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Is the GOP racist? Is it classist?

washunut said:
No problem discussing race. Do have a problem with manifest dishonesty.
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People who have problems discussing race rarely admit that they have problems discussing race.
 
washunut said:
Wow and I thought that my post was so on point. I guess the reason I respond this way ( can't speak for others) is that the questioner is clearly viewing the world through a prism of race versus race. Plus it just seems like such as weak response to the many, left and right who feel this president is a disappointment.

Maybe we should call it the Chris Matthews excuse. Someone who equates any negative discussion of the President to people who do not want a black president to succeed.

Perhaps it is stupidity not racism, pick your poison.
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That is more of a valid response. I'm sure it cannot be simplified to one single reason. But let's assume that prejudice does play some role. Is it wrong to consider to what degree it plays a role? I think trying to be colorblind would be just as bad as to be so narrowminded as to see it only in terms of race. Race does play some factor, no matter how small, and pretending it plays absolutely none is just as disingenuous as arguing it is entirely the problem.
 
CriticalThought said:
A few years ago I would have vehemently disagreed with what this poster said, but I am considerably less convinced now that the GOP isn't motivated by an unconscious prejudice.

It just seems so odd how many unprecedented actions the GOP has taken. They have shut down political appointments on a huge scale in both the judicial and executive branches and every old school politician who is retiring, whether Democrat or Republican, is lamenting at the extraordinary amount of animosity that exists at the Capital. It is hard to say what the GOP represents anymore, or even WHO they represent. Are they are just about doing everything they can to shut down Obama, even during those times when what he is aiming for is something that everyone wants?

So many middle class folk seem to feel abandoned by the GOP and I don't hear anything from the GOP that would disprove that they aren't the Grand Old Millionaires and Billionaires Party that they are portrayed by the media to be. Even Republican posters on this forum seem to jump at the chance to declare anyone who disagrees with the GOP's economic policies to be "moochers, parasites, envious, jealous, etc."

Is it racism? Is it classism? What is the source of this great animosity?
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People that start posts like that don't sound very libertarian to me.
 
head of joaquin said:
So you admit that bringing up Al Gore in a discussion of Bush's racist Willy Horton ad was a red herring?
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There was nothing the least bit racist about the Willie Horton ad.

Willie Horton was a dangerous, violent, murderous criminal, who had been sentenced to life in prison without parole, by a judge who intended him never to go free again. Michael Dukakis strongly supported and defended a “prison furlough” program, under which Horton was allowed to go free, during which time he brutally raped a young woman, and attempted to murder her fiancee. After he was convicted and sentences for those crimes, the sentencing judge, Vincent J. Femia, refused to return Horton to Massachusetts, saying, “I'm not prepared to take the chance that Mr. Horton might again be furloughed or otherwise released. This man should never draw a breath of free air again.”

That Michael Dukakis supported and defended the program that set Horton—a convicted murder—free to commit additional crimes was certainly a very valid and damaging point to bring up against him in the campaign. Here we have a man, a credible candidate for President of the United States, who had willfully taken the side of dangerous and violent criminals, and against the honest residents of his state. Of course, that's the side that Democrats usually take, but they are rarely so blatant about it, and there usually isn't as solid and clear an example as Willie Horton to demonstrate just how depraved and irresponsible their positions are.

Of course it is expected that you would cry “racism” over the fact that Willie Horton was black. But the color of his skin had nothing to do with his crimes ,nor with the blood that Dukakis' own hands were stained with for his complicity in Horton's crimes. If Horton had been white, he would still have committed teh same crimes, the very same ad would surely have been run, showing Dukakis' hands to be just as bloodstained.


Your response here is exactly as I have been saying. This is an area where your party, and its primary representative of the time, was spectacularly wrong, taking a position that absolutely cannot be defended on its own merit, leaving you only to accuse those who condemned this indefensible position as “racists” for so doing.
 
Drake McHugh said:
Your site was a joke. Goofle Paula Deen Democrat. You won't like what you find(of course you will just ignore it anyways.
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Still no link to prove your reckless allegation. Typical.
 
specklebang said:
The term "GOP" is to generic. There really are a lot of sub-groups within the overall category.

I have friends who claim to be "Conservative" or "republican" but they really just have fiscal responsibility issues and they aren't anti-gay or anti-legit welfare. So, they aren't claasist or rich.

I do think it's stupid to continue the Obama bashing. After all, he is already elected so wasting time with repeated anti-abortion bills instead of productive actions is pathetic. But it's a minority that does this and then they all get painted with the same brush. Regrettably, this vocal minority repeatedly over-shadows the topics on which the GOP could be contributing.

The animosity game has become the new normal. But America keeps functioning in spite of, not because of our loony politicians.
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The house leadership (I.e boehner cantor etc) seem to be incapable of controling its own caucus.
 
That alone indicates that "GOP" is not so generic. They obviously have factions. That's all I was trying to say - they can't be judged en masse.


Unitedwestand13 said:
The house leadership (I.e boehner cantor etc) seem to be incapable of controling its own caucus.
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ThePlayDrive said:
Yes, the GOP is racist and classist. And when I say, "the GOP", I do not mean every single official or constituent of the GOP is racist or classist. I mean that there is a pervasive enough pattern of racism and classism among Republicans to warrant generalized language in discussing the problem.

That said, my belief that GOP fits those labels is not necessarily rooted in how their refusal to compromise with Obama. It's rooted more in how they tend to speak about blacks and poor people. If you notice - even here on DP - Republicans tend to describe blacks as "brainwashed", more interested in collecting welfare checks than working, lacking "personal responsibility", having a culture that is inferior to "white culture", irresponsible and everything else negative. The primary way in which Republicans speak about black Americans seems to be in a negative way. Moreover, they say things that invoke stereotypes of black people far too often for them to be "coincidence" while also dismissing black concerns of racism as "the race card" or "race baiting".

It's the same for poor people. They imply that poor people are just not working hard enough, that they lack personal responsibility and so on while dismissing their concerns as "class warfare" and calling them "leeches" or "jealous".

In sum, the way that Republicans tend to speak about blacks and the poor indicate to me that racism and classism are pervasive within their ranks.

*Racism and classism exist in the Democratic Party as well, but this thread is about Republicans, so nobody reply to my post with the "they do it too" deflection. I'm not interested.
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Of course this thread is about the Republicans. If it was about Dems you'd be nowhere to be found (or be in vehement denial/defense mode).
 
CriticalThought said:
That is more of a valid response. I'm sure it cannot be simplified to one single reason. But let's assume that prejudice does play some role. Is it wrong to consider to what degree it plays a role? I think trying to be colorblind would be just as bad as to be so narrowminded as to see it only in terms of race. Race does play some factor, no matter how small, and pretending it plays absolutely none is just as disingenuous as arguing it is entirely the problem.
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Does it play a part with some Republicans, yes. Does it play a part on why some democrats voted for Obama yes.

race, religion, gender etc all play a role. I am not blind to that. Just think blanket statements do not help move forward the conversation. Doing that just sends people in their respective corners to fight it out.

Both parties have voting blocks. They both play to those blocks to "solidify their base". That is why I tire of these back and forth bombs each side throws out versus taking on more specific issues.
 
Paula Deen was an Obama supporter
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head of joaquin said:
Ahhhhh no. Nice try though.
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It's a toss up. The fact is, Deen did invite Michelle to cook food with her, while they were on the campaign trail. It's also a fact that she did invite Cindy McCain to cook with her, and it didn't happen.

obamadean.jpg


The right-wing pundits use this to claim she was an Obama supporter, and in fact, giving what is in effect free TV air time to the wife of Obama, was supporting the Obama's. However, it's hard to say that this was because she directly supported Obama, or that she is a democrat, or if this was more for her own benefit as a TV personality.

Because again, she also invited Cindy McCain.

I have yet to find anything anywhere that even tries to establish the political views of Deen, so there's not much to go on either way. She did however, have a show featuring what before Obama, was the worst president in US history, Jimmy Carter, and his wife. Deen has never gotten with the Reagan's, or the Bush's Sr or Jr, nor Dole or Romney.

But that's very slim evidence indeed.

What I will say about this, is that my experience with some groups of people, is that Black people call themselves N's all the time. Rap has it all over. Yet no one screams about it, because it's used in jest. Yet when someone uses it here, the people on the left go crazy. The whole thing seems hypocritical to me.
 
soot said:
Fewer Democrats than Republicans turned out for the last primary.

I do not believe this is true. Actually, I'm pretty certain it is false.
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ThePlayDrive said:
Yes, the GOP is racist and classist. And when I say, "the GOP", I do not mean every single official or constituent of the GOP is racist or classist. I mean that there is a pervasive enough pattern of racism and classism among Republicans to warrant generalized language in discussing the problem.

That said, my belief that GOP fits those labels is not necessarily rooted in how their refusal to compromise with Obama. It's rooted more in how they tend to speak about blacks and poor people. If you notice - even here on DP - Republicans tend to describe blacks as "brainwashed", more interested in collecting welfare checks than working, lacking "personal responsibility", having a culture that is inferior to "white culture", irresponsible and everything else negative. The primary way in which Republicans speak about black Americans seems to be in a negative way. Moreover, they say things that invoke stereotypes of black people far too often for them to be "coincidence" while also dismissing black concerns of racism as "the race card" or "race baiting".

It's the same for poor people. They imply that poor people are just not working hard enough, that they lack personal responsibility and so on while dismissing their concerns as "class warfare" and calling them "leeches" or "jealous".

In sum, the way that Republicans tend to speak about blacks and the poor indicate to me that racism and classism are pervasive within their ranks.

*Racism and classism exist in the Democratic Party as well, but this thread is about Republicans, so nobody reply to my post with the "they do it too" deflection. I'm not interested.
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Are we not allowed to think that a majority of the poor are poor because of their bad decisions without being called racist/classist? I've never heard someone say that "black" culture is some how inferior to "white" culture. But if you are saying that thinking that people should be personally responsible and productive members of society is racism, then it sounds like to me that you are already buying the assumption that one race/culture is superior to another by default. If one buys such an assumption, then perhaps I understand how they think that the only way to fix this natural disparity is to make excuses for the irresponsible and hand checks to the unproductive.
 
ReformCollege said:
Are we not allowed to think that a majority of the poor are poor because of their bad decisions without being called racist/classist?
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You're allowed to think whatever you want.

I've never heard someone say that "black" culture is some how inferior to "white" culture.
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Congratulations, but my comment wasn't about you. I've heard someone say that exact sentence.

But if you are saying that thinking that people should be personally responsible and productive members of society is racism, then it sounds like to me that you are already buying the assumption that one race/culture is superior to another by default.
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That's not what I said so that's not what I'm saying.

If one buys such an assumption, then perhaps I understand how they think that the only way to fix this natural disparity is to make excuses for the irresponsible and hand checks to the unproductive.
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Since I did not make that assumption as discussed above, this comment is erroneous. LOL!
 
ThePlayDrive said:
That's not what I said so that's not what I'm saying.
Since I did not make that assumption as discussed above, this comment is erroneous. LOL!
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You said
Republicans tend to describe blacks as "brainwashed", more interested in collecting welfare checks than working, lacking "personal responsibility", having a culture that is inferior to "white culture", irresponsible and everything else negative.
It's the same for poor people. They imply that poor people are just not working hard enough, that they lack personal responsibility and so on while dismissing their concerns as "class warfare" and calling them "leeches" or "jealous".
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In otherwords, you consider that espousing personal responsibility is classist/racist. I'm the one who believes anyone can improve their life by making good decisions no matter what their circumstances, you're the one who believes that there is something inherently inferior about those who are poor/minority to where personal responsibility and hard work aren't enough.
 
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