Is Fascism a right wing ideology? (1 Viewer)

[independentusa]

No.

Fascism is on the political left. It's just socialism with a nationalist bent. Mussolini, for example, was a life-long socialist and Italy under fascism was a progressive's wet dream.

Mussolini spent big on the public sector:




An expansive welfare state:




Along with state control over most of the economy:



Everything above is indisputably left wing, and anathema to people on the far right, like myself.

Here's your boy on the issue of racism:



On religion:




Fascism, being a branch of socialism, is a collectivist ideology:




While those of us on the right believe in individualism and capitalism.

So let's stop with the myth that fascism is right wing. Fascism is indisputably left wing.

fascism | Definition, Characteristics, & History | Britannica
It certainly does not sound like socialism

 

[danielpalos]

fascism | Definition, Characteristics, & History | Britannica
It certainly does not sound like socialism

still alive and well somewhere.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Imagine if that empire were still around and could give us a "morally hard time."

You find the culture of the Roman Empire 'moral?" Really? Please explain....

 

[danielpalos]

You find the culture of the Roman Empire 'moral?" Really? Please explain....

for purely political fun and practice?

they really could "harass us by taking the Holier than Thou high ground."

 

[Dittohead not!]

for purely political fun and practice?

they really could "harass us by taking the Holier than Thou high ground."

Anyone can claim the high ground, I suppose, even a society that had slaves and staged fights to the death for sport.

 

[danielpalos]

Anyone can claim the high ground, I suppose, even a society that had slaves and staged fights to the death for sport.

Holy Roman Empire - Wikipedia

Political pun, intended.

 

[nickchris17]

I'm sick of this reimagining of history of fascists as liberals by conservatives. Fascists are and always have been right wing. True, they weren't pure free-market capitalists, but they also weren't liberals. They were corporatists who believed in self-reliance and "productive" capitalism, while eschewing profits made off of banking speculation seen in western capitalist nations. They believed in an economy with a set number of state-sponsored corporations in a marriage of public and private enterprise. They were opposed to the notion of domestic class struggle championed by Marxists. They didn't believe in charity or social welfare as they were proponents of social Darwinism and saw these things as benefitting the feeble and unfit of society. Although the Nazis did reluctantly institute a form of social welfare, this was only made to benefit pure Aryans. Socially, they were traditionalists who were opposed to homosexuality and sodomy. They believed that a woman's proper role was that of housekeeper. I suppose that their belief in centralized power and opposition to individualism and materialism doesn't seem particularly right-wing, but right-wingers can be strong believers in a powerful government. Just look at which American political party conventionally supports having a bloated military budget, a drug war and nearly unlimited police power.

 

[HK.227]

I'm sick of this reimagining of history of fascists as liberals by conservatives. Fascists are and always have been right wing. True, they weren't pure free-market capitalists, but they also weren't liberals. They were corporatists who believed in self-reliance and "productive" capitalism, while eschewing profits made off of banking speculation seen in western capitalist nations. They believed in an economy with a set number of state-sponsored corporations in a marriage of public and private enterprise. They were opposed to the notion of domestic class struggle championed by Marxists. They didn't believe in charity or social welfare as they were proponents of social Darwinism and saw these things as benefitting the feeble and unfit of society. Although the Nazis did reluctantly institute a form of social welfare, this was only made to benefit pure Aryans. Socially, they were traditionalists who were opposed to homosexuality and sodomy. They believed that a woman's proper role was that of housekeeper. I suppose that their belief in centralized power and opposition to individualism and materialism doesn't seem particularly right-wing, but right-wingers can be strong believers in a powerful government. Just look at which American political party conventionally supports having a bloated military budget, a drug war and nearly unlimited police power.

Then, like right wingers who claim it it left wing, you are screwed.
By certain key measurement points Fascism is anti-left, but by others it is anti-right. And just like you, your opponents will never consent to fascism belonging to their side of the aisle because the key points they care about belong on your side.

This is merely another manifestation of the same Human nature that make both right- and leftwingers believe that freedom and civil rights are *their* core values, while totalitarianism and oppression belong to the other side. (Idiot right- and left wingers, that is.)

 

[JackA]

The method of government is independent of its desired/imposed economic system. One can have a monarchy (or democracy) and socialism, capitalism or a mix.

A simple truth that will never sink in.

 

[ttwtt78640]

A simple truth that will never sink in.

That is not to ignore the trend of socialist (or communist) economic schemes leading to (or following) authoritarian takeovers. Trying to decouple consumption ("access to" goods/services) from production (of those goods/services) often does not work (end well?). After all, someone has to provide (produce) all of that "free" stuff.

 

[jnug]

fascism | Definition, Characteristics, & History | Britannica
It certainly does not sound like socialism

No its not and this thread is so BORING. We beat this to death months ago. Geezus H Christ. The forum is just garbage lately.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I'm sick of this reimagining of history of fascists as liberals by conservatives. Fascists are and always have been right wing. True, they weren't pure free-market capitalists, but they also weren't liberals. They were corporatists who believed in self-reliance and "productive" capitalism, while eschewing profits made off of banking speculation seen in western capitalist nations. They believed in an economy with a set number of state-sponsored corporations in a marriage of public and private enterprise. They were opposed to the notion of domestic class struggle championed by Marxists. They didn't believe in charity or social welfare as they were proponents of social Darwinism and saw these things as benefitting the feeble and unfit of society. Although the Nazis did reluctantly institute a form of social welfare, this was only made to benefit pure Aryans. Socially, they were traditionalists who were opposed to homosexuality and sodomy. They believed that a woman's proper role was that of housekeeper. I suppose that their belief in centralized power and opposition to individualism and materialism doesn't seem particularly right-wing, but right-wingers can be strong believers in a powerful government. Just look at which American political party conventionally supports having a bloated military budget, a drug war and nearly unlimited police power.

Fascism is not on the left to right axis at all. It is on the authoritarian to libertarian axis. Surely, no one will dispute that it is on the extreme end of the authoritarian side.

 

[poweRob]

No.

Fascism is on the political left. It's just socialism with a nationalist bent. Mussolini, for example, was a life-long socialist and Italy under fascism was a progressive's wet dream.

Mussolini spent big on the public sector:




An expansive welfare state:




Along with state control over most of the economy:



Everything above is indisputably left wing, and anathema to people on the far right, like myself.

Here's your boy on the issue of racism:



On religion:




Fascism, being a branch of socialism, is a collectivist ideology:




While those of us on the right believe in individualism and capitalism.

So let's stop with the myth that fascism is right wing. Fascism is indisputably left wing.

Here we go yet again with right wing fascists trying to rewrite history just so people might like them again.

 

[swing_voter]

Nazism, or national socialism, is socialism.

The thing about national socialism like the Nazis practiced, is that you only get the benefits of socialism if you're an Aryan. If you're not an Aryan, you're a sub human.

Racism is built into the system.

 

[aociswundumho]

Here we go yet again with right wing fascists trying to rewrite history just so people might like them again.

No, leftist history professors rewrote history.

And notice you did not dispute any of the evidence presented.

 

[poweRob]

No, leftist history professors rewrote history.

And notice you did not dispute any of the evidence presented.

Its a dead horse topic thats been relitigated a zillion times with fascist right wingers always trotting it out again and again and again. You are wrong every time you do it. Should make it its own room in this site like the covid one because you right wingers will never let go the fact that fascism is in your camp.

 

[aociswundumho]

Nazism, or national socialism, is socialism.

The thing about national socialism like the Nazis practiced, is that you only get the benefits of socialism if you're an Aryan. If you're not an Aryan, you're a sub human.

Racism is built into the system.

No different than Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. Pot Pot was just as much a racist as Hitler, and he implemented the purest form of Marxism ever attempted:

The Khmer Rouge regime murdered hundreds of thousands of their perceived political opponents, and its racist emphasis on national purity included several genocides of Cambodian minorities.

Khmer Rouge - Wikipedia

Same butcher, different apron. Racism and nationalism are both forms of collectivism.

 

[TomFitz]

Too many people are self isolating, if a nonsense thread like this one (complete with obviously false and self serving premise) get traction!

 

[danielpalos]

Nazism, or national socialism, is socialism.

The thing about national socialism like the Nazis practiced, is that you only get the benefits of socialism if you're an Aryan. If you're not an Aryan, you're a sub human.

Racism is built into the system.

The right wing is disingenuous and can't seem to win their wars. The concept of natural rights precludes the whole and entire concept of racism. Right wingers only allege to believe in natural rights in abortion threads, where they get to "tell women what to do".

 

[aociswundumho]

Its a dead horse topic thats been relitigated a zillion times with fascist right wingers always trotting it out again and again and again. You are wrong every time you do it.

Well, stamping your feet and plugging your ears isn't going to change the mountain of evidence showing that we are correct. You can't win an argument that way, you can only lose.

Should make it its own room in this site like the covid one because you right wingers will never let go the fact that fascism is in your camp.

That's why people on the far right like Milton Friedman, William F Buckley, Walter Williams, etc, all hold fascist views. Oh, wait, they don't, they hold the exact opposite.

And if we look at the policies of fascism, we see much of it matches right up with progressivism. Read it and weep:

When New York city politician Grover Aloysius Whalen asked Mussolini about the meaning behind Italian fascism in 1939, the reply was: "It is like your New Deal!".

Economy of Italy under fascism - Wikipedia

 

[Questerr]

Fascism is a reasonable response to the specter of communist tyranny. If democracy is to fall, it is better for it to fall to those who do not hate the people.

Because, to you, Jews aren’t people?

 

[AmNat]

Because, to you, Jews aren’t people?

Your powers of interpretative reading are really quite remarkable.

 

[Questerr]

Your powers of interpretative reading are really quite remarkable.

Your powers of white supremacist delusion are quite remarkable if you think fascists didn’t hate the people. Let me guess, you think the Gestapo and OVRA existed for the purposes of love? Hello? Mister Orwell is that you?