Is Zelenskyya's mouth now a liability for Ukraine?

[Rogue Valley]

Frankly, I haven’t seen much evidence from either side that they’re serious about ending the war. Zelenskyy claims he wants peace, but then goes on European media and flatly states he won’t accept any ceasefire that acknowledges Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea—or any of the other territories he’s already lost.

What we have here is a dedicated Putinist. Only too happy to reward Putin for his invasions, illegal annexations, and war crimes.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I cannot recall any leader this century, or much of last that felt as entitled as Zelensky.

Another dedicated Putinist. If anyone feels entitled, that would be Vladimir Putin... an entitlement to conquer and annex all Ukrainian lands.

 

[MamboDervish]

We’ve already given Ukraine Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, Javelin anti-tank systems, Switchblade loitering munitions, HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems), Abrams M1 main battle tanks, and Patriot missile systems—all while depleting U.S. military stockpiles of 155 mm howitzer shells and other critical supplies. What more advanced American weaponry do you want us to send?

More. Give Ukraine more. We could give them 200 Bradleys, 300 F-16s, 1,000 APCs, 3,000 more M1-A1s, .... MORE ... virtually none of which we will ever use in combat again.

Stealth bombers? Nuclear weapons?

That's just stupid.

We’ve already stripped our warehouses of critical weaponry so Ukraine could be armed with advanced American systems.

No we have not stripped our warehouses of critical weaponry.

Despite that, Ukraine refuses to adopt Western tactics, ...

Despite that, Ukraine has beat the shit out of allegedly far superior forces, beating them back for years, and forcing Russia to resort to North Korean troops to stay in the battle. They even held Russian homeland territory for awhile.

... clinging instead to their Soviet-style training and fighting a World War I-style trench war.

You've mistaken Ukraine with Russia. They are the ones who resorted to desperate WWI style trench warfare to keep from getting driven back to Moscow.

Even after draining our military stockpiles and squandering tens of billions on this dumb proxy war, the so-called “megalomaniacal madman” is still winning.

Our stockpiles have never been drained. Not even for a single day.

And while you arbitrarily reject a ceasefire—

That's a lie. I don't arbitrarily reject a ceasefire - I reject being stupid enough to believe Putin can be held to any cease - WHICH HE HAS PROVEN JUST LAST WEEK - AGAIN !!

one that would end the war along the current battle lines—neither you nor anyone else has explained what’s suddenly going to change that would allow Ukraine to win, short of NATO intervening directly (which, of course, would start World War III).

You just aren't paying attention.

What makes you think the little dictator’s forces—after three years of losing—are suddenly going to pound the “son of a bitch” back behind his own borders again?

The only dictator in this fight is Putin. Zelensky is not a dictator. He's a president defending his homeland against an invading forces whose intentions are to take over his country. Spare us all the pro-Russian propaganda and get yourself better news sources.

Do you have any actual plan—

Providing as much arms, training, and military intelligence, including satellite targeting, as it takes to stop Putin and convince the Kremlin that the cost of remaining in Ukraine is just too much for Russia to pay - just like we did in Afghanistan.

or is this just more delusional cheerleading for Zelenskyy and his doomed fantasy of total victory?

Afghanistan never achieved total victory over the Russian military. They simply made the cost of continued occupation too high. That's how alleged "super powers" are put back in their box. That's what drove us out of Vietnam and Afghanistan. The cost was simply too high.

What is it you refuse to get about such obvious historical facts? You ramble on as if you were born yesterday.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I cannot recall any leader this century, or much of last that felt as entitled as Zelensky. The guy is strange. Very strange. I am inclined to believe he believes he can publicly move the world. The only negotiations he believes in are the ones conducted in public before tv cameras. Once cameras are turned on he becomes uncontrollable. The Oval Office clash being a case in point. Before leaving for the US everyone knew only other of business was a few nice words to the press, then signing the minerals deal. As soon as Zelensky saw camera lights, everything was out the window. This was where he conducts his fights. He had the American public glued to the screens, why not prove to them how he was right, and Trump, Vance, Rubio idiots.

Back in Sept 30th 2022, after a Russian attacks on Kyiv, Zelensky went on tv and presented what he called an emergency accelerated acession into Nato. Somehow he believed his tv performance would move the world and open the doors of Nato to him. He was reminded to go through the regular chanels

Ukraine formally applies for fast-track NATO membership

NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg shies away from directly endorsing Ukraine’s bid, but stresses alliance is open to new members.

www.politico.eu

Perhaps that is his problem. He was an actor before he was a politician. He still lives in fantasyland.

 

[Juin]

Perhaps that is his problem. He was an actor before he was a politician. He still lives in fantasyland.

Fantasyland, it is. Another example is the Pope funeral. Why was Zelensky so hell bent on getting Trump to sit down for a chat? What could he possibly have wanted to ask from Trump that has not already been asked? And why did they not give them a private room? It was grotesque. Maybe Zelensky saw the lights, the cameras, the basilica, the statues, the cardinals as the ideal backdrop necessary to force concessions from Trump.

 

[Juin]

More. Give Ukraine more. We could give them 200 Bradleys, 300 F-16s, 1,000 APCs, 3,000 more M1-A1s, .... MORE ... virtually none of which we will ever use in combat again.

300 F16s! There's no political mandate for that. Kamala Harris ran on a war platform but lost.

 

[MamboDervish]

300 F16s! There's no political mandate for that.

That doesn't mean it isn't required.

Kamala Harris ran on a war platform but lost.

A foolish oversimplification of the many problems with Kamala's election loss.

 

[MAGAnificent]

olish oversimplification of the many problems with Kamala's election loss.

Harris simply could not articulate policy. And that stupid cackle.

 

[MamboDervish]

Harris simply could not articulate policy. And that stupid cackle.

O*M*G !! SHE CACKLED !!!

Oy vey.

 

[MAGAnificent]

O*M*G !! SHE CACKLED !!!

Oy vey.

Yes, she even cackled at her own nonsense.

 

[MamboDervish]

Yes, she even cackled at her own nonsense.

HOW DARE SHE?

 

[Logophile]

It takes being a Russian apologist to suggest Zelenskyy is a "liability" for Ukraine, no different than suggesting Ukraine give up and become Russia.

So you support Zelensky maintaining power as he refuses to compromise, while he oversees the kidnapping of more Ukraine men so as to send them to slaughter, while Russia captures more territory. I assume that's your solution?? Because I don't see any European nations marching into the fray or spending the serious amount it takes to support an entire country, that is until Russia finally conquers the whole region. And we're certainly not putting boots on the ground, so all this is, is a bunch of blood sucking warmongers watching people suffer because they vicariously want to win, like a bunch of heartless, unethical four year olds

 

[MAGAnificent]

HOW DARE SHE?

Are you okay??????

 

[OrphanSlug]

So you support Zelensky maintaining power as he refuses to compromise, while he oversees the kidnapping of more Ukraine men so as to send them to slaughter, while Russia captures more territory. I assume that's your solution?? But I don't see any European nations marching into the fray or spending the serious amount it takes to support an entire country, that is until Russia finally conquers the whole region. And we're certainly not putting boots on the ground, so all this is, is a bunch of blood sucking warmongers watching people suffer because they want to win, like heartless, unethical four year olds

Who, as in exactly, is Zelenskyy refusing to "compromise" with?

 

[Logophile]

Who, as in exactly, is Zelenskyy refusing to "compromise" with?

US for openers. Zelensky's still stuck on Crimea, that somehow in his fantastical mind, Russia - after over a decade of Crimea's occupation - is going to be forced to return it. Russia is winning the war. Zelensky, for the sake of his own people, should be aiding the peace process, not sounding like a baby

 

[OrphanSlug]

US for openers. Zelensky's still stuck on Crimea, that somehow in his fantastical mind, Russia - after over a decade of Crimea's occupation - is going to be forced to return it. Russia is winning the war. Zelensky, for the sake of his own people, should be aiding the peace process, not sounding like a baby

No, Trump is only negotiating for a mineral rights deal. No security, no real certainty that Russia will end their campaign.

Speaking of, we have no objective evidence that Russia is winning this war. Been going on way too long to conclude some imminent win even with Trump trying to tilt the table in Russia's favor.

Lastly, we have no objective evidence that Putin is interested in peace. As in none.

 

[Roadvirus]

We’ve already given Ukraine Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, Javelin anti-tank systems, Switchblade loitering munitions, HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems), Abrams M1 main battle tanks, and Patriot missile systems—all while depleting U.S. military stockpiles of 155 mm howitzer shells and other critical supplies. What more advanced American weaponry do you want us to send? Stealth bombers? Nuclear weapons?

A few fully-armed A-10 Warthogs in their possession sounds good. That'll ruin Russia's year.

We’ve already stripped our warehouses of critical weaponry so Ukraine could be armed with advanced American systems. Despite that, Ukraine refuses to adopt Western tactics, clinging instead to their Soviet-style training and fighting a World War I-style trench war.

Ukrainian soldiers have been trained in huge bunches on modern fighting techniques by NATO countries.

Even after draining our military stockpiles and squandering tens of billions on this dumb proxy war, the so-called “megalomaniacal madman” is still winning.

Russia's on the verge of economic collapse & its military has been so depleted, they are down to using donkeys, scooters and golf carts.

What makes you think the little dictator’s forces—after three years of losing—are suddenly going to pound the “son of a bitch” back behind his own borders again? Do you have any actual plan—or is this just more delusional cheerleading for Zelenskyy and his doomed fantasy of total victory?

Calling Zelensky a "dictator" proves you have no credibility.

 

[Roadvirus]

Perhaps that is his problem. He was an actor before he was a politician. He still lives in fantasyland.

And yet, Zelensky is more popular & intelligent then Trump could ever hope to be.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Fantasyland, it is. Another example is the Pope funeral. Why was Zelensky so hell bent on getting Trump to sit down for a chat?

Good grief. More @Juin fantsasy. No one - especially Zelenskyy - can force Donald Trump to sit down for a brief chat.

If I know Trump, he wanted some time with Mr. Z to close the Ukraine minerals deal. Well now, lookie here.....

U.S. and Ukraine sign long-awaited minerals deal to rebuild Kyiv and repay aid

Ukraine's economy minister, who signed the deal with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, said Kyiv will maintain ownership of its minerals and the companies that may be used to mine them.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Rogue Valley]

US for openers. Zelensky's still stuck on Crimea, that somehow in his fantastical mind, Russia - after over a decade of Crimea's occupation - is going to be forced to return it. Russia is winning the war. Zelensky, for the sake of his own people, should be aiding the peace process, not sounding like a baby

Pro Tip: Stop reading TASS and RT.

 

[Logophile]

Pro Tip: Stop reading TASS and RT.

I don't but here's a pro tip for you: stop kidding yourself by supporting a delusional parasite, because you're supporting the suffering of the Ukraine people. In addition, you're tacitly threatening Ukraine as an independent nation. Get on board with the peace process

 

[Rogue Valley]

I don't but here's a pro tip for you: stop kidding yourself by supporting a delusional parasite, because you're supporting the suffering of the Ukraine people. In addition, you're tacitly threatening Ukraine as an independent nation. Get on board with the peace process

Another tip: I used to live in Ukraine.

To shortest route to peace is for Putin to withdraw the Russian military from Ukraine.

 

[Logophile]

Another tip: I used to live in Ukraine.

To shortest route to peace is for Putin to withdraw the Russian military from Ukraine.

The shortest route to peace is accepting the reality of not having enough money, bodies or resources to support your side of the carnage. If you're so gung-ho, why aren't you over there on the front line?? Other foreigners have done it that felt just like you. There're soldiers over there in battle in their late fifties and sixties, so age is no excuse. Zelensky is literally kidnapping men off the streets to use as cannon fodder. Is that your idea of a nice guy or a democracy?? It's a disgrace. Ukrainians don't deserve it and Americans - ethical ones that is - don't want to be forced to support it. Ukraine can exit as a whole and independent nation. Your way is a huge numbers of Ukrainians killed and the nation destroyed while you sit back on the sofa

 

[Juin]

That doesn't mean it isn't required.

You said 300 F16s should be given. What should be given and what is required are not necessarily the same thing. In the case of 300 F16s there is an impossible gap between the requirement and its feasibility

A foolish oversimplification of the many problems with Kamala's election loss.

She was the war candidate. She may have lost for a variety of reasons but that in no way changes the fact that the war party lost along with her. Only for the moment though. Midterms may look far at moment, but its coming up, it may breath life into the war party.

 

[MamboDervish]

The shortest route to peace is accepting the reality of not having enough money, bodies or resources to support your side of the carnage.

No - the shortest route to peace is Putin's total withdrawal of Ukrainian territory.

If you're so gung-ho, why aren't you over there on the front line?? Other foreigners have done it that felt just like you. There're soldiers over there in battle in their late fifties and sixties, so age is no excuse. Zelensky is literally kidnapping men off the streets to use as cannon fodder. Is that your idea of a nice guy or a democracy?? It's a disgrace.

For generations, the US conscripted American men, essentially forcing them into military service.

Ukrainians don't deserve it and Americans - ethical ones that is - don't want to be forced to support it.

Americans - ethical ones - don't want our tax dollars supporting our bloated military industrial complex either .... but we are no less forced to support it. Likewise dozens of other expenditures our representative government decides to fund. So what? You don't get to say where every tax dollar goes anymore than I do.

Ukraine can exit as a whole and independent nation.

NO IT CAN NOT! Not if Putin isn't put back behind his own borders again - OR Ukraine

Your way is a huge numbers of Ukrainians killed and the nation destroyed while you sit back on the sofa

NO! Your way is a huge number of Ukrainians killed, AND their nation entirely overrun and destroyed, while you sit back on your sofa. Putin has never honored any accord, peace treaty, ceasefire or otherwise with Ukraine. Not even once! They were already both under a cease fire when Putin started launching rockets into Kyiv. WAKE UP! This is war is a zero sum game. Either Ukrainians get to keep Ukraine, or Russia gets Ukraine at the expense of the Ukrainians.

Which option is more just? That is the one we should all wholeheartedly support. Period.