Is Zelenskyya's mouth now a liability for Ukraine?

[MAGAnificent]

And yet, Zelensky is more popular & intelligent then Trump could ever hope to be.

TDS motivated projection.

 

[Juin]

The shortest route to peace is accepting the reality of not having enough money, bodies or resources to support your side of the carnage. If you're so gung-ho, why aren't you over there on the front line?? Other foreigners have done it that felt just like you.

You have to keep in mind that there's something seriously Quixotic about the Rogue Valley. To him this forum is the trenches of Donbass itself. He attacks opponents with the same fury Don Quixote charged at windmills. He even has a gulag in another section for his opponents. I will be seriously surprised if you are not in that gulag.

 

[MamboDervish]

You said 300 F16s should be given. What should be given and what is required are not necessarily the same thing. In the case of 300 F16s there is an impossible gap between the requirement and its feasibility

No there isn't.

She was the war candidate.

No she wasn't. Not only did she never express being in favor of that war, but she repeatedly said she would not be silent in her criticism of Israel for Palestinian suffering.

Harris: ‘I will not be silent’ on Gaza suffering; Israel: Her words harm chances for deal

After meeting Netanyahu, US VP says she lamented 'death of far too many innocent civilians'; top Israeli official: Remarks imply Israel-US gaps, will lead Hamas to toughen stance

www.timesofisrael.com

https://www.npr.org/2024/07/25/nx-s1-5048285/harris-gaza-war

Conversely, all her opponent had to offer in contrast was more bullshit about his ability to stop that conflict on day one, with nothing but a phone call to Bibi. And today, after 100 more days of the conman Trump, is that war over yet? Yes or not? Is it? By rights we can all say that Trump, and his Republicans, must be "the war party"!

She may have lost for a variety of reasons but that in no way changes the fact that the war party lost along with her.

Again, nothing more than a gross oversimplification of the many reasons for her loss. Never mind that it totally implies that Trump had less support for Israel, absolute contempt for the Muslims in general, and Palestinians in particular, so much so that after vising Gaza his new "solution for peace" was to deport them all to a neighboring country, bulldoze their lands, and build his own resort hotels, casinos, spas and golf courses on their land, creating a Riviera East.

Only for the moment though. Midterms may look far at moment, but its coming up, it may breath life into the war party.

You should be embarrassed by your bullshit mischaracterization. The Democrats are not the war party - the Republicans are. Have you been sleeping through the 21 century? Biden was the only president who had the courage to FINALLY END our 20 year Afghanistan war!

Do you ever get anything right? It would seem not.

 

[Juin]

No there isn't.

Then you are disconnected from reality. 300 F16s is sheer fantasy. 30 F16s is already a stretch.

No she wasn't. Not only did she never express being in favor of that war, but she repeatedly said she would not be silent in her criticism of Israel for Palestinian suffering

Let me see: Trump ran on a platform to prosecute the war until victory for Ukraine, and Kamala for pulling out! That will make Trump the war party

 

[Logophile]

No - the shortest route to peace is Putin's total withdrawal of Ukrainian territory.

For generations, the US conscripted American men, essentially forcing them into military service.

Americans - ethical ones - don't want our tax dollars supporting our bloated military industrial complex either .... but we are no less forced to support it. Likewise dozens of other expenditures our representative government decides to fund. So what? You don't get to say where every tax dollar goes anymore than I do.

NO IT CAN NOT! Not if Putin isn't put back behind his own borders again - OR Ukraine

NO! Your way is a huge number of Ukrainians killed, AND their nation entirely overrun and destroyed, while you sit back on your sofa. Putin has never honored any accord, peace treaty, ceasefire or otherwise with Ukraine. Not even once! They were already both under a cease fire when Putin started launching rockets into Kyiv. WAKE UP! This is war is a zero sum game. Either Ukrainians get to keep Ukraine, or Russia gets Ukraine at the expense of the Ukrainians.

Which option is more just? That is the one we should all wholeheartedly support. Period.

Well, as far as I can tell, your entire argument is predicated on wild presumptions or outright fallacies. But be that as it may, you better get over there and help out if you're so convinced, because nobody else is about to. The Ukrainian people have become the west's latest lurid sacrifice for no reason other than the lust for war and principles that haven't applied since Korea, and WE - meaning Americans - will not be putting any boots on the ground nor will cavalier western European countries. What that means is that Ukraine will run out of males able to fight and lose a generation along with a lot of infrastructure. So I suggest you put your derriere where your mouth is and head to Zelensky land

 

[Logophile]

You have to keep in mind that there's something seriously Quixotic about the Rogue Valley. To him this forum is the trenches of Donbass itself. He attacks opponents with the same fury Don Quixote charged at windmills. He even has a gulag in another section for his opponents. I will be seriously surprised if you are not in that gulag.

Lol!! I am indeed there

 

[MamboDervish]

Well, as far as I can tell, your entire argument is predicated on wild presumptions or outright fallacies.

Really? The only wild assumption afoot in this discussion is that Putin will honor any treaty.

Putin declares truce in Ukraine - but how many times has he broken ceasefire deals?

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky says Vladimir Putin has broken 25 peace agreements over the past decade

www.the-independent.com

Only a complete fool believes that Ukrainians can achieve any peace without guarantees that either NATO membership, NATO forces, and NATO weapons be provided to Ukraine on their remaining territory .... OR Russia be forced to withdraw back behind the borders set by "the "Big Treaty", which was an agreement signed in 1997 between Ukraine and Russia, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other be allowed. "
~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian–Ukrainian_Friendship_Treaty

You know - the one that PUTIN VIOLATED !!

But be that as it may, you better get over there and help out if you're so convinced, because nobody else is about to. The Ukrainian people have become the west's latest lurid sacrifice for no reason other than the lust for war and principles that haven't applied since Korea, and WE - meaning Americans - will not be putting any boots on the ground nor will cavalier western European countries. What that means is that Ukraine will run out of males able to fight and lose a generation along with a lot of infrastructure. So I suggest you put your derriere where your mouth is and head to Zelensky land

No. May I suggest an alternative? How about you go fight for Russia. We already know that mad Vlad will take mercenaries from anywhere in the world to shore up his depleted and floundering army. I'd rather not see the innocent Ukrainian civilians slaughtered, driven from their lands, or suffer the revenge and reprisals that will be heaped upon them by the invading and occupying Russian military. They don't deserve that.

 

[Roadvirus]

I don't but here's a pro tip for you: stop kidding yourself by supporting a delusional parasite

I haven't supported Trump since late Nov. 2020/early Dec. 2020

because you're supporting the suffering of the Ukraine people.

The only lot in this world supporting their suffering is Russia.

In addition, you're tacitly threatening Ukraine as an independent nation.

Again...Russia is the one doing that.

Get on board with the peace process

Once Putzin orders his military back to Russia & returns Ukraine to pre-2014 invasion borders, i will.

 

[Logophile]

Really? The only wild assumption afoot in this discussion is that Putin will honor any treaty.

Putin declares truce in Ukraine - but how many times has he broken ceasefire deals?

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky says Vladimir Putin has broken 25 peace agreements over the past decade

www.the-independent.com

Only a complete fool believes that Ukrainians can achieve any peace without guarantees that either NATO membership, NATO forces, and NATO weapons be provided to Ukraine on their remaining territory .... OR Russia be forced to withdraw back behind the borders set by "the "Big Treaty", which was an agreement signed in 1997 between Ukraine and Russia, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other be allowed. "
~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian–Ukrainian_Friendship_Treaty

You know - the one that PUTIN VIOLATED !!

No. May I suggest an alternative? How about you go fight for Russia. We already know that mad Vlad will take mercenaries from anywhere in the world to shore up his depleted and floundering army. I'd rather not see the innocent Ukrainian civilians slaughtered, driven from their lands, or suffer the revenge and reprisals that will be heaped upon them by the invading and occupying Russian military. They don't deserve that.

So get over to Ukraine and put your derrière where your mouth is. I'm an American so the only nation I fight for is America. Most rabid warmongers like to hype up Putin like he's Darth Vader, maybe because they love the bloodshed and want to prolong it in any way possible. But no, Putin isn't Darth Vader. He has actually stuck to treaties about the same way we have, you know: kinda, sorta, as long as the mood is right. He's also in his 70s so his aspirations aren't that grand, despite Zelensky's slimy sales pitch that Russia wants to take over the world, and that he's a threat to the US. I was proud of Trump slapping him down on that whopper. Btw, Ukraine and the west are equally responsible for Russia's wrath and have been for awhile. Nobody likes missiles pointed at them right across the border, and that's what a NATO membership would have entailed, albeit disguised as a "missile defense system." Lol. Even your horrible Darth Vader Putin knew that the "missile defense system" could become a plain ol missiles system at a moment's notice, that could take out Moscow. We didn't like em in Cuba, and we definitely wouldn't put up with them in Mexico without an invasion. See how it works, now?? It's called "don't threaten super powers" and they probably won't invade

 

[Logophile]

I haven't supported Trump since late Nov. 2020/early Dec. 2020




The only lot in this world supporting their suffering is Russia.




Again...Russia is the one doing that.



Once Putzin orders his military back to Russia & returns Ukraine to pre-2014 invasion borders, i will.

So why not go now if you're all about the pre-2014 borders?? The only way you're gonna get that is Zelensky's way, right?? Fight on, bro. You can join that vast long list of Zelensky's kidnap victims. He won't even have to kidnap you, right?? You're all for fighting, aren't ya?? Or is it just those other people that get to be blown to smithereens or maimed for life??

 

[MamboDervish]

So get over to Ukraine and put your derrière where your mouth is. I'm an American so the only nation I fight for is America.

I guess English is not your first language. Try rereading post #332 until you get it.

Most rabid warmongers like to hype up Putin like he's Darth Vader, maybe because they love the bloodshed and want to prolong it in any way possible. But no, Putin isn't Darth Vader. He has actually stuck to treaties about the same way we have, you know: kinda, sorta, as long as the mood is right. He's also in his 70s so his aspirations aren't that grand, despite Zelensky's slimy sales pitch that Russia wants to take over the world, and that he's a threat to the US.

Wait - I'll get my hip waders out for this ... the shit your shoveling is already over my boots.

I was proud of Trump slapping him down on that whopper.

You would be.

Btw, Ukraine and the west are equally responsible for Russia's wrath and have been for awhile. Nobody likes missiles pointed at them right across the border, and that's what a NATO membership would have entailed, albeit disguised as a "missile defense system."

?? "would have entailed" ??!!?? What the **** are you babbling about? What has happened since the liar and treaty breaker Putin started his campaign 3 years ago? Hmm? He now has 1,400 km MORE border directly up against NATO! Not only has he all but lost any control of the Baltic Sea, but now NATO can literally cut off both his rail and road resupply route to Russia's Arctic military bases at Polyarny, because their missiles are 90 miles closer than they've ever been! Can you read a map, or is that too much trouble?

Now NATO ground forces can be within howitzers distance of St. Petersburg within one day's offensive, where they won't even need rockets! And all of this change is because of the liar and treaty breaker Putin's stupid invasion of Ukraine. Just look up how NATO has expanded since Putin's invasion. And if NATO builds an airbase on Gotland, then Russia might just as well surrender Kaliningrad, because their naval base there will be useless.

Lol. Even your horrible Darth Vader Putin knew that the "missile defense system" could become a plain ol missiles system at a moment's notice, that could take out Moscow. We didn't like em in Cuba, and we definitely wouldn't put up with them in Mexico without an invasion. See how it works, now?? It's called "don't threaten super powers" and they probably won't invade

What a stupid comment. Without Russia's intention of completely overrunning Ukraine, obvious since the state of aggression 3 years ago, Finland would have NEVER entered NATO! Learn something about their history. And make no mistake, everyone in Europe knows that Putin had no intention of ever stopping at Luhansk and Donetsk like he claimed. It was total bullshit from day one, just like every other word out of Putin's mouth, and just like every word out of Trump's. The only reason the Finnish, and now even the Swedish people, joined NATO is because they know what you refuse to learn. Which is the truth about Putin's record, his intentions, and his threat to peace, not only in Scandinavia and the Baltic, but throughout Europe. You tell yourself that this is not the USA's fight, but you are delusional.

Read a map sometime. You might learn something.

 

[Logophile]

I guess English is not your first language. Try rereading post #332 until you get it.

Wait - I'll get my hip waders out for this ... the shit your shoveling is already over my boots.

You would be.

?? "would have entailed" ??!!?? What the **** are you babbling about? What has happened since the liar and treaty breaker Putin started his campaign 3 years ago? Hmm? He now has 1,400 km MORE border directly up against NATO! Not only has he all but lost any control of the Baltic Sea, but now NATO can literally cut off both his rail and road resupply route to Russia's Arctic military bases at Polyarny, because their missiles are 90 miles closer than they've ever been! Can you read a map, or is that too much trouble?

Now NATO ground forces can be within howitzers distance of St. Petersburg within one day's offensive, where they won't even need rockets! And all of this change is because of the liar and treaty breaker Putin's stupid invasion of Ukraine. Just look up how NATO has expanded since Putin's invasion. And if NATO builds an airbase on Gotland, then Russia might just as well surrender Kaliningrad, because their naval base there will be useless.

What a stupid comment. Without Russia's intention of completely overrunning Ukraine, obvious since the state of aggression 3 years ago, Finland would have NEVER entered NATO! Learn something about their history. And make no mistake, everyone in Europe knows that Putin had no intention of ever stopping at Luhansk and Donetsk like he claimed. It was total bullshit from day one, just like every other word out of Putin's mouth, and just like every word out of Trump's. The only reason the Finnish, and now even the Swedish people, joined NATO is because they know what you refuse to learn. Which is the truth about Putin's record, his intentions, and his threat to peace, not only in Scandinavia and the Baltic, but throughout Europe. You tell yourself that this is not the USA's fight, but you are delusional.

Read a map sometime. You might learn something.

LOL!! You haven't written a single plausible sentence. It's all five year old retorts. The Finnish and Swedish joined NATO for all kinds of reasons. mostly political, that had nothing to do with a true threat. Ukraine cut the pipeline to Europe, so obviously, the EU demonstrably had every reason to reject that corrupt nation - still has - as Zelensky is just following in the corruption suit. Even Poland recognized it and stopped the trains of Ukraine escapees. Russia has every reason to call it a day in Ukraine, but it's not giving up hard earned crimea, nor is it giving up access. Why?? Because just like every other nation on earth that actually has internal interests at heart, it's going to keep what it lost lives for, well, except US. Now you can blather on about the great threat, but deep down, what it's really all about for you is other men suffering for your unethical interests and your hope that - as individuals have little control in this world - this horrific bloodfest aka personal football game somehow makes you a winner. You never will be because YOU are not a participant in any real way. You're just a blowhard with a free ticket to watch

 

[MamboDervish]

LOL!! You haven't written a single plausible sentence. It's all five year old retorts. The Finnish and Swedish joined NATO for all kinds of reasons. mostly political, that had nothing to do with a true threat. Ukraine cut the pipeline to Europe, so obviously, the EU demonstrably had every reason to reject that corrupt nation - still has - as Zelensky is just following in the corruption suit. Even Poland recognized it and stopped the trains of Ukraine escapees. Russia has every reason to call it a day in Ukraine, but it's not giving up hard earned crimea, nor is it giving up access. Why?? Because just like every other nation on earth that actually has internal interests at heart, it's going to keep what it lost lives for, well, except US. Now you can blather on about the great threat, but deep down, what it's really all about for you is other men suffering for your unethical interests and your hope that - as individuals have little control in this world - this horrific bloodfest aka personal football game somehow makes you a winner. You never will be because YOU are not a participant in any real way. You're just a blowhard with a free ticket to watch

You are Putin's tool, happy to see him march all over Europe, and slaughter every Ukrainian man, woman and child. You want to know who the blowhard is with a free ticket to watch? Here ...

Look in the mirror.

 

[Logophile]

You are Putin's tool, happy to see him march all over Europe, and slaughter every Ukrainian man, woman and child. You want to know who the blowhard is with a free ticket to watch? Here ...

Look in the mirror.

You really think Americans are buying your bloodthirsty meme?? Nope. They're not. And they're definitely not going to keep slaughtering Ukranians for you. Btw, I'm guess you never served as in the American military?? Yeah, thought so

 

[MamboDervish]

You really think Americans are buying your bloodthirsty meme?? Nope. They're not. And they're definitely not going to keep slaughtering Ukranians for you. Btw, I'm guess you never served as in the American military?? Yeah, thought so

See comment #338

Unlike you, I won't pretend to know what Americans are buying, only that polls show they are on the side of Ukraine. But we all have a good idea what Putin's butt buddy Trump will do.

 

[Logophile]

See comment #338

Unlike you, I won't pretend to know what Americans are buying, only that polls show they are on the side of Ukraine. But we all have a good idea what Putin's butt buddy Trump will do.

Uh, the polls don't say that. But you know, nobody should believe polls. People should live their lives according to their beliefs. Nothing's holding you from going over to Ukraine and living your convictions instead of expecting your "brethren" - otherwise known as Zelensky and your tacit victims - to suffer for you. Ukraine wants YOU

 

[MamboDervish]

Uh, the polls don't say that. But you know, nobody should believe polls. People should live their lives according to their beliefs. Nothing's holding you from going over to Ukraine and living your convictions instead of expecting your "brethren" - otherwise known as Zelensky and your tacit victims - to suffer for you. Ukraine wants YOU

Here's some more blood on your hands.

Russia launches deadly drone attack on Odesa - officials

Russian drones have killed at least two people and injured another five, the Odesa regional leader says.

www.bbc.com

 

[Logophile]

View attachment 67567871

I must say, , that's a stellar self-portrait that you as the heartless MamboDervish,, beating a poor, innocent creature into oblivion to spare yourself, no different that what you and your hero Zelensky are doing to Ukraine soldiers. I know the animation was canned, but excellent choice for you

 

[MamboDervish]

I must say, , that's a stellar self-portrait that you as the heartless MamboDervish,, beating a poor, innocent creature into oblivion to spare yourself, no different that what you and your hero Zelensky are doing to Ukraine soldiers. I know the animation was canned, but excellent choice for you

No - that's just you beating a dead horse with your ceaseless bullshit defense of Putin. And Zelensky, who is not any hero of mine - certainly not like Putin is a hero or yours - isn't doing anything to Ukraine soldiers. Russians are killing Ukrainians - both soldiers and civilians - which they would continue to do whether Ukraine was willing to fight back or not. Just as Putin's rockets commenced falling on Kyiv when no Ukrainian soldiers were involved in combat at all.

 

[Logophile]

No - that's just you beating a dead horse with your ceaseless bullshit defense of Putin. And Zelensky, who is not any hero of mine - certainly not like Putin is a hero or yours - isn't doing anything to Ukraine soldiers. Russians are killing Ukrainians - both soldiers and civilians - which they would continue to do whether Ukraine was willing to fight back or not. Just as Putin's rockets commenced falling on Kyiv when no Ukrainian soldiers were involved in combat at all.

View attachment 67567879

Seriously, it's you. It was a Fraudian choice. And if there's no peace deal, that will be you pounding on lifeless Ukrainians, demanding that they get up and fight another day. But there will be none left to serve the armchair warmongers like you and glad handing Zelensky. All that will be left will be the brutish spectators and the ruins and of course, the Russian flag flying

 

[MamboDervish]

Seriously, it's you. It was a Fraudian choice. And if there's no peace deal, that will be you pounding on lifeless Ukrainians, demanding that they get up and fight another day. But there will be none left to serve the armchair warmongers like you and glad handing Zelensky. Just the ruins

 

[Rogue Valley]

You have to keep in mind that there's something seriously Quixotic about the Rogue Valley. To him this forum is the trenches of Donbass itself. He attacks opponents with the same fury Don Quixote charged at windmills. He even has a gulag in another section for his opponents. I will be seriously surprised if you are not in that gulag.

I was here at DP writing about Ukraine before this targeted section even existed. Long before you even registered here at Debate Politics.

The Russians deserve all the opprobrium that accrues to them. Everyone working in the Kremlin is a War Criminal, but you love them all.

And it's odd how you avoid ever discussing the real gulags in Russia. Now your boy Trump has his own gulag in El Salvador.

Lest people forget about @Juin loyalties.....

I am a certified Trumpist and very sympathetic with the Russian side.

 

[Rogue Valley]

So get over to Ukraine and put your derrière where your mouth is. I'm an American so the only nation I fight for is America.

Yet here you are in this thread, fighting for Putin.

 

[gbg3]

As is Russia. Why the double standard?

One is far stronger and more capable than the other. While that isn't a pleasant situation for one of them, it's certainly a reality they have to recognize and are hamstrung with.

 

[gbg3]

So your sense of justice is based on who's winning.

The situation is simple reality - not "sense of justice".