Is the U.S. ready for Socialism?

[Van Basten]

You define "True Socialism" differently than the Corporate-Cronnie-Welfare-Statism we see being called "Socialism" in America...

Okay, Fair Enough, from here on, I will refer to the Corporate-Cronnie-Welfare-Statism as Progressive-Fascism.

BOTH ideals have proven to be hugely dysfunctional, irresponsible, and corruptible over and over and over and over again!

I do NOT support any attempt to bring EITHER "Socialism" or Progressive-Fascism to America!

-

I admire your vigor.

It always ends like Canada? That wouldn't be so bad. I thought Canada was just the exception though.

Personally I think people are too polarized. There are already some socialist programs hiding in America and I don't mean the ACA which is really a waterlogged bandaid for the issue of healthcare.
I don't think we are going to become a socialist country anytime soon but I do think America might be ready to adopt some new socialist policies.

There are no socialist programs in this country.

There is plenty of socialism in this country. Labor and welfare-subsidy laws are definitely socialistic. I don't see how else they can be defined. :shrug:

None of that stuff is socialist, they're not the brainchildren of socialists.

Also reminds me of Fabian socialism.

The Fabian society is more or less the poster-boy of reformism.

 

[Geoist]

None of that stuff is socialist, they're not the brainchildren of socialists.

What definition of socialism are you using?

 

[TGN]

I support what has worked well for over 200 years in America, the concept of Federalism(meaning most power is retained by the local and state government), implemented by a Constitutionally Limited Democratic Republic.-

What you described is administrative organizing and not the economic system. You could have federalism in a socialist economy, too. Libertarian socialist might be strongly in favor of it, for example. The idea of decentralizing public administration is not unique to say capitalism.

 

[Mr Person]

Sanders did better than Debbs, sure, but look at the candidates....

In other words, his run isn't so much a support for what he defines as "Democratic Socialism" as it is utter disdain for the others. Like his policies or not, one must admit that he's a straight shooter.



Key fact: Socialism is the government ownership of the means of production. The only thing like it in Sanders' policies are single-payer health care.....

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

There is no socialism coming, so what's there to get ready for?



The democratic socialists are really just pushing the same progressive capitalist policies that liberals used to champion. You could say many Americans are just yearning for New Deal coalition era liberalism, the good stuff.

No matter how many times I try to get that across, most times the response sounds and smells like a copy/paste from the minutes of a Bircher meeting. Yeah, I think Sanders probably should have just become a Democrat a long time ago but some old baby boomers like to keep a few strands of hair in a long thin ponytail on the back of their otherwise balding heads just to prove that they can still let their freak flag fly.
Sanders loves to call himself a democratic socialist because he probably thinks it makes him exotic and exciting but in the end he's just a New Deal Liberal and a very effective one.

I like him a lot and I hope he wins but I would still have to laugh because most of the real actual "Socialists" that I know think he is a sellout for even trying to seriously win the White House or caucusing with the Dems. They're too high and mighty with the lofty principles.

And John Steinbeck's famous still applies and always will apply. Socialism ain't comin to America and the only time it had a serious chance was back in the 1930's when capitalism had completely and utterly failed the ENTIRE country and almost half the workforce was idled.

If Sanders were to win, the news media would have an epic freakout.
Fer Chrissakes, when Obama won in 2009, I think it was Newsweek who put out this cover:



I guess they were hoping it would trigger the race war.
Looks like they may have shot their wad prematurely, eh?
They would have to drag out the hammer and sickle for Bernie, right?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The revisionism comes from both angles, unfortunately. Far-right propagandists label such programs 'socialist' because they think it'll energize their fellows, and left-wing propagandists do precisely the same thing for precisely the same reasons :lol:

AND HOW!
The social justice warriors, the regressive hippie dippie left, the lefty anarchists, the real actual socialists, and the rainbow farting unicorn worshippers are almost all in orgasmic thrall on campuses, in the town squares, at the political rallies and in the left media.
Some of the most hardcore left are indignant, wondering why no one wants a taste of the real thing.
And then there are the "Bernie or Bust/Bernie Bro" crowd, who seem willing to toss the whole thing to Trump if they don't get 100% of their way RIGHT NOW.

It's mind numbing, I need to find a sidewalk chalk drawing to piss on.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The only real capitalism going on in the USSR was during the 30's when American firms shamefully made a fortune in the days of Stalinism.

 

[TGN]

Key fact: Socialism is the government ownership of the means of production. The only thing like it in Sanders' policies are single-payer health care.....

Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production, as in ownership by the people at large. If by "government" you mean a centralized state then you overlook examples such libertarian socialism, anarcho-syndicalism and, perhaps, democratic confederalism (which is purportedly happening in present-day Rojava, you'll have to research it yourself).

This is the socialism Orwell observed during the Spanish Civil War:

"One had breathed the air of equality. I am well aware that it is now the fashion to deny that Socialism has anything to do with equality. In every country in the world a huge tribe of party-hacks and sleek little professors are busy 'proving' that Socialism means no more than a planned state-capitalism with the grab-motive left intact. But fortunately there also exists a vision of Socialism quite different from this." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia

 

[katzgar]

You are right, in a way, its not coming. Its here. Its been here for several generations now, growing steadily across that expanse of time. Its not the Soviet style socialism that enslaves and impoverishes the population over which it rules, but the European variety that slowly chokes the motivation and prosperity out of the people like weeds through an untreated lawn.

bull crap, the germans have been socialist for over 100 years and are very successful.

 

[Tigerace117]

bull crap, the germans have been socialist for over 100 years and are very successful.

They've been socialist since 1916?

That's an......odd idea.

 

[Grand Mal]

bull crap, the germans have been socialist for over 100 years and are very successful.

buncha crap

 

[Grand Mal]

They've been socialist since 1916?

That's an......odd idea.

Odd? It's asinine. The dude doesn't have a clue what 'socialism' means.

 

[katzgar]

this quote is from the history channel. Otto von Bismarck..... "establishing national healthcare (1883), accident insurance (1884) and old age pensions (1889). " I was off on the hundred years part.

 

[Renae]

There is no socialism coming, so what's there to get ready for?



The democratic socialists are really just pushing the same progressive capitalist policies that liberals used to champion. You could say many Americans are just yearning for New Deal coalition era liberalism, the good stuff.



Radical democratic control over the spheres of a classless society with the abolition of private property and worker control (industrial democracy). All with a fetish for mediocrity.

A bloody scam that always ends the same way.

The New Deal is the source of most of the problems in this country, the Great Society, doubling down on the fail of the ND exasperated it. What we're seeing is the break down of our education system and the infantilization of the nation. "Vote for me, I'll take care of you!" syndrome.

 

[katzgar]

The New Deal is the source of most of the problems in this country, the Great Society, doubling down on the fail of the ND exasperated it. What we're seeing is the break down of our education system and the infantilization of the nation. "Vote for me, I'll take care of you!" syndrome.

not even close to true. like I said germany has had socialist programs for over 100 years and does very well. you are being dishonest.

 

[Texmex]

Come on, it is obvious, and my parents were desperate that I be not one of the stupid ones.

Well, at least they gave it a shot. Unfortunately, being a Trump supporter, you show they were unsuccessful.

 

[Renae]

not even close to true. like I said germany has had socialist programs for over 100 years and does very well. you are being dishonest.

We aren't Germany, you are the one being dishonest.

 

[katzgar]

We aren't Germany, you are the one being dishonest.

that has got to be the most absurd non sequiters ever on record. Your statement has nothing to do with anything. and no I am not dishonest, germany has had universal medicine for 130 years. Play like an adult or go away.

 

[Van Basten]

The New Deal is the source of most of the problems in this country, the Great Society, doubling down on the fail of the ND exasperated it. What we're seeing is the break down of our education system and the infantilization of the nation. "Vote for me, I'll take care of you!" syndrome.

This week in poorly crafted, right wing propaganda.

Bro, stop, just stop.

 

[BitterPill]

Socialism is crashing and burning the world over and Sanders is just a snake oil salesman selling a " light " version of Socialism to the naive and ignorant.

He appeals to those who think that Capitalism and Free markets caused the 2008 Crisis, to those think that Govt can and should be the arbiter of whats '' fair and equal ".

Sanders is a liar and a fraud. He tries to sell Single Payer but never mentions the fact that his home State of Vermont had to abandon its Single Payer initaive because the tax increases needed to pay for it woud have crushed their economy

He rails against the evil banks but fails to mention the two most corrupt and influential Financial agencies involved in the 2008 Subprime Collapse.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who according to a 2011 SEC investigation committed unprecedented Securities fraud by hiding hundreds of Billions of dollars in worthless debt from the SEC

It wasn't " Capitalism " or the Free market that caussd the 2008 Subprime Crisis. It was unprecdented Govt intervention into the private sector economy that cause it

He says we can borrow and spend our way to prosperity by " investing in infrastructure " even though " Stimulus to increase aggregate demand " has failed miserably in the past.

Japan blew through 100 Trillion Yen in the 90's " investing in infrastructure " just so their economy could stagnate while their GDP to debt ratio grew to be the largest in the world.

He wants to raise taxes on investors, corporations and the wealthy and drive away investment in our economy while increasing our debt exponentially

He would turn all of America into the economic and fiscal basket case that is California.

Sadly (for you), California is doing quite well, and all it had to do was squeeze the GOP out enough to let the adults run things.

 

[Fenton]

Sadly (for you), California is doing quite well, and all it had to do was squeeze the GOP out enough to let the adults run things.

:lamo :lamo :lamo You CANT be this uniformed and this naive......


California has the Nations Highest Poverty rate...
Census Bureau: California still has highest U.S. poverty rate | The Sacramento Bee


California has the Nations Highest Child Poverty rate...
Census Bureau: California still has highest U.S. poverty rate | The Sacramento Bee


L.A. tops nation in chronic homeless population
L.A. tops nation in chronic homeless population - LA Times



Homeless ‘State of Emergency’ in San Francisco
Homeless 'State of Emergency' in San Francisco - Breitbart



California’s net worth is negative $127.2 billion
California?s net worth is negative $127.2 billion | Politics in the Zeros


California lost 9,000 business HQs and expansions, mostly to Texas, 7-year study says
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2015/11/california-lost-9-000-business-hqs-and-expansions.html

 

[Renae]

This week in poorly crafted, right wing propaganda.

Bro, stop, just stop.

No, it's quite accurate. The New Deal shifted focus of power from local to federal, your city and state to DC.

It's not propaganda, it's a very real shift in attitude

 

[Van Basten]

No, it's quite accurate. The New Deal shifted focus of power from local to federal, your city and state to DC.

It's not propaganda, it's a very real shift in attitude

How evil!

I'm very much a fan of how FDR enhanced federal power, so spare me.

 

[Renae]

How evil!

I'm very much a fan of how FDR enhanced federal power, so spare me.

Just because you like corruption and an unaccountable, bloated system doesn't make my commentary wrong.

FDR Harmed America.

 

[katzgar]

:lamo :lamo :lamo You CANT be this uniformed and this naive......


California has the Nations Highest Poverty rate...
Census Bureau: California still has highest U.S. poverty rate | The Sacramento Bee


California has the Nations Highest Child Poverty rate...
Census Bureau: California still has highest U.S. poverty rate | The Sacramento Bee


L.A. tops nation in chronic homeless population
L.A. tops nation in chronic homeless population - LA Times



Homeless ‘State of Emergency’ in San Francisco
Homeless 'State of Emergency' in San Francisco - Breitbart



California’s net worth is negative $127.2 billion
California?s net worth is negative $127.2 billion | Politics in the Zeros


California lost 9,000 business HQs and expansions, mostly to Texas, 7-year study says
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2015/11/california-lost-9-000-business-hqs-and-expansions.html

more businesses are entering cali than are leaving but I can see truth isnt a value to you. quoting breitbart just makes you look foolish.