Is Obama the last Black POTUS we'll see in our lifetime?

[Patrickt]

I am old and a conservative but there are blacks I would consider voting for this election. Certainly not Barack Obama but decent, experienced, American blacks. Making one person the standard by which a large group is judged is bigotry and that's a liberal trait.

 

[rocket88]

I am old and a conservative but there are blacks I would consider voting for this election. Certainly not Barack Obama but decent, experienced, American blacks. Making one person the standard by which a large group is judged is bigotry and that's a liberal trait.

Are you calling the OP a liberal? Them's fighting words!

 

[j-mac]

Sweden.

Really.. we constantly believe it is the panacea of utopian society.. Hmm..

Do yourself a favor and look up Sweden's economic strength vs the US. along with the quality of health care, education, and overall happiness among its citizens..

No sir, Sweeden is NOT a socialist country. The Library of Congress defines Sweeden's form of government as such:

Sweden is a civil law country. It is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary form of Government.

Legal Research Guide: Sweden | Law Library of Congress

a more lay persons view of Sweeden can be summed up in a Statist culture, coupled with a welfare state. a very good break down is here:

http://www.mises.se/wp-content/pdf/TheMythoftheSocialistParadiseSweden_Summary.pdf

Now if you want to reference Socialist states try these...

Current

People's Republic of China
Republic of Cuba
Lao People's Democratic Republic
Socialist Republic of Vietnam

[edit]Former

Democratic Republic of Afghanistan
People's Socialist Republic of Albania
People's Republic of Angola
People's Republic of Benin
People's Republic of Bulgaria
People's Republic of the Congo
Czechoslovak Republic
Czechoslovak Socialist Republic
Provisional Military Government of Socialist Ethiopia
People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
German Democratic Republic
People's Revolutionary Government of Grenada
People's Republic of Hungary
Democratic Kampuchea
People's Republic of Kampuchea
Mongolian People's Republic
People's Republic of Mozambique
People's Republic of Poland
Socialist Republic of Romania
Somali Democratic Republic
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Democratic Republic of Vietnam
People's Democratic Republic of Yemen
Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

[edit]Constituent republics of the Soviet Union

Socialist Soviet Republic of Abkhazia
Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic
Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic
Bukharan People's Soviet Republic
Socialist Soviet Republic of Byelorussia
Far Eastern Republic
Finnish Democratic Republic
Soviet Socialist Republic of Georgia
Khorezm People's Soviet Republic
Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic
Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic
Georgian Communist Party
Communist Party of Armenia
Tuvan People's Republic
Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic
[edit]

List of socialist countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My question to you, is that if Socialism is so great, why is the list of current countries so small, and the list of former countries so large? Oh, and I looked, and no Sweeden on either list....Why?

 

[Boo Radley]

j, there are few pure anything anymore, which makes definitions a little harder. All systems have issues, which has led to a lot of hybrid forms. I only mention this because I think lists are less meaningful today because of this reality.

 

[sharon]

The premise for this thread is that Liberals and others acknowledge voting for Obama so that they could say they finally elected a Black man to the office.

They weren't as concerned about his qualifications as they should have been, or else he'd have lost.

No. The voters fell in love with the narrative of THE FIRST BLACK POTUS.

His skin color WAS the reason he was elected.

But they won't do that again.

Until they nominate another unqualified candidate who is White, I guess.

I don't think so... He just wasn't McCain/Palin.

 

[Patrickt]

Are you calling the OP a liberal? Them's fighting words!

Of course not. I was talking about the racists. You know, the Democrats. Conservatives have to avoid falling into the trap of bigotry. Just because President Obama is incredibly incompetent, hates America, and is out only for what he can get does not reflect on any black American.

 

[j-mac]

j, there are few pure anything anymore, which makes definitions a little harder. All systems have issues, which has led to a lot of hybrid forms. I only mention this because I think lists are less meaningful today because of this reality.

No Joe. While I'll agree that there are degrees of socialistic programs, Sweeden is not a socialist country...That is only the knee jerk answer to the question that most liberals go to. It is demonstrably false.

 

[Boo Radley]

No Joe. While I'll agree that there are degrees of socialistic programs, Sweeden is not a socialist country...That is only the knee jerk answer to the question that most liberals go to. It is demonstrably false.

Didn't say it was. I just find arguing over something that isn't pure loses a lot. It reminds me of the education debate where conservatives point to government controlled education (single payer if you will) as examples of what they want to do here, but don't see the similarities with single payer health care. They call one socialism (it's not) and the other the market place at work (which it isn't). The Stossel film was hilarious on this front.

But, I merely want to make that simple point. Instead of the entire government being the focus, perhaps we should narrow the concept down a bit.

 

[j-mac]

Didn't say it was. I just find arguing over something that isn't pure loses a lot. It reminds me of the education debate where conservatives point to government controlled education (single payer if you will) as examples of what they want to do here, but don't see the similarities with single payer health care. They call one socialism (it's not) and the other the market place at work (which it isn't). The Stossel film was hilarious on this front.

But, I merely want to make that simple point. Instead of the entire government being the focus, perhaps we should narrow the concept down a bit.

Well, let me ask, do you believe Sweeden is a socialist country?

 

[Boo Radley]

Well, let me ask, do you believe Sweeden is a socialist country?

It doesn't matter and really has little to do with any point. As I read it, you started off with a over generalization, and seek to combat the rebuttal by focusing on a small and largely irrelevant point. Sweden is not technically a socialist country (though both republicans and liberals have called it one). It is hybrid and uses some polices that if used here would be called socialist. And largely it is those polices that both point when entering into this discussion. Now, we can focus on the technical point, hooray, you win. Or we can focus on the basis of the argument.

 

[j-mac]

...Sweden is not technically a socialist country....

There, I guess this is as close to an answer as I can expect. So then I would pose to you that the actual overgeneralization you speak of is with the person who originally said it was. Thanks.

 

[Boo Radley]

There, I guess this is as close to an answer as I can expect. So then I would pose to you that the actual overgeneralization you speak of is with the person who originally said it was. Thanks.

J, the slowest of people know there was a clear answer. And the generalization was yours:

The problem with Socialism, and Socialists in general is that they constantly believe that it is a panacea of utopian society, when in reality it is little more than a jumping off point to dictatorship, and ultimate collapse of the countries that adopt it.

It has never worked long term in the history of the world, and never will for the simplest of reasons. People yearn to be free, and keep what they earn and not give it to someone who doesn't bother to contribute.

This shows a clear misunderstanding, and overgeneralizes to the extreme. One of the reasons we have no pure system today is because they all have problems. This includes what you think our system is.

 

[j-mac]

J, the slowest of people know there was a clear answer. And the generalization was yours:



This shows a clear misunderstanding, and overgeneralizes to the extreme. One of the reasons we have no pure system today is because they all have problems. This includes what you think our system is.

Do you think America was founded on Socialist principles?

 

[Boo Radley]

Do you think America was founded on Socialist principles?

Of course not, but what does that have to do with your overgeneralizing? And did we keep to our capitalistic roots? Even before the great depression, we were having trouble keeping to the completely free market. In fact, shortly after the Civil war we came closer than many realize to electing socialists to a large number of seats across the country. After the great depression, we continued to adjust, just as much of the world did. So the debate isn't further by slinging over generalizations, but by dealing with the realities honestly.

 

[madman]

I believe Obama will be the last Black POTUS we'll see in our lifetimes.

Why?

Because of the way he 'slipped' into office. Because of what he has done and not done in office. Because of how his campaign has behaved in this re-election bid. And because of how his administration and re-election campaign has divided this nation.

So, bottom line, enjoy it while you have it, Obama fans.

He's the last African American that White voters will take a chance on for a loooooong time.

Perhaps. With after all of the vitriol/hate coming from the white-wing.

 

[Paratrooper]

I believe Obama will be the last Black POTUS we'll see in our lifetimes.

Why?

Because of the way he 'slipped' into office. Because of what he has done and not done in office. Because of how his campaign has behaved in this re-election bid. And because of how his administration and re-election campaign has divided this nation.

So, bottom line, enjoy it while you have it, Obama fans.

He's the last African American that White voters will take a chance on for a loooooong time.

I am with others in that his skin color to me is irrelevant. It is his politics that I disagree with.

Herman Cain was actually my first choice when he entered the race.

 

[OnWisconsin]

No sir, Sweeden is NOT a socialist country. The Library of Congress defines Sweeden's form of government as such:


My question to you, is that if Socialism is so great, why is the list of current countries so small, and the list of former countries so large? Oh, and I looked, and no Sweeden on either list....Why?

Ok call it whatever the hell you want.. Sweden may not be a socialist country, but they sure as hell act like it.

Universal Socialized Health Care.
Universal Socialized Education system.
Universal Socialized Pension system.
No Private schools or hospitals.
25% of all industry is owned by the state.

 

[shiang]

I believe Obama will be the last Black POTUS we'll see in our lifetimes.

Why?

Because of the way he 'slipped' into office. Because of what he has done and not done in office. Because of how his campaign has behaved in this re-election bid. And because of how his administration and re-election campaign has divided this nation.

So, bottom line, enjoy it while you have it, Obama fans.

He's the last African American that White voters will take a chance on for a loooooong time.

What he's done:

lowered unemployment from over 10% to under 8%
raised employment
raised GDP by 10%
Cut effective deficit spending from 1.5 Trillion to 1.3 Trillion (adjusted for inflation)
All 3 stock index have doubled and recovered to pre-recession levels, so people can retire on their 401k, and boost investor confidence.
Reduced what we pay for interest on our debt
Killed Osama Bin Laden
Withdrew from Iraq
Passed good health care reform expanding coverage to cover college students, rules and regulations to prevent insurance corporate greed, pass legislation to favor prevention to cut cost.


What he's not done:

Cause a 2nd recession
Do nothing so we head into depression
Fight new wars while cutting taxes
Alienate our allies
Deregulate banks

What Romney's done:

In short he cuts costs by moving jobs, and cutting quality. In the short run stuffing the pockets Romney and Friends. In the long run destroy the companies and leave the problem to the next guy.


You sound racist not only not knowing the facts about Obama and Romney but also assuming all black people will make bad presidents.

 

[j-mac]

Of course not, but what does that have to do with your overgeneralizing?

Joe, we have a self described socialist on the site in which I responded to a post of his saying that most in this country were too dumb to know what socialism is. Did you read those posts? or just see my name and jump in?

And did we keep to our capitalistic roots?

the roots? yes. Do we have some aspects of socialist construct within our system? yes. But it is the drift we must watch.

Even before the great depression, we were having trouble keeping to the completely free market. In fact, shortly after the Civil war we came closer than many realize to electing socialists to a large number of seats across the country. After the great depression, we continued to adjust, just as much of the world did.

Do you think the world is 'adjusting' toward socialism, or free markets?

So the debate isn't further by slinging over generalizations, but by dealing with the realities honestly.

You should steer clear of honesty Joe, this thread is about the likelyhood of another black POTUS....I think at some time there will be, probably from the republican ticket to boot...What do ya think of that, eh?

 

[j-mac]

Ok call it whatever the hell you want.. Sweden may not be a socialist country, but they sure as hell act like it.

Universal Socialized Health Care.
Universal Socialized Education system.
Universal Socialized Pension system.
No Private schools or hospitals.
25% of all industry is owned by the state.

And there lies the rub.

On to the list of countries listed as socialist countries, do you see any there that have as broad a high standard of living as the US has across the board? I think not.

 

[Boo Radley]

Joe, we have a self described socialist on the site in which I responded to a post of his saying that most in this country were too dumb to know what socialism is. Did you read those posts? or just see my name and jump in?

Then addess him on that and not make an over generalization of your own

the roots? yes. Do we have some aspects of socialist construct within our system? yes. But it is the drift we must watch.

No, what we must watch is whether what is being done is effective or not. The hybrid approach has already been accepted.

Do you think the world is 'adjusting' toward socialism, or free markets?

Both. Back and forth, as there is a push and pull from different forces constantly.

You should steer clear of honesty Joe, this thread is about the likelyhood of another black POTUS....I think at some time there will be, probably from the republican ticket to boot...What do ya think of that, eh?

I hope so. I've seen republicans of all colors I would vote for, just not recently. I have more trouble with the voters in in the republican party more often than the leaders.

 

[j-mac]

Then addess him on that and not make an over generalization of your own..

Fair enough....Hey, is that a request, or an order?....heh, heh....Just kidding..

No, what we must watch is whether what is being done is effective or not. The hybrid approach has already been accepted.

Agreed, but effectiveness must be agreed to on both sides of the isle no?

Both. Back and forth, as there is a push and pull from different forces constantly.

eh..Ok, I can see that...Been going on since before I was born that's for sure.

I hope so. I've seen republicans of all colors I would vote for, just not recently. I have more trouble with the voters in in the republican party more often than the leaders.

And the inverse is also true for me, ol' friend.

 

[Boo Radley]

Agreed, but effectiveness must be agreed to on both sides of the isle no?

While I certainly prefer compromise, once any party merely resorts to saying no, the controlling party can move on within the rules.

And the inverse is also true for me, ol' friend.

Fair enough. I don't mind people objecting on policy or lean. But the birther and Muslim stuff seems to me to go beyond that. Even beyond stupid. I know you're not one of those, but I do want to make what I think is a distinction.

 

[zimmer]

While I certainly prefer compromise, once any party merely resorts to saying no, the controlling party can move on within the rules.



Fair enough. I don't mind people objecting on policy or lean. But the birther and Muslim stuff seems to me to go beyond that. Even beyond stupid. I know you're not one of those, but I do want to make what I think is a distinction.

I don't care about Obama's religion beyond the fact he should be honest about who he is. Obama wasn't honest (I'm not saying he's Muslim), and Wright showed a disgusting side of Obama. That he sought out, went to his church for 20-years and claimed he didn't hear the vitriol is pretty shady.

Wright is tight with Farrakhan, and Obama did say he was a Muslim... even though it was a slip. BUT... who in your life has ever said they were a Jew when they were a Catholic or Protestant, a Protestant say he was a Catholic or Jew, A Catholic say he was a Protestant or Jew... etc.? I've never come across it in my life... have you? I find it odd. And Obama didn't pick it up... Stephanopolus corrected him.

 

[johnny_rebson]

I don't mind people objecting on policy or lean. But the birther and Muslim stuff seems to me to go beyond that.

Obama was asked to release his birth certificate and he refused. Then a copy of his birth certificate appeared on the internet with "Kenya" written at the top. What were we supposed to think?