• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is THIS the Greatest Country on Earth?

Andalublue

Andalublue

Hello again!
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
27,101
Reaction score
12,359
Location
Granada, España
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
The measure of greatness is the wellbeing of a nation, including freedom. Not money, nor gold, nor GDP, nor any other bogus measure. :)
 
The greatness of a nation is in none of these things. All people, and all nations, eventually pass away. What survives it (even though it also is only more permanent, and not actually permanent) is what makes a nation great. We all tacitly acknowledge this. Who would say that Egypt, in the dynastic period, was not a great nation? Who would say that Rome, when it was an empire, was not a great nation? And why would they be? Because what they produced has been valued by all (or almost all) other people.

Now, the factors listed in the thread tend to lead to greatness. But they are not themselves constitutive of greatness.
 
Actually, I have read several reports that show the higher a country's GDP, the more unhappy its population tends to be.
 
a small country that provided free education through university for all of its citizens, transportation for school children, and free health care—including heart surgery—for all.
Click to expand...

****ing commies, they obviously have no freedoms, I'd prefer to die that to live under a communist/marxist/socialist/maoist/leninist/stalinist regime like the one that has taken over Mauritius, obviously by trickery, those liberals can't be trusted.
 
Since what constitutes greatness is a matter of opinion, then we are simultaneously the greatest and the worst nation, as well as falling on all points in between.
 
maquiscat said:
Since what constitutes greatness is a matter of opinion, then we are simultaneously the greatest and the worst nation, as well as falling on all points in between.
Click to expand...

Who is 'we'? Are you a Mauritian? What do you think about your Mauritian Miracle?
 
I think the most important measure of how great a nation is, is how its society ensures the well-being of its citizens. America is doing great in some respects and lagging far behind in others.
 
Andalublue said:
Who is 'we'? Are you a Mauritian? What do you think about your Mauritian Miracle?
Click to expand...

I will admit to having misread your original post. Perhaps if you have lead with the article link it may have been more clear.

However, I standby my point and "we" would be the country of any given poster. In my case, the US. The statement holds true for Spain as well, as I am sure there are people who believe that Spain is the greatest country on earth.

I will have to read more on this country later as regardless of its "greatness" it certainly is amazing for what it seems to have pulled off.
 
Andalublue said:
You've not read the book, I'm guessing. Why do you think it is dribble?
Click to expand...

It's a fancy 'scary' sounding term for people who "want a lot of stuff." It's dribble - my kid's school has "Affluenza seminars" - a few years ago they sent home fliers presenting it as if it was a health scare.

Do some people 'want a lot of stuff?' - Yes.
Do people feel the 'need a lot of stuff?' or consider 'having a lotof stuff will make them happy?' - Yes.

But it's a thought-process, not a 'disease' or 'condition' that you can contract which is what a lot of people present it as.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
It's a fancy 'scary' sounding term for people who "want a lot of stuff." It's dribble - my kid's school has "Affluenza seminars" - a few years ago they sent home fliers presenting it as if it was a health scare.

Do some people 'want a lot of stuff?' - Yes.
Do people feel the 'need a lot of stuff?' or consider 'having a lotof stuff will make them happy?' - Yes.

But it's a thought-process, not a 'disease' or 'condition' that you can contract which is what a lot of people present it as.
Click to expand...

So, the answer to my question is 'no, I haven't read the book'. If you had you'd know that it doesn't claim that it's a disease or condition. It's a phenomenon based on statistical data looking at the correlation between relative wealth, levels of materialism and levels of psychiatric disorders (not necessarily illness). It questions the values of those societies where determinants of success are skewed heavily towards material gain and individualism. It's an interesting concept and I think Affluenza seminars are an excellent idea for bringing it to people's attention and for challenging value assumptions that may be harmful to some members of the community.

It seems far less dribbly than the constant and relentless imprecations to buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend that clogs up endless space on TV, in magazines and newspapers and websites.
 
Andalublue said:
So, the answer to my question is 'no, I haven't read the book'. If you had you'd know that it doesn't claim that it's a disease or condition. It's a phenomenon based on statistical data looking at the correlation between relative wealth, levels of materialism and levels of psychiatric disorders (not necessarily illness). It questions the values of those societies where determinants of success are skewed heavily towards material gain and individualism. It's an interesting concept and I think Affluenza seminars are an excellent idea for bringing it to people's attention and for challenging value assumptions that may be harmful to some members of the community.

It seems far less dribbly than the constant and relentless imprecations to buy, buy, buy, spend, spend, spend that clogs up endless space on TV, in magazines and newspapers and websites.
Click to expand...

Then pass that onto the schools that are sending out fliers with 'information' such as:
"We have a new problem and it's spreading . . . " and "It affects 1 out of every 9 children" as if it's a contageon in need of a vaccination.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Then pass that onto the schools that are sending out fliers with 'information' such as:
"We have a new problem and it's spreading . . . " and "It affects 1 out of every 9 children" as if it's a contageon in need of a vaccination.
Click to expand...

Hey, those are your schools, not mine. We've got plenty of issues of our own to deal with over here.
 
My nation is the greatest nation in all of human history because it is mine. We could stand to improve, and we deserve to improve, because we are the greatest.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
My nation is the greatest nation in all of human history because it is mine. We could stand to improve, and we deserve to improve, because we are the greatest.
Click to expand...

Oooookaaaaay! No one's going to be accusing you of false modesty there, are they? Not being familiar enough with a sufficent number of countries, I don't think I could answer the question. Mauritius looks to be have a go at caring for its citizens as well as it can. I've read amazing things about a number of other countries (Costa Rica, Bhutan, Norway), but one's criteria for judging 'greatness' is entirely subjective. Because you're a part of it, your country's the best? Well that's one way of judging, I guess.
 
Andalublue said:
...but one's criteria for judging 'greatness' is entirely subjective. Because you're a part of it, your country's the best? Well that's one way of judging, I guess.
Click to expand...

Now isn't that what I said earlier? ;)
 
maquiscat said:
Now isn't that what I said earlier? ;)
Click to expand...

Yes. Yes it is. I didn't agree with you when you said it and I don't agree with Viktyr when he says it. I don't think either of you meant it anyway. No doubt there are many thousands of people in every country who believe their nation to be greatest. Most of them must be wrong.
 
Not really. Unless you state that a given set of criteria is going to be the determining factor, then greatness is opinion based and opinions are never wrong....or right for that matter. That's what makes them opinions.
 
Andalublue said:
Oooookaaaaay! No one's going to be accusing you of false modesty there, are they?
Click to expand...

Nope. Modesty is not among my virtues. I am not inclined to consider it a virtue in the first place.

Andalublue said:
Not being familiar enough with a sufficent number of countries, I don't think I could answer the question. Mauritius looks to be have a go at caring for its citizens as well as it can. I've read amazing things about a number of other countries (Costa Rica, Bhutan, Norway), but one's criteria for judging 'greatness' is entirely subjective.
Click to expand...

It is good to study other countries and see what they are doing right. If their ways work better, your country should adopt them because your nation-- the best nation-- deserves a better government.


Andalublue said:
Because you're a part of it, your country's the best? Well that's one way of judging, I guess.
Click to expand...

You could judge it differently, I suppose. But if your nation is not the best nation, why are you still a part of it? Why aren't you trying to be a member of the best nation?

Andalublue said:
Yes. Yes it is. I didn't agree with you when you said it and I don't agree with Viktyr when he says it. I don't think either of you meant it anyway. No doubt there are many thousands of people in every country who believe their nation to be greatest. Most of them must be wrong.
Click to expand...

Millions, most likely. Even in the smallest countries. It is always right to believe that your nation is the best; they're only wrong because they're aliens.
 
Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. ~George Bernard Shaw

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. ~George Santayana

The love of one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border? ~Pablo Casal
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Millions, most likely. Even in the smallest countries. It is always right to believe that your nation is the best; they're only wrong because they're aliens.
Click to expand...
Hahahaha! I like that! I said thousands, because there are plenty of tiny countries who can't muster millions.

No, I don't believe that point at all. You don't have to believe your country is the best to love your country. If you realise that you country isn't the best place in the world, rational responses to it includes seeking to improve it, of attempting to leave. Both seem reasonable.

I love my countries (the one in which I live, the one in which I was born and grew up) but that doesn't necessarily have to make me blind to their faults. I don't need my country to be 'the best' to love it. However, I love the good things about my countries, not the countries regardless. "My country, right or wrong" to me sounds like a recipe for tyranny.
 
Andalublue said:
I love my countries (the one in which I live, the one in which I was born and grew up) but that doesn't necessarily have to make me blind to their faults. I don't need my country to be 'the best' to love it. However, I love the good things about my countries, not the countries regardless. "My country, right or wrong" to me sounds like a recipe for tyranny.
Click to expand...

To believe that one's country is the best in the world does not mean being blind to their faults. It can be as simply as believing it to be the lesser of all evils.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom