Is there any way to cure a truther?[W:2707]

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

are the "shoe bomb" & "underwear bomb" REAL, or simply more false flag to keep the public on high alert?
someplace some how, the boogie man is out there to get you and you NEED homeland security to protect you.

Ya, .... right ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

another post with no supporting evidence.
Basically, you are accusing the passengers as either liers or being part of the plot.

imo, you should seek some mental health advice, if life is nothing more than a govt conspiracy to you.

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

interesting you quoted Hitler.
So are you saying the US govt leaders are acting like Hitler?

and what freedoms have you lost since 911. How has the Patriot Act really impacted you?

in little steps, YES I say most definitely AMERICA has lost a lot in the 12 years since the FALSE FLAG ATTACK.
Note that the NSA collects up phone data without any warrant and this practice continues to this day, and
what is being done? We the people KNOW that everything that goes on the internet is subject to surveillance.
and yet what gets done, a few token protests?

Big Brother is Watching because he is a VOYEUR
I say F.U. Big Brother!

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

in little steps, YES I say most definitely AMERICA has lost a lot in the 12 years since the FALSE FLAG ATTACK.
Note that the NSA collects up phone data without any warrant and this practice continues to this day, and
what is being done? We the people KNOW that everything that goes on the internet is subject to surveillance.
and yet what gets done, a few token protests?

Big Brother is Watching because he is a VOYEUR
I say F.U. Big Brother!

If you live in the US, why are you if you believe the govt is so evil?

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

If you live in the US, why are you if you believe the govt is so evil?

There are two ways of looking at this,

1> Run away to a country that has a better system.

2> Stay & try to make things better.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

There are two ways of looking at this,

1> Run away to a country that has a better system.

2> Stay & try to make things better.

that is one of your more sensible answers.
so how do you want to reconcile when the PEOPLE have two or more opposing opinions on what happened on 911. You claim false flag, etc. I and others do not.

It is amazing and interesting that while your answer was sensible you failed to mention which one you would do?

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

that is one of your more sensible answers.
so how do you want to reconcile when the PEOPLE have two or more opposing opinions on what happened on 911. You claim false flag, etc. I and others do not.

It is amazing and interesting that while your answer was sensible you failed to mention which one you would do?

its not relevant to this discussion as to me personally
I could be posting my stuff from an island someplace outside the U.S.A.
or I could be in possession of a ticket to exit the U.S.A. right now,
or I could be staying here because I want to help make constructive changes.

HOWEVER, the final arbiter of the reality of that FALSE FLAG OPERATION,
is the violations of the laws of physics, YOU may not get it, I'm sorry,
I may be totally inadequate to explain it, but there are many instances
of bits that if the official story is taken seriously, there would have to
be a violation of the laws of physics to pull off what was done.

 

[SanderO]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

its not relevant to this discussion as to me personally
I could be posting my stuff from an island someplace outside the U.S.A.
or I could be in possession of a ticket to exit the U.S.A. right now,
or I could be staying here because I want to help make constructive changes.

HOWEVER, the final arbiter of the reality of that FALSE FLAG OPERATION,
is the violations of the laws of physics, YOU may not get it, I'm sorry,
I may be totally inadequate to explain it, but there are many instances
of bits that if the official story is taken seriously, there would have to
be a violation of the laws of physics to pull off what was done.

Total BS.
No laws of physics were violated...
We see the MIC itchin' for war again. That's what they do... they are hammers and everything is a nail to them. That will not change. The USS corporatocracy gave rise to terrorism and insurgency. Why don't you blame imperialism. Haven't you seen how colonies and the oppressed react? Don't you know your history? Why can't you accept that there was a terrorist attack on the US? Is that so difficult to wrap your mind around? Why must it have had to have been a false flag?

Yes... there WERE lies in the official story. I've suggested WHY these asshats lie. And they are always lying to bait and switch, to protect their friends, to enrich themselves and their friends, to avoid criminal prosecution and the list goes on what people in power DO with their power. And they do it every time whenever ANYTHING happens. Power wants more power, more wealth, more control and less opposition. This crew has been calling the shots forever... and they are at it again right now. And they'll do it and likely get away with it.

Stop wasting your time with the laws of physics and fairy tales about CD and work to get the democracy back... there are many political things to be done... acting hysterical about false flags and so forth is not going to change the power structure in this nation. Of course those that do work toward that are label gate keepers and dis info agents and working for the NWO. This is such far out rubbish that it's become laughable. And most sensible people see this as insane. The truth movement can't even agree on what they think happened.

It's beyond pathetic at this point.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

If you live in the US, why are you if you believe the govt is so evil?

Because some of us, most of us, love our country. And we are smart enough to comprehend that one's country and its government are 2 separate entities. It's not really a complex issue, but some people just don't get it--the government and the country are 2 different things, apples and oranges.

And as for me I still hope that the people will somehow prevail in the battle with abusive government, as men have fought for centuries. I wish the official story were true, I really do. I hate to really contemplate the fact that the same government I worked for would cover up what actually happened.

I doubt very much Congress had anything to do with the planning of the events. But I know very well, the record is most clear, that it knows everything about the coverup of what happened that day. And by their silence they abet the crime done.

I'm not happy that Ike's worst nightmares have come true with a vengeance, but they have and there's little I can do about it except complain.

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Because some of us, most of us, love our country. And we are smart enough to comprehend that one's country and its government are 2 separate entities. It's not really a complex issue, but some people just don't get it--the government and the country are 2 different things, apples and oranges.

And as for me I still hope that the people will somehow prevail in the battle with abusive government, as men have fought for centuries. I wish the official story were true, I really do. I hate to really contemplate the fact that the same government I worked for would cover up what actually happened.

I doubt very much Congress had anything to do with the planning of the events. But I know very well, the record is most clear, that it knows everything about the coverup of what happened that day. And by their silence they abet the crime done.

I'm not happy that Ike's worst nightmares have come true with a vengeance, but they have and there's little I can do about it except complain.

May I suggest, that if enough people in this land sensed that something
was indeed wrong and badly wrong enough to take somekinda action,
a truly legal & non-violent action that would be a good thing to do,
would be to boycott the end of the year buying frenzy that is so heavily promoted.
WE THE PEOPLE could cost GREED INC hundreds of millions $ in their projected sales.
Kick Daddy Big Bux right in the money bags where it will be sure to be felt.
What do you say? AMERICA, are we MAD AS HELL .... yet?

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

its not relevant to this discussion as to me personally
I could be posting my stuff from an island someplace outside the U.S.A.
or I could be in possession of a ticket to exit the U.S.A. right now,
or I could be staying here because I want to help make constructive changes.

HOWEVER, the final arbiter of the reality of that FALSE FLAG OPERATION,
is the violations of the laws of physics, YOU may not get it, I'm sorry,
I may be totally inadequate to explain it, but there are many instances
of bits that if the official story is taken seriously, there would have to
be a violation of the laws of physics to pull off what was done.

So your saying those who disagree with you have not clue?
Don't think you can back that up.

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

A big problem with truther thinking is they can't see the event with any objectivity at all... everything is seen through a political filter which is... everything that comes from the media is 100% lying... everything that the government says is 100% lying. Of course both the media and the gov do lie and spin. Everyone spins... even their resumes are spin. Does that make a resume a total fabrication? NO

Then believing they gov and the media are complete liars they make the obvious logical flaw and INTERPRET the lies and think that these interpretations are the FACTS. If the gov story about the collapses is false... you simply cannot conclude that it was a CD an inside job or anything. But that's what they do. And then they pick a few items and connect them as evidence of malfeasance. But they make these connections up... because they start with the notion that the insiders did it.

The fact that I used to believe the official story blows everything you just said right out of the water.

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Hmm it seems I mistook a quote similar to the reply to MK my bad. Doesn't change the fact that it was 4 planes hijacked and crashed on 911 I am glad you admit to this though I am perplexed at your apparent contradiction in claiming there was also no plane at the Pentagon. What happened to that plane?
As to the crashes they are completely logical and do not contradict any laws of physics. just because you do not comprehend how something happened does not mean it contravenes any law of physics.
BTW the surveillance does show a plane it is granny and crappy footage but this isn't CSI this is real life and guess what unlike TV shows most video surveillance cameras suck big time. Look at any news program that shows any footage from a crime it is grainy and crappy unlike the fictional TV shows where they enhance it to HDTV quality images.

Now do you have any actual evidence or just your own lack of comprehension of physics to make your claims of whatever CT you personally believe in?

I cannot tell you what actually happened to the hijacked plane itself, and I'm not going to invent some crazy conspiracy theory as to where it went. You will never see me post something that the facts don't suggest. What I CAN say is a jumbo jet did not strike the pentagon. Why? Because that is what the facts suggest. FACT: Initial hole in the pentagon way too small for jumbo jet FACT: No large jumbo jet pieces outside of building. CONCLUSION: No large pieces outside, hole too small for plane to have gone inside = NO PLANE at the pentagon

Now, please explain how the plane going inside a hole too small is not a fantasy, but how just making an observation and accepting the facts is a fantasy? Also, please post 1 frame of grainy and crappy footage where we might be able to make out a jumbo jet - you know, to back your claim.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

I cannot tell you what actually happened to the hijacked plane itself, and I'm not going to invent some crazy conspiracy theory as to where it went. You will never see me post something that the facts don't suggest. What I CAN say is a jumbo jet did not strike the pentagon. Why? Because that is what the facts suggest. FACT: Initial hole in the pentagon way too small for jumbo jet FACT: No large jumbo jet pieces outside of building. CONCLUSION: No large pieces outside, hole too small for plane to have gone inside = NO PLANE at the pentagon

Now, please explain how the plane going inside a hole too small is not a fantasy, but how just making an observation and accepting the facts is a fantasy? Also, please post 1 frame of grainy and crappy footage where we might be able to make out a jumbo jet - you know, to back your claim.

seems even some of your CT groups don't agree with you.
while the link discusses the flyover theory it has interesting statements.
http://stj911.org/legge/Legge_Chandler_NOC_Refutation.htmlhttp://stj911.org/legge/Legge_Chandler_NOC_Refutation.html

"The physical evidence at the Pentagon is consistent with the view that a plane with the wingspan of a Boeing 757 flew into the Pentagon "

there are other sites that have photos that make it clear that your premise only a round hole is not exactly correct.
try searching. I have already in other posts/threads provided the links.

 

[Menard_K]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

So your saying those who disagree with you have not clue?
Don't think you can back that up.

I make the statement that all the evidence points to there having been no hijacked
airliners that day. I see violations of the laws of physics in the mainstream media's
explanation of what happened and some people simply brush it aside by saying
that no laws of physics were violated. OK, one of us is wrong, lets let history sort it out.
Note that many years after the fact, the Gulf of Tonkin fiasco was discovered to have been
total FRAUD. I'm confident that in time, the truth will come out.

In the meantime, have fun with that fairy tale about the 19 Arab fanatics.

.... whatever ......

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

interesting you quoted Hitler.
So are you saying the US govt leaders are acting like Hitler?

and what freedoms have you lost since 911. How has the Patriot Act really impacted you?

I guess you haven't noticed that advocates of freedom and rights to bear arms, and even "preppers" are being labeled "terrorists"....?

I quoted Hitler because you asked for some clarification of my concerns, and that particular quote is so applicable.

"erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.”

"the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed" - you are proof of this...

"until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” At the height of the Iraq war US military used about 6 million rounds of ammo per month. DHS has made ammo purchases totaling 2 billion rounds of hollow points for "training". You don't use hollow points for training. Are we nearing the point where those changes cannot be reversed? Changes you are obviously not aware of - and we have all this phony "terrorism" that you have bought hook line and sinker to thank for it. The patriot act just got the ball rolling on dismantling the constitution. By itself, if they had not continued in that direction, it would be relatively harmless - so they now allow illegal wiretaps. Big deal - doesn't affect me.

HOWEVER, the patriot act paved the way for other things like the NDAA. Does mike2810 know he can be arrested and indefinitely detained without trial, no right to an attorney, and no 3 phone calls under a clause in the NDAA that has a deliberate vagueness to it when it comes to persons covered? California acknowledges and is trying to pass a bill protecting its citizens:

NDAA Nullification Bill Headed to Floor of California State Senate

The president and leon panetta have decided they no longer need the permission of congress to go to war. THEY DECIDED THAT and informed congress.

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

seems even some of your CT groups don't agree with you.
while the link discusses the flyover theory it has interesting statements http://stj911.org/legge/Legge_Chandler_NOC_Refutation.htmlhttp://stj911.org/legge/Legge_Chandler_NOC_Refutation.html

"The physical evidence at the Pentagon is consistent with the view that a plane with the wingspan of a Boeing 757 flew into the Pentagon "

there are other sites that have photos that make it clear that your premise only a round hole is not exactly correct.
try searching. I have already in other posts/threads provided the links.

It was a broken link..

There are photos existing that clearly show 2 stages of damage. The early photos that were taken after impact that clearly show only a small round hole that is consistent with a missile strike, and then the photos showing more extensive damage after bombs went off. The floors had collapsed. Did those "pancake" as well?

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

There are photos existing that clearly show 2 stages of damage. The early photos that were taken after impact that clearly show only a small round hole that is consistent with a missile strike, and then the photos showing more extensive damage after bombs went off. The floors had collapsed. Did those "pancake" as well?

Don't believe ME - let the 911 commissioner tell you in his own words...

 

[SanderO]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

It was a broken link..

There are photos existing that clearly show 2 stages of damage. The early photos that were taken after impact that clearly show only a small round hole that is consistent with a missile strike, and then the photos showing more extensive damage after bombs went off. The floors had collapsed. Did those "pancake" as well?

Uou need to consider the mass distribution of the jet and the nature of the material/construction of the facade. Consider that the entire profile of the jet would not have the same density with the mass being concentrated below the deck line of cabin. Above that it was mostly air... below it was dense with tanks, landing gear, luggage, and the keel itself. The pentagon was a brick facade not large steel panels like the twin towers. The impact hole/damage would be different.

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Uou need to consider the mass distribution of the jet and the nature of the material/construction of the facade. Consider that the entire profile of the jet would not have the same density with the mass being concentrated below the deck line of cabin. Above that it was mostly air... below it was dense with tanks, landing gear, luggage, and the keel itself. The pentagon was a brick facade not large steel panels like the twin towers. The impact hole/damage would be different.

Let's generously say that the wings exploded and completely disintegrated on impact because of the fuel in the wings. At the very least, there would be a large part of the tail section that would have broken off and remained outside. Don't forget, this whole business of everything vaporizing as an explanation why nothing is there - as far as I know, has never happened. Yet, they act like it's the norm. I haven't checked, but I'd be willing to bet that if you try to search for past plane crashes where the plane vaporized, you wouldn't find any. Every plane crash in history, you find large sections of the plane at the site.

 

[SanderO]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

Let's generously say that the wings exploded and completely disintegrated on impact because of the fuel in the wings. At the very least, there would be a large part of the tail section that would have broken off and remained outside. Don't forget, this whole business of everything vaporizing as an explanation why nothing is there - as far as I know, has never happened. Yet, they act like it's the norm. I haven't checked, but I'd be willing to bet that if you try to search for past plane crashes where the plane vaporized, you wouldn't find any. Every plane crash in history, you find large sections of the plane at the site.

How do you know they wings would explode and disintegrate? Maybe they would... they are aluminum beams and an aluminum skin... designed to resist some forces but who know what happens in colliding with a solid masonry wall and perhaps a fuel air explosion? Maybe the thinn aluminum burnt up? Why not? I don't know.. do you? The tail is not solid either. It's mostly air and a thin alum skin with some strong aluminum framing inside. Why would you expect it to penetrate the reinforced masonry wall? Why not break apart and some of it burn in the fuel air event? The size of the opening may correspond to the keel punching through wall and blowing out a larger hole? Why should the whole match the fuselage profile?

No everything did not vaporize... but neither did nothing vaporize either. If it was a big jet slamming into the reinforced wall...it's never happened before and so how does anyone know what to expect? You can't know what to expect because it's never happened before. So you try to model what might have happened. You need to input data into your model and simulate the event. Have you done that?

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

In reviewing all of the posts starting from when I joined this thread. I've noticed a pattern. Everytime a certain aspect becomes a focal point - a brief back-and-forth will ensue, non-truthers go on and on with a lot of talk but no links (the idea I'm getting is that nothing more than their comments are good enough to support their claims). What usually follows, is a threadstopper post by myself where I'll make some hard to refute points, where I'll issue a challenge, then everybody hides till it blows over, then we're back to arguing again.

AGAIN, whenever I make threadstopping points that you have to either acknowledge, or make some really good counterpoints, we see these kinds of responses from people who can't admit that THEY are the delusional fanatics:

1. total fiction it was a list of victims the perps were not victims
2. total nonsense no need to rebut
3. total make believe no need to rebut

When I make these points, please rebutt them with valid arguments and source links (when necessary). If you don't, fine, but don't wait until it blows over and then come back running your mouth again about how truthers are "delusional".

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

How do you know they wings would explode and disintegrate? Maybe they would... they are aluminum beams and an aluminum skin... designed to resist some forces but who know what happens in colliding with a solid masonry wall and perhaps a fuel air explosion? Maybe the thinn aluminum burnt up? Why not? I don't know.. do you? The tail is not solid either. It's mostly air and a thin alum skin with some strong aluminum framing inside. Why would you expect it to penetrate the reinforced masonry wall? Why not break apart and some of it burn in the fuel air event? The size of the opening may correspond to the keel punching through wall and blowing out a larger hole? Why should the whole match the fuselage profile?

No everything did not vaporize... but neither did nothing vaporize either. If it was a big jet slamming into the reinforced wall...it's never happened before and so how does anyone know what to expect? You can't know what to expect because it's never happened before. So you try to model what might have happened. You need to input data into your model and simulate the event. Have you done that?

I'm not positive, but somewhere I've heard that the pentagon was built like a brick ****house, and the walls were so many feet thick,etc. and it makes sense that it would be, being the nerve center of the US military. An aluminum plane should have hit it like a bug on a windshield, in my opinion.

 

[SanderO]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

I'm not positive, but somewhere I've heard that the pentagon was built like a brick ****house, and the walls were so many feet thick,etc. and it makes sense that it would be, being the nerve center of the US military. An aluminum plane should have hit it like a bug on a windshield, in my opinion.

You heard somewhere... you need to be more precise when you refer to the wall construction. It was a masonry building and so it was made of individual units... bricks or blocks or both and likely a steel frame masonry infill. And yes it was strong as any masonry building would be but it was not built as a fortress with walls 5 feet thick.

It makes sense to you but your make sense is based on your own assumptions. I don't think the designers of the pentagon contemplated a tank assault on the building... do you? Yea.. you probably do.

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

I cannot tell you what actually happened to the hijacked plane itself, and I'm not going to invent some crazy conspiracy theory as to where it went. You will never see me post something that the facts don't suggest. What I CAN say is a jumbo jet did not strike the pentagon. Why? Because that is what the facts suggest. FACT: Initial hole in the pentagon way too small for jumbo jet FACT: No large jumbo jet pieces outside of building. CONCLUSION: No large pieces outside, hole too small for plane to have gone inside = NO PLANE at the pentagon

Now, please explain how the plane going inside a hole too small is not a fantasy, but how just making an observation and accepting the facts is a fantasy? Also, please post 1 frame of grainy and crappy footage where we might be able to make out a jumbo jet - you know, to back your claim.

Nope you don't understand anything about crashing objects to have come to that conclusion the evidence clearly points to a plane hitting the Pentagon.

Hmm no wing holes on this one either must have been a fake kamikaze attack.
You obviously have fallen for truther lies again. I don't know how many times we have to point out to you people that when you get your information from truther sites you are getting it from people who are lying on purpose none of them contain anything about the truth. They do not care about the truth they only care about trying to make a quick buck off the gullible.

So you have a simple and fully explainable event of a hijacked plane hitting the Pentagon causing the damage which despite all the truther nonsense complies with all the laws of physics or you have a complex scenario where a plane is hijacked then disappears and some other object is then used to hit the Pentagon. Hmm don't have to be a genius to see which of the 2 scenarios makes absolutely no sense

 

[Quag]

Re: Is there any way to cure a truther?

In reviewing all of the posts starting from when I joined this thread. I've noticed a pattern. Everytime a certain aspect becomes a focal point - a brief back-and-forth will ensue, non-truthers go on and on with a lot of talk but no links (the idea I'm getting is that nothing more than their comments are good enough to support their claims). What usually follows, is a threadstopper post by myself where I'll make some hard to refute points, where I'll issue a challenge, then everybody hides till it blows over, then we're back to arguing again.

AGAIN, whenever I make threadstopping points that you have to either acknowledge, or make some really good counterpoints, we see these kinds of responses from people who can't admit that THEY are the delusional fanatics:

1. total fiction it was a list of victims the perps were not victims
2. total nonsense no need to rebut
3. total make believe no need to rebut

When I make these points, please rebutt them with valid arguments and source links (when necessary). If you don't, fine, but don't wait until it blows over and then come back running your mouth again about how truthers are "delusional".

They are only threadstopping points in your own mind. Either they are completely unrelated or they are based on faulty information or they just don't make any sense. You have to raelize that your perception of events is not reality.

You do not back up any of your claims and like every other truther out there continue to shift the goalposts. When one point is slammed down (as they all are) you then go oh yeah but what about the thermite explosions? when it is pointed out thermite does not explode and could not explain the collapse you claim oh yeah but what about the crash at shanksville it didn't look like a crash. when it is pointed out there are other crashes that look similar you go oh yeah but what abou the pentagon the video footage was all seized and never released. When it is pointed out the footage has been released and is actually shown to you yo go Oh yeah but what about the hle at the Pentagon it doesn't have holes for the wings. When it is pointed out that this is not extraordinary or against the law of physics you go oh yeah but what about the pulling of WTC7 when it is pointed out that pulling does not mean to bring down and was referencing to the pulling of the firemen from the building you go oh yeah but what about the flux capacitor etc etc..
You cannot stay consitantly on any one aspect because every single bit of the 911 CT has been shown to be either irrelevant or just plain false.