only when others do it, then it's bad!"

 

[Allan]

China has more control than North Korea does, because China is a technically advanced police state.

Absolutely not even close. I worked and lived there for years remember.

 

[Allan]

Did you support the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003?

No. In fact I referred to it as a crime against humanity.

I'll guess that you're thinking of George W. Yes his incursion into Iraq would also meet the definition, in my opinion.

You're really struggling here.

 

[sanman]

No. In fact I referred to it as a crime against humanity.

Yet you want a sequel to this crime against humanity?
And are you aware of Victoria Nuland's leading role in orchestrating this crime against humanity in the Bush-Cheny whitehouse?
Are you aware that she orchestrated this with the goal of slaying Israel's enemies, starting with bigger ones like Saddam?
Are you also aware that she then continued her role by next going after Qadafi in Libya and Assad in Syria, orchestrating uprisings there to overthrow their govts?
Although her Libya regime change operation succeeded, it resulted in the death of the US ambassador there.
But her effort in Syria was unsuccessful, because PUTIN deployed the RUSSIAN military there, to save Assad.
That's why she went after PUTIN/RUSSIA next, using Ukraine to do it.

I'll guess that you're thinking of George W. Yes his incursion into Iraq would also meet the definition, in my opinion.

You're really struggling here.

Are you arguing with yourself, accusing yourself of struggling? I think you're struggling with some kind of internal conflict or confusion, not knowing what you're arguing for anymore, or why.
It's all become a blur to you.

 

[Allan]

Yet you want a sequel to this crime against humanity

I do? Where do you see this?

 

[sanman]

I do? Where do you see this?

Oh, pardon me - do you want to see the US go to war with Iran?
(hint: Victoria Nuland does, just like she wanted to go to war over Ukraine, just like she wanted to go war over Syria, just like she wanted to go to war over Libya, just like she wanted to go war over Iraq)

 

[Allan]

Oh, pardon me - do you want to see the US go to war with Iran?
(hint: Victoria Nuland does, just like she wanted to go to war over Ukraine, just like she wanted to go war over Syria, just like she wanted to go to war over Libya, just like she wanted to go war over Iraq)

Try again.

Where do you have any evidence to make this claim...

Yet you want a sequel to this crime against humanity?

 

[reinaert]

Certainly many people watch Scott Ritter -- that's why he's continually invited to give his excellent analysis and commentary

OFFS, some people can't take the only available offramp even when it's cleared of all traffic and they're given an escort.

You bought Scott Ritter. Worse, you pay a monthly subscription. No one is going to take him off your hands.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Isn't free speech a wonderful thing?
In this country you can post the most ridiculous, senseless, defamatory, message about the leader of our country, and never worry about being taken away for questioning as a subversive who is a danger to our society.
No wonder millions of poor souls from oppressive nations fight to get here to lead happier lives.

 

[reinaert]

If we go to war with Iran we will also be going to war with China and Russia.

This is probably not accurate. Xi is a world class villain, but has shown no signs that he wants carrier groups inside the islands, doing active carrier group things.

 

[sanman]

OFFS, some people can't take the only available offramp even when it's cleared of all traffic and they're given an escort.

You bought Scott Ritter. Worse, you pay a monthly subscription. No one is going to take him off your hands.

I'm talking about the thread topic here, and you're consistently trying to derail it. This is because you have no good arguments to make on the thread topic. Everyone can see that.
This is why you consistently look for ways to discuss anything but the thread topic. Stunts like these are what lower the quality of this site.
Learn the name of this site, and learn what it means - and learn how to debate the topic in the title of the thread, instead of digressing.

 

[reinaert]

I'm talking about the thread topic here, and you're consistently trying to derail it. This is because you have no good arguments to make on the thread topic. Everyone can see that.
This is why you consistently look for ways to discuss anything but the thread topic. Stunts like these are what lower the quality of this site.
Learn the name of this site, and learn what it means - and learn how to debate the topic in the title of the thread, instead of digressing.

You posted the Scott Ritter video.

 

[Allan]

You posted the Scott Ritter video.

Three of them now.

 

[sanman]

You posted the Scott Ritter video.

The video I posted was related to the topic of the thread. Whatever you're posting is unrelated to the topic of this thread, and deliberately so.
I'm talking about the topic, while you purposely try to derail. You're only making excuses for yourself.

Three of them now.

I've posted many others - and you're derailing too. Sign of inability to Debate Politics.

 

[jmotivator]

After some research, I( doubt that Fordow can actually be penetrated by the GBU-57 MOP.

Granted, the tech specs of military equipment listed online is usually purposely misleading, but based on the specs, I have doubts. The numbers:

Fordow Enrichment Facility is built under 80-90m of earth

The earth that it is built under in predominantly Limestone and Dolomite.

The average PSI rating of Limestone is 9,500

The average PSI rating of Dolomite in 19,000

The GBU-57 MOP, in publicly available specs, can penetrate 8 meters of 10,000 PSI concrete. Even if it was only Limestone, it would take multiple strikes to just reach effective depth. If it is mostly solid dolomite it would take dozens of GBU-57s to ensure the mission was successful.

The trouble is that these bombs are delivered by B-2 bombers, and the US has maybe a few dozen GBU-57s in the arsenal.

I don't think the US would dedicate 10-20 B-2 bombing runs and most of their GBU-57s to destroying the Fordow Refinery.

There is a better chance of a successful Iranian revolution and then just buying the facility off of the new regime to allow US and Israeli troops in to dismantle it.

Seems to me that the Iranian regime should have built their command bunkers in Fordow...

 

[Allan]

There is a better chance of a successful Iranian revolution

Personally I don't see that in the cards. I suppose an Iranian Spring is always a possibility but I'd say very remote.

Because Iran is being attacked by Israel Iranians are likely to rally around their government's role as defender of Islam and Iran.

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[jmotivator]

Personally I don't see that in the cards. I suppose an Iranian Spring is always a possibility but I'd say very remote.

Because Iran is being attacked by Israel Iranians are likely to rally around their government's role as defender of Islam and Iran.

As I see it, the command structure of the IRGC is in tatters, and the IDF have open access to IRGC command channels AND the IRGC is now figuring out the extent of anti-Regime Iranians that have been working with the IDF all along.. The constant pressure from precision strikes and lack of secure communication channels are breaking the IRGC morale. Khamenei can't seem to appoint a successor to an IRGC position without a bomb finding them within 24 hours.

Now there are rumors that Khamenei is looking for ways to exit Iran before a bomb finds him, and if he manages that, or a bomb finds him, all bets are off. He very well may be in a bunker 80m under Tehran, but he'll need to come up at some point if we wants to escape.

 

[Allan]

As I see it, the command structure of the IRGC is in tatters, and constant pressure from precision strikes are breaking their morale

They've definitely taken some hits to the senior ranks.

But these guys have been in power since 1979. They have some personnel depth from which they can source replacements.