Is it worth it to go to college?

[1069]

OK, 10, time to crack out the thesaurus and look up AVERAGE...:2razz:
Clearly your dad is not average.

My husband's a drop-out, too. So am I. So are both my sons, each with an IQ over 140, one in the military now and one in community college.
So is nearly everyone I know, in fact.
I'm pretty sure I do not personally know anyone with an IQ below 100, although I know hundreds of people, and most of them are high school drop-outs.

 

[UtahBill]

I'm pretty sure I do not personally know anyone with an IQ below 100, although I know hundreds of people, and most of them are high school drop-outs.

I could introduce you to a few of my relatives....if the way they act is any indication, they would score about 80...

 

[MaggieD]

What do you want to do?

If you'd 'a gone to college, you'da known never to answer a question with a question.

Let's see....

• Car Sales? Nah. Too young. Nobody wants to talk to a snot-nosed kids about their $40K car.
• Real Estate Sales? Nah. Same reasons about a $300K house.
• Management Trainee? Nope again. Too young to manage people. Lack of maturity. Competition much too great from degreed candidates.
• Sales Trainee? Nope again. Too much competition. Too immature. Unless it's door-to-door sales or telephone soliciting, ain't gunna happen.
• Circus Clown? Absolutely not...unless ya' know somebody. Takes talent, poise, practice. Don't have any? Won't even be able to be a Circus Clown at the carnival.
• Security Guard? Not old enough, sorry. Can't even get a weapon's permit.
• Cop? Fireman? Surely not at 18 -- or any age w/o at least an Associate's.
• Paramedic? Uhhhh, no.
• Clergy? Hardly.
• I could go on...

These are hardly "engineers and doctors." Now, you name some jobs that will support a person that they can get at aged 18 with no education beyond high school.

Or others? How did you get started w/o a degree? How long did it take for you to "get comfortable?"

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

If you'd 'a gone to college, you'da known never to answer a question with a question.

My experience with college has been mixed though.
A lot of the classes have been weak, except for a few select teachers.

I had a history professor (who has a doctorate) that still taught the class the very questionable things in history, as fact.

 

[MaggieD]

My experience with college has been mixed though.
A lot of the classes have been weak, except for a few select teachers.

I had a history professor (who has a doctorate) that still taught the class the very questionable things in history, as fact.

Morning, Harry!! Yeah, it's the piece of paper, Harry. That's what it's about, really. It's not like (unless you're going into a very specialized field) you actually learn anything that'll help you make a living. It's about staying in college, getting that degree, maturing, and other personality traits that come along with having spent four years working on a degree. Communications skills, vocabulary, interpersonal relationships, etc.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Morning, Harry!! Yeah, it's the piece of paper, Harry. That's what it's about, really. It's not like (unless you're going into a very specialized field) you actually learn anything that'll help you make a living. It's about staying in college, getting that degree, maturing, and other personality traits that come along with having spent four years working on a degree. Communications skills, vocabulary, interpersonal relationships, etc.

Sorry but it drove me crazy.
I thought college would be better than high school in that aspect but it wasn't.

The specialty classes, for the most part, were great.
Learned a lot.

 

[reefedjib]

Sorry but it drove me crazy.
I thought college would be better than high school in that aspect but it wasn't.

The specialty classes, for the most part, were great.
Learned a lot.

Did you go to a public university, a community college or a private college or university?

 

[1069]

If you'd 'a gone to college, you'da known never to answer a question with a question.

Let's see....

• Car Sales? Nah. Too young. Nobody wants to talk to a snot-nosed kids about their $40K car.
• Real Estate Sales? Nah. Same reasons about a $300K house.
• Management Trainee? Nope again. Too young to manage people. Lack of maturity. Competition much too great from degreed candidates.
• Sales Trainee? Nope again. Too much competition. Too immature. Unless it's door-to-door sales or telephone soliciting, ain't gunna happen.
• Circus Clown? Absolutely not...unless ya' know somebody. Takes talent, poise, practice. Don't have any? Won't even be able to be a Circus Clown at the carnival.
• Security Guard? Not old enough, sorry. Can't even get a weapon's permit.
• Cop? Fireman? Surely not at 18 -- or any age w/o at least an Associate's.
• Paramedic? Uhhhh, no.
• Clergy? Hardly.
• I could go on...

These are hardly "engineers and doctors." Now, you name some jobs that will support a person that they can get at aged 18 with no education beyond high school.

Or others? How did you get started w/o a degree? How long did it take for you to "get comfortable?"

You can do anything you damn well please.
But not with that attitude of negativity.
I could give you ten good reasons why everything I've ever tried to accomplish in life should've failed... except it didn't. Half of it worked, even though by rights it shouldn't have.
You're the captain of your own destiny.
Quit thinking of reasons why you can't do things, and just do them. If you fail, oh well. Do something else.
Keep doing things until something works.
That's my advice.
You're young now; it doesn't get easier when you're older. Not in my experience.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Did you go to a public university, a community college or a private college or university?

Public 2 year college and a public technical college.

 

[reefedjib]

Public 2 year college and a public technical college.

The reason I asked is that there is a big difference between public schools and private colleges (and I think this applies to private universities). I went to a 4 year undergrad private college. I went to my Master's at a public university.

In college, we would have essay exams for english, history, psychology, physics, mathematics, astronomy, political science, ... The professors would take the time and grade writing skills and content. I went from a 380 Verbal SAT to a 590 Verbal GRE in 4 years because of this. They taught us to put thoughts together and make an argument.

In grad school, we were getting multiple choice tests. It was like high school in grad school, I can only imagine what undergrad was like.

Private schools are worth the extra money.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

The reason I asked is that there is a big difference between public schools and private colleges (and I think this applies to private universities). I went to a 4 year undergrad private college. I went to my Master's at a public university.

In college, we would have essay exams for english, history, psychology, physics, mathematics, astronomy, political science, ... The professors would take the time and grade writing skills and content. I went from a 380 Verbal SAT to a 590 Verbal GRE in 4 years because of this. They taught us to put thoughts together and make an argument.

In grad school, we were getting multiple choice tests. It was like high school in grad school, I can only imagine what undergrad was like.

Private schools are worth the extra money.

It seems that a lot of the time they were teaching to the LCD.
Many of the kids didn't know a lot of the common crap taught in freaking high school.

I hate waiting on other people to catch up.

 

[reefedjib]

It seems that a lot of the time they were teaching to the LCD.
Many of the kids didn't know a lot of the common crap taught in freaking high school.

I hate waiting on other people to catch up.

Yeah, private school wasn't taught to the LCD. If you were behind, you better start reading and teach yourself!

 

[MaggieD]

You can do anything you damn well please.
But not with that attitude of negativity.
I could give you ten good reasons why everything I've ever tried to accomplish in life should've failed... except it didn't. Half of it worked, even though by rights it shouldn't have.
You're the captain of your own destiny.
Quit thinking of reasons why you can't do things, and just do them. If you fail, oh well. Do something else.
Keep doing things until something works.
That's my advice.
You're young now; it doesn't get easier when you're older. Not in my experience.

Hi, 1069. Actually I didn't go to college. Started my own business at aged 19. Sold it 22 years later and retired. It's a different world today, I think. Is a college education the only path to success? Absolutely not!!!!! Is it a "leg up?" Absolutely!!!!!

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Yeah, private school wasn't taught to the LCD. If you were behind, you better start reading and teach yourself!

It would be unfair for me to say all my teachers did that but there were a couple that didn't.
Those I learned the most from.

 

[reefedjib]

It would be unfair for me to say all my teachers did that but there were a couple that didn't.
Those I learned the most from.

Likewise, there were lame professors in private school, as well. However, the ones I despised were those pushing their liberal worldview.

My senior year there were discussions among faculty to institute a board to review the content of various classes and have input on extending tenure. These were the "progressive" professors wanting to do this. My best professors were conservatives. Tough bastards.

 

[winston53660]

Likewise, there were lame professors in private school, as well. However, the ones I despised were those pushing their liberal worldview.

My senior year there were discussions among faculty to institute a board to review the content of various classes and have input on extending tenure. These were the "progressive" professors wanting to do this. My best professors were conservatives. Tough bastards.

I had one prof that was a total drunk at Pratt. It was an easy A but damn I did not learn a damn thing in that class. The guy was the world history prof and tenured. But then again world history was not that big of a deal at an art school.....Art history on the other hand whew that was a tough class.

 

[RightinNYC]

My husband's a drop-out, too. So am I. So are both my sons, each with an IQ over 140, one in the military now and one in community college.
So is nearly everyone I know, in fact.
I'm pretty sure I do not personally know anyone with an IQ below 100, although I know hundreds of people, and most of them are high school drop-outs.

You're saying that every single person you know personally is above average? That seems fairly implausible.

As a side note, how would you possibly know this? Do people just walk around talking about their IQs? I don't know my own IQ or that of anyone else and I'm sure that I don't really care.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Likewise, there were lame professors in private school, as well. However, the ones I despised were those pushing their liberal worldview.

My senior year there were discussions among faculty to institute a board to review the content of various classes and have input on extending tenure. These were the "progressive" professors wanting to do this. My best professors were conservatives. Tough bastards.

I had one the was overtly presenting his political beliefs.
That was my art history teacher.

My polysci professor was the former wife of a politician and a former politician herself.
I kinda knew she was a moderate republican but she didn't express her views as fact.
So it was cool.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I had one prof that was a total drunk at Pratt. It was an easy A but damn I did not learn a damn thing in that class. The guy was the world history prof and tenured. But then again world history was not that big of a deal at an art school.....Art history on the other hand whew that was a tough class.

I was horrible in art history.

 

[RightinNYC]

The reason I asked is that there is a big difference between public schools and private colleges (and I think this applies to private universities). I went to a 4 year undergrad private college. I went to my Master's at a public university.

In college, we would have essay exams for english, history, psychology, physics, mathematics, astronomy, political science, ... The professors would take the time and grade writing skills and content. I went from a 380 Verbal SAT to a 590 Verbal GRE in 4 years because of this. They taught us to put thoughts together and make an argument.

In grad school, we were getting multiple choice tests. It was like high school in grad school, I can only imagine what undergrad was like.

Private schools are worth the extra money.

I would just have to note again that each school is very different. There are dozens of public schools out there that are far better (and much cheaper) than literally hundreds of the private schools in this country. The quality and method of education at a respected flagship state university is going to be as good as that at all but the top few private colleges.

 

[1069]

You're saying that every single person you know personally is above average? That seems fairly implausible.

As a side note, how would you possibly know this? Do people just walk around talking about their IQs? I don't know my own IQ or that of anyone else and I'm sure that I don't really care.

IQ distribution in the US is as follows:

<75 IQ- 5%
75-90- 20%
90-110- 50%
110-125- 20%
>125- 5%

It is unlikely I'd have anything in common with individuals from the lowest 25 percentile, unless I was serving or helping them in some way, through my work.
It is well-established, anyway, that the average African-American IQ is +15 points lower than the average white IQ, so that a score of 100 is not actually a true median (the average white person scores higher than that, the average black person scores lower); also indicating that IQ tests in general are racially biased and inaccurate, and that IQ scores are meaningless when it comes to assessing intelligence.

 

[Compatibilist]

Many public secondary schools just aren't preparing kids for college. Most private schools do. Here's a piece of anecdotal evidence. My 15 year old struggled with freshman world history and made an F. He took the class at public school over the summer and made an A. Said class was easy and now he wants to transfer.

 

[reefedjib]

I would just have to note again that each school is very different. There are dozens of public schools out there that are far better (and much cheaper) than literally hundreds of the private schools in this country. The quality and method of education at a respected flagship state university is going to be as good as that at all but the top few private colleges.

I am not sure I would agree with that. There are clearly flagship state universities, but like any university they have class sizes in the hundreds for well worn classes. They cannot give essay exams and delve into sophisticated answers for challenging questions. Perhaps the distinction I am making is actually between a liberal-arts college and a university, public or private. Most liberal-arts colleges tend to be private. For undergrad, they give you the best bang for your buck.

 

[RightinNYC]

I am not sure I would agree with that. There are clearly flagship state universities, but like any university they have class sizes in the hundreds for well worn classes. They cannot give essay exams and delve into sophisticated answers for challenging questions.

I just don't think this is the case. You will get a much better quality education at a public school like UMich or UVA than you would at all but a few dozen private schools.

I also don't know what makes you think that the classes all have hundreds of kids - the bulk of non-first year classes at most schools (public or private) are seminars or small-sessions, all of which involve the same type of essays, etc. As to the first year classes, you're not learning Calc I any better in a 40 person class than you would in a 200 person class, particularly if the 200 person class comes with a weekly recitation with a TA.

Perhaps the distinction I am making is actually between a liberal-arts college and a university, public or private. Most liberal-arts colleges tend to be private. For undergrad, they give you the best bang for your buck.

I would strongly disagree with this, as a $50k education at UMich is vastly superior to a $200k education at 95% of private liberal arts colleges in terms of ROI.

 

[BDBoop]

IQ distribution in the US is as follows:

<75 IQ- 5%
75-90- 20%
90-110- 50%
110-125- 20%
>125- 5%

It is unlikely I'd have anything in common with individuals from the lowest 25 percentile, unless I was serving or helping them in some way, through my work.
It is well-established, anyway, that the average African-American IQ is +15 points lower than the average white IQ, so that a score of 100 is not actually a true median (the average white person scores higher than that, the average black person scores lower); also indicating that IQ tests in general are racially biased and inaccurate, and that IQ scores are meaningless when it comes to assessing intelligence.

Oh good. I'm in that 5%. This would explain why conversing with people can sometimes be so aggravating.