Is This Discrimination?

[X Factor]

Several years ago I remember reading a post on another forum from a transsexual male to female woman. Her complaint was that she'd gone for one of those female pelvic exams (that a lot of women go to every year) and I guess the doctor performed the exam (like I say, it's been awhile) but then told her not to return as she did not need to have that exam anymore. She felt he was being discriminatory toward her as a transsexual. I thought, though, that those appointments were to detect if anything was wrong with the reproductive organs, organs that she wouldn't have and therefore didn't need to worry about. Being perfectly honest, it appeared to me (based on a single post, so totally take it for what its worth) that she was angry because she wanted to do something that "ordinary" women do and he was frustrating that.

So here are my questions, were the doctor's actions discrimination and should he perform the exams yearly even if he feels they're not medically necessary?

 

[Gardener]

I'd say the doctor acted in a very ethical fashion based upon what is being recanted.

If he used derisive language while explaining the lackof need for the exam, however, his actions would not.

 

[Slyfox696]

Several years ago I remember reading a post on another forum from a transsexual male to female woman. Her complaint was that she'd gone for one of those female pelvic exams (that a lot of women go to every year) and I guess the doctor performed the exam (like I say, it's been awhile) but then told her not to return as she did not need to have that exam anymore. She felt he was being discriminatory toward her as a transsexual. I thought, though, that those appointments were to detect if anything was wrong with the reproductive organs, organs that she wouldn't have and therefore didn't need to worry about. Being perfectly honest, it appeared to me (based on a single post, so totally take it for what its worth) that she was angry because she wanted to do something that "ordinary" women do and he was frustrating that.

So here are my questions, were the doctor's actions discrimination and should he perform the exams yearly even if he feels they're not medically necessary?

If she was going for a checkup she simply does not need, then there would be nothing wrong with the doctors actions. A doctor should be used to treat legitimate issues, not issues someone wishes they had. Is it discrimination? Yes, it's discrimination in favor of common sense. The doctor's time is valuable to those who have legitimate needs and the doctor should not waste time on a non-existent issue.

While I fully support equality amongst all genders, one's gender should not absolve them of common sense or the common good.

 

[X Factor]

I'd say the doctor acted in a very ethical fashion based upon what is being recanted.

If he used derisive language while explaining the lackof need for the exam, however, his actions would not.

Wish I could say. I don't even remember the forum so I can't go back to try to find it.

 

[lizzie]

So, the person wanting the gyn exam didn't actually have any physical need for the exam, just a psychological desire to be treated as a woman?
If so, no the doctor was not being discriminatory. He was being medically realistic. You can't do a pap smear on a non-existent cervix.

 

[Robbie Loucks]

Given the details provided in the story, it seems discriminatory at first glance. But then again, I'm no expert on how a vagina works if it was the result of a sex-change operation. The doctor might be right and could be doing a good deed by informing the woman about the lack of necessity for pelvic exams, or he might be wrong because he thinks women who used to have penises are icky. He could've have said it was necessary and get a bit extra revenue from taking advantaged of the misinformed lady in the long run. That wouldn't have been nice.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Its called law suit hunting.

 

[1750Texan]

Failure to communitcate. Tell your doctor everything.

I can't see how a transexual person would not have a consult to ask questions of a doctor beforehand. Seek out health professionals familiar with that kind of "anatomay".

Ask and ask and ask and ask. If a doctor told me didnt need to retrurn for another exam..I would ask why?

It could have been a simple as her reconstructed anatomy does not have the same risk factors for complications.

 

[brothern]

Wish I could say. I don't even remember the forum so I can't go back to try to find it.

You might have to. Some transwomen do need this type of preventative care.

 

[X Factor]

You might have to. Some transwomen do need this type of preventative care.

I truly don't understand why if the organs that OBGYNs specialize in are not present. For issues that might be present specific to a transgender's anatomy, wouldn't seeing a doctor that specializes in that anatomy be more appropriate?

 

[Ockham]

I truly don't understand why if the organs that OBGYNs specialize in are not present. For issues that might be present specific to a transgender's anatomy, wouldn't seeing a doctor that specializes in that anatomy be more appropriate?

Even seeing a doctor that specialized in that anatomy.... I mean I don't see the point unless there was a problem. Isn't this more about the emotional state of the person trying to be like a "real" woman and doing real woman things rather than a biological or health issue? I'd think the person would need a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist rather than an actual medical doctor, to you know, work out their feelings of wanting and having the urge to go to a gynecologist.

Did that come across as too harsh? I didn't mean it that way...

 

[mak2]

It is unethical for a healthcare providor to do unneeded exams or procedures. Like stealing.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Given the details provided in the story, it seems discriminatory at first glance. But then again, I'm no expert on how a vagina works if it was the result of a sex-change operation. The doctor might be right and could be doing a good deed by informing the woman about the lack of necessity for pelvic exams, or he might be wrong because he thinks women who used to have penises are icky. He could've have said it was necessary and get a bit extra revenue from taking advantaged of the misinformed lady in the long run. That wouldn't have been nice.

Pelvic exams typically look for cervical abnormalities and internal masses (cysts on the ovaries, uterine fibroids, etc).

A MtF transsexual has neither a cervix, nor internal female sex organs. So there wouldn't be any medical need for her to get pelvic exams.

The only possible thing in a typical pelvic exam that would apply to a TS women is detecting vaginal or vulvar pain, and in many cases, this is treated the same way it would be in birth females. But because of the other considerations and possibilities inherent to sexual reassignment surgery, it would be better for her to go to a doctor who specializes in that in order to rule out other complications that require unique treatment, and wouldn't apply to a birth female.

I can understand why that would frustrate her, because the whole issue for TS people is that their brain disagrees with their body, so having someone say their body has unique considerations unlike those of someone born into that physical sex presents them with yet another way in which their body is frustrating to them. At present, we simply do our best to make the body conform to the brain, because we cannot make the brain conform to the body. But it isn't perfect. And medically, the concerns of a TS woman and a birth woman are not the same, and a gynecologist has little to offer a TS woman.

But that isn't discrimination on the part of the doctor. It's the doctor trying to direct her to more appropriate medical care, and at their own expense, which is admirable. I understand her frustration, but she shouldn't be taking that out on the gyno.

 

[brothern]

I truly don't understand why if the organs that OBGYNs specialize in are not present. For issues that might be present specific to a transgender's anatomy, wouldn't seeing a doctor that specializes in that anatomy be more appropriate?

It is probably not proper to be talking about other people's genitals, but there are instances where an OBGYN would need to be involved.

Edit: Which is why the original post would probably be helpful ...

 

[Jetboogieman]

I'd say the doctor acted in a very ethical fashion based upon what is being recanted.

If he used derisive language while explaining the lackof need for the exam, however, his actions would not.

A perfect assessment of the situation.

If an exam is not medically necessary than there is no point in wasting the doctors time or the patients...

If we were to go down that road I might as well get a pap smear.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Several years ago I remember reading a post on another forum from a transsexual male to female woman. Her complaint was that she'd gone for one of those female pelvic exams (that a lot of women go to every year) and I guess the doctor performed the exam (like I say, it's been awhile) but then told her not to return as she did not need to have that exam anymore. She felt he was being discriminatory toward her as a transsexual. I thought, though, that those appointments were to detect if anything was wrong with the reproductive organs, organs that she wouldn't have and therefore didn't need to worry about. Being perfectly honest, it appeared to me (based on a single post, so totally take it for what its worth) that she was angry because she wanted to do something that "ordinary" women do and he was frustrating that.

So here are my questions, were the doctor's actions discrimination and should he perform the exams yearly even if he feels they're not medically necessary?

No.

However if she wants to find a doctor who will see her and she wants to pay for it, she is free to do so if she needs to feel totally feminine.....but it is elective

 

[X Factor]

Pelvic exams typically look for cervical abnormalities and internal masses (cysts on the ovaries, uterine fibroids, etc).

A MtF transsexual has neither a cervix, nor internal female sex organs. So there wouldn't be any medical need for her to get pelvic exams.

The only possible thing in a typical pelvic exam that would apply to a TS women is detecting vaginal or vulvar pain, and in many cases, this is treated the same way it would be in birth females. But because of the other considerations and possibilities inherent to sexual reassignment surgery, it would be better for her to go to a doctor who specializes in that in order to rule out other complications that require unique treatment, and wouldn't apply to a birth female.

I can understand why that would frustrate her, because the whole issue for TS people is that their brain disagrees with their body, so having someone say their body has unique considerations unlike those of someone born into that physical sex presents them with yet another way in which their body is frustrating to them. At present, we simply do our best to make the body conform to the brain, because we cannot make the brain conform to the body. But it isn't perfect. And medically, the concerns of a TS woman and a birth woman are not the same, and a gynecologist has little to offer a TS woman.

But that isn't discrimination on the part of the doctor. It's the doctor trying to direct her to more appropriate medical care, and at their own expense, which is admirable. I understand her frustration, but she shouldn't be taking that out on the gyno.

Wow, well said.

 

[1750Texan]

It is unethical for a healthcare providor to do unneeded exams or procedures. Like stealing.

A general examination would not be unwarranted. A pap smear sans a cervix might be.

 

[X Factor]

A perfect assessment of the situation.

If an exam is not medically necessary than there is no point in wasting the doctors time or the patients...

If we were to go down that road I might as well get a pap smear.

Gotta say, that made me chuckle.

 

[CLAX1911]

No, I think it would be unethical for a doctor to pretend the exam was necessary for any reason. They get in trouble when they do that for pain.

Based on my limited experience with trans people. Mtfs seem to be very sensitive if there is anything that suggests they are not a woman just like any other. Things that wouldn't offend an average person may offend them. I am not sure exactly why some one would be upset about this. It doesn't say a person is any less of a woman. My sister had a hysterectomy she doesn't need the pelvic exam either. She wasn't offended and she was born female.

Trans people. that go the other way, ftms are exactly opposite. They will boldly talk about things like this.

 

[X Factor]

Here I thought I had this cool controversial topic to discuss and it seems like we all pretty much agree.

Borrrrrring.

 

[mak2]

Damn, dontcha hate that?

Here I thought I had this cool controversial topic to discuss and it seems like we all pretty much agree.

Borrrrrring.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

No, I think it would be unethical for a doctor to pretend the exam was necessary for any reason. They get in trouble when they do that for pain.

Based on my limited experience with trans people. Mtfs seem to be very sensitive if there is anything that suggests they are not a woman just like any other. Things that wouldn't offend an average person may offend them. I am not sure exactly why some one would be upset about this. It doesn't say a person is any less of a woman. My sister had a hysterectomy she doesn't need the pelvic exam either. She wasn't offended and she was born female.

Trans people. that go the other way, ftms are exactly opposite. They will boldly talk about things like this.

That's interesting. I wonder if it has something to do with where we are with MtF versus FtM procedures, respectively.

We're able to get really convincing results with MtF surgery these days. Pretty much normal sexual function and essentially no significant sign of transition in some cases. They can go about their daily lives really being completely female... and then they're faced with the fact that it's not perfect when they realize they still have to see specialist doctors.

FtM surgery, on the other hand, has a ways to go. Building a penis is a little more complicated in a way, because it's basically an external hydraulics system. Our results for MtF's aren't as convincing or as easily functional. FtM procedures elsewhere on the body are very good, but the genitals are still a work in progress. So perhaps they develop better coping strategies since they have to deal with this fact more often.

 

[X Factor]

That's interesting. I wonder if it has something to do with where we are with MtF versus FtM procedures, respectively.

We're able to get really convincing results with MtF surgery these days. Pretty much normal sexual function and essentially no significant sign of transition in some cases. They can go about their daily lives really being completely female... and then they're faced with the fact that it's not perfect when they realize they still have to see specialist doctors.

FtM surgery, on the other hand, has a ways to go. Building a penis is a little more complicated in a way, because it's basically an external hydraulics system. Our results for MtF's aren't as convincing or as easily functional. FtM procedures elsewhere on the body are very good, but the genitals are still a work in progress. So perhaps they develop better coping strategies since they have to deal with this fact more often.

I don't know about the genitals but I've seen female to male transexuals on TV that I would never guess they started out women. Usually, I can still see the "maleness" in those who are male to female. Really, no point to this, just an observation.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I don't know about the genitals but I've seen female to male transexuals on TV that I would never guess they started out women. Usually, I can still see the "maleness" in those who are male to female. Really, no point to this, just an observation.

Yeah, hormones and top surgery for MtF are very good. For FtM, a lot of it depends on when they start transition. Starting younger will usually be more successful with fewer procedures.