Is economy turning the corner or is that just in some sections?

[presluc]

Some say the economy is turning the corner, but who benifits from this turn?
Evedintly the government don't, the majority of the people don't as Gap closes 21% of it's stores.
Of course there is the trillions of dollars America is in debt, plus the financial woes of more than one of the 50 states in America.
However the boys on Wall street say everythings ok?
Are the majority of Americans to praise privation , while America the government spirals deeper in debt?
A lot of protestors think not, I don't think so either.

The American people as a majority have never been shy about defending America from foriegn powers during the time of war, some were drafted some volenteered to fight against foriegn powers that would overthrow our nation.
I find it hard to believe that an average man would give up his life for his country, while the rich won't even take a cut in the tax cuts they get nor are the willing to sacrifise the huge profits they get from hiring cheap foriegn labor compared to American labor.

The following is a picture of the economy today.
If these rich fat cats were doing something to help America they would be buying bonds instead they get a check from the government for paying taxes, plus research grants ect.


Treasury prices fell Friday after investors abandoned the safety of government bonds on signs of strength in the U.S. economy.
Retail sales grew 1.1 percent in September, the most in seven months. The report is viewed as a key barometer of consumer spending, an important driver of the U.S. economy. Corporate profits were also strong. Google Inc. and Mattel Inc. both reported higher income for the third quarter.

In the 60's a band called CCR wrote a song with lirics that said " I AIN'T THE FORTUNATE ONE".

There are many that didn't come back from the wars abroad as well as Iraq and Afganistan those who are fortunate enough to make it back today found labor at a very slow pace and jobs at a good wage hard to find.
Did these veterns fight for all America or just a Wall street and the rich?

However the rich corporations might heed from the Treasury of today for if investors abandoned the safety of Government bonds , when retail sales drop they can just as easily abandon the stocks of Wall street and corporations.
eace
Ladies and Gentlemen I await your veiws and comments on this subject

 

[A.Pearce]

I think people leaving government bonds has to do with Slovakia finally signing the bailout fund for the E.U. That seems to have been the primary concern that has been pumping up treasury bonds for the past month or so, so this shouldn't be a surprise.

As for the "turnaround" it happened back in 2009 (sort of) but it has been cut short by a variety of factors, including but not limited to: The European banking crisis, the poor housing sector, and tight credit. Also, there doesn't seem to have been any jobs created to speak of by what little growth in gdp we've had.
http://www.finfacts.ie/artman/uploads/3/US-gdp-2010-Aug272010.jpg

 

[Slartibartfast]

I got four cold calls from head hunters over the last couple of weeks for perm full time jobs. Its a personal best. I don't know if this experience is shared with anyone else though.

 

[Buddha C]

For a while I looked around and heard all the bad 'indicators' of things getting worse, but in my town alone since late 2008 three brand spanking new complexes have been built. Along with a LOT of people who had the skills and such that couldn't find jobs that have recently (in the past year) and competition where I worked (a pizza place) for labour that was... well, harsh.

Besides, 1 percent of the GDP expected growth (of 1.3) was from investment. Not from banks, a lot of it was from corporations and banks who are connected to bank-reliant businesses (like housing) but again these were usually larger and more time tested companies. I honestly think the only thing holding banks from loaning (and in my opinion stirring the economy) to small businesses (high-risk) and qualified would be home buyers is that they don't have to caught with their pants down, i.e. not have enough cash reserves when the going gets tough. The major impediment to that, imo, is the Euro crisis which would have a far reaching affect on U.S. banking, and their fear of that occurrence. Once it passes, or gets done with, they'd be actually willing to loan to qualified home buyers and small businesses.

Consumer demand? Eh, people have an insatiable thirst for more resources. That's the number one rule, if small businesses keep creating jobs (DEATH TO RETAIL CORPORATIONS) than everything is good :3, but what do I know

 

[KevinKohler]

It's not as simple as "has the economy turned around". It has in some states, and it has not in others. In some states, it's getting worse. Some states feel these things last, because of the nature of their job market.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The economy has not turned around, it still has the debt overhang caused by the housing bubble, and now has large amounts of government debt added to the mix. Certain areas are doing well, specifically those in high tech, raw material and agriculture, but unemployement is still high, overall retail sales are lower then 2009, housing and auto sales are still low.

Now we have to deal with the debt problems of Europe, the high potential of a debt crisis in China ( the Chinese however have alot of savings to fix thier problems, and the high likelyhood of debt problems in Japan as well (220% government debt to GDP is not good) again the Japanese have the savings to fix their problem.

This is going to be a multiyear problem before things get adjusted. When the adjustments are done things will not be the same. The standard of living in many western countries will drop drastically while those of asia excluding Japan will rise. The highly skilled South Korean worker building, designing etc products that are world rivals will see wages and income rival that of the same quality US or European workers. The low skilled workers of Europe or America will see their standard of living drop to much lower levels

 

[Buddha C]

The economy has not turned around, it still has the debt overhang caused by the housing bubble, and now has large amounts of government debt added to the mix. Certain areas are doing well, specifically those in high tech, raw material and agriculture, but unemployement is still high, overall retail sales are lower then 2009, housing and auto sales are still low.

Now we have to deal with the debt problems of Europe, the high potential of a debt crisis in China ( the Chinese however have alot of savings to fix thier problems, and the high likelyhood of debt problems in Japan as well (220% government debt to GDP is not good) again the Japanese have the savings to fix their problem.

This is going to be a multiyear problem before things get adjusted. When the adjustments are done things will not be the same. The standard of living in many western countries will drop drastically while those of asia excluding Japan will rise. The highly skilled South Korean worker building, designing etc products that are world rivals will see wages and income rival that of the same quality US or European workers. The low skilled workers of Europe or America will see their standard of living drop to much lower levels

From what I heard appreciation and recent spending has decreased the chinese treasury by 1/3 (I think I read 2/3rs, but I'll be conservative since I don't feel like looking up the article lol). Along with the low skilled workers, from what I've read a lot of the needed jobs are technical, like electricians (I don't know the exact requirements, but I know a few and some of them are little dull) and such. Adding to that, again where I live, a lot of people use the Pell Grant(s?) to get into 2 year schools and open up a dearth of new job opportunities. Assuming they choose the correct position, ofc.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

My area of employment is runs pretty much lock step with the ebb and flow of the economy.
Last year we had about 6-8 weeks of temporary layoffs, because of the lack of order demand, this year none (except this coming week for a different reason).

Things are getting better slowly.

 

[Kushinator]

Some say the economy is turning the corner, but who benifits from this turn?
Evedintly the government don't, the majority of the people don't as Gap closes 21% of it's stores.
Of course there is the trillions of dollars America is in debt, plus the financial woes of more than one of the 50 states in America.
However the boys on Wall street say everythings ok?
Are the majority of Americans to praise privation , while America the government spirals deeper in debt?
A lot of protestors think not, I don't think so either.

The American people as a majority have never been shy about defending America from foriegn powers during the time of war, some were drafted some volenteered to fight against foriegn powers that would overthrow our nation.
I find it hard to believe that an average man would give up his life for his country, while the rich won't even take a cut in the tax cuts they get nor are the willing to sacrifise the huge profits they get from hiring cheap foriegn labor compared to American labor.

The following is a picture of the economy today.
If these rich fat cats were doing something to help America they would be buying bonds instead they get a check from the government for paying taxes, plus research grants ect.


Treasury prices fell Friday after investors abandoned the safety of government bonds on signs of strength in the U.S. economy.
Retail sales grew 1.1 percent in September, the most in seven months. The report is viewed as a key barometer of consumer spending, an important driver of the U.S. economy. Corporate profits were also strong. Google Inc. and Mattel Inc. both reported higher income for the third quarter.

In the 60's a band called CCR wrote a song with lirics that said " I AIN'T THE FORTUNATE ONE".

There are many that didn't come back from the wars abroad as well as Iraq and Afganistan those who are fortunate enough to make it back today found labor at a very slow pace and jobs at a good wage hard to find.
Did these veterns fight for all America or just a Wall street and the rich?

However the rich corporations might heed from the Treasury of today for if investors abandoned the safety of Government bonds , when retail sales drop they can just as easily abandon the stocks of Wall street and corporations.
eace
Ladies and Gentlemen I await your veiws and comments on this subject

Was it too hard to at least source the information that was copy/pasted?

 

[Mach]

The standard of living in many western countries will drop drastically while those of asia excluding Japan will rise.

Spot on LT.

Highlighting this blurb for the liberal posters. Let that sink in. Aren't many of you guys (not LT) clamouring for increased living standards for poor/working class? Lamenting the disparity in the U.S.? If LT and those with a similar position are correct, guess what, you're in for a rude awakening.

 

[Kushinator]

Spot on LT.

Highlighting this blurb for the liberal posters. Let that sink in. Aren't many of you guys (not LT) clamouring for increased living standards for poor/working class? Lamenting the disparity in the U.S.? If LT and those with a similar position are correct, guess what, you're in for a rude awakening.

While i agree with LT for the most part, i am not a believer of the whole "our standard of living will diminish" rhetoric.

It has been proven (long ago) that a peoples standard of living is heavily linked to the rate of technological advancement. Low savings rates of U.S. citizens has been supplemented by trillions upon trillions of dollars in foreign domestic investment.

 

[Mach]

While i agree with LT for the most part, i am not a believer of the whole "our standard of living will diminish" rhetoric.
It has been proven (long ago) that a peoples standard of living is heavily linked to the rate of technological advancement. Low savings rates of U.S. citizens has been supplemented by trillions upon trillions of dollars in foreign domestic investment.

Well, I'm not really either, only in response to liberal rhetoric.
I measured by cost of living each year and when I spent $50K/year, my quality of life was basically no different than on $75K/year.
I ate out less (but ate healthier), I got a new expensive car (That eats gas and still only gets me from point A to B at the speed limit), and spent a little more on things to clutter up the house.
I mean, AC, internet, food, shelter, low crime, transportation, women, this is up in the 90% of life is good range. The rest is just noise (to a degree).

Liberal rhetoric however on the forums, and in the public, laments the diminishing middle class, the hammering real wages have taken, the flat standard of living, etc. THESE arguments are in for the rude awakening. Because if we do drop from say $75K to $50K salary range, that's an ENORMOUS loss compared to what they are already complaining about...flat wages right? They are going to see entitlements, pensions, and real wages, diminish far more than they already complain about.

Yet, as you're pointing out, realistically once it's absorbed, it's not going to be a big deal, especially in the U.S. So I make my meals again and get a 3 year old Toyota that's perfectly fine...big whoop. People may however have to work longer to retire...that one may be felt, but that's way down the line and who knows what else will change in the mean-time.

 

[presluc]

I think people leaving government bonds has to do with Slovakia finally signing the bailout fund for the E.U. That seems to have been the primary concern that has been pumping up treasury bonds for the past month or so, so this shouldn't be a surprise.

As for the "turnaround" it happened back in 2009 (sort of) but it has been cut short by a variety of factors, including but not limited to: The European banking crisis, the poor housing sector, and tight credit. Also, there doesn't seem to have been any jobs created to speak of by what little growth in gdp we've had.
http://www.finfacts.ie/artman/uploads/3/US-gdp-2010-Aug272010.jpg

So if more Americans had jobs buying more and paying more tax revenue are you saying the economy would remain the same??
As far as jobs created by gdp, check out a thread called cart before the horse or the horse before the cart.

In short, did little growth in GDP cause less jobs or did less jobs cause little growth in GDP?

In my humble opinion if you have more jobs you have more money circulation, more tax revenue, aka Capital that creates GDP.eace

 

[presluc]

I got four cold calls from head hunters over the last couple of weeks for perm full time jobs. Its a personal best. I don't know if this experience is shared with anyone else though.

Just a guess here but I think that maybe just maybe not every unemployed worker has the skills you have.

I haven't seen any drastic drop in the unemployment so maybe these head hunters are looking for only a certain skill?

Last I heard unskilled labor wasn't getting any calls from head hunters, and like it or not unskilled labor is the majority of America..

 

[presluc]

For a while I looked around and heard all the bad 'indicators' of things getting worse, but in my town alone since late 2008 three brand spanking new complexes have been built. Along with a LOT of people who had the skills and such that couldn't find jobs that have recently (in the past year) and competition where I worked (a pizza place) for labour that was... well, harsh.

Besides, 1 percent of the GDP expected growth (of 1.3) was from investment. Not from banks, a lot of it was from corporations and banks who are connected to bank-reliant businesses (like housing) but again these were usually larger and more time tested companies. I honestly think the only thing holding banks from loaning (and in my opinion stirring the economy) to small businesses (high-risk) and qualified would be home buyers is that they don't have to caught with their pants down, i.e. not have enough cash reserves when the going gets tough. The major impediment to that, imo, is the Euro crisis which would have a far reaching affect on U.S. banking, and their fear of that occurrence. Once it passes, or gets done with, they'd be actually willing to loan to qualified home buyers and small businesses.

Consumer demand? Eh, people have an insatiable thirst for more resources. That's the number one rule, if small businesses keep creating jobs (DEATH TO RETAIL CORPORATIONS) than everything is good :3, but what do I know

Retail corporations also have to deal with foriegn products ,and judgeing by the exports vs the imports, they ain't doing that well.

 

[presluc]

It's not as simple as "has the economy turned around". It has in some states, and it has not in others. In some states, it's getting worse. Some states feel these things last, because of the nature of their job market.

Jobs are the key to turning the economy around.
Budget cuts ..l been tried
Less regulations ... that caused the bailouts of 2008
Salary cuts for teachers.. been there done that
Education cuts.. tried
Nasa cuts been there done that
LESS OUTSOURCEING AND MORE JOBS FOR AMERICANS HAS NOT BEEN TRIEDeace

 

[presluc]

The economy has not turned around, it still has the debt overhang caused by the housing bubble, and now has large amounts of government debt added to the mix. Certain areas are doing well, specifically those in high tech, raw material and agriculture, but unemployement is still high, overall retail sales are lower then 2009, housing and auto sales are still low.

Now we have to deal with the debt problems of Europe, the high potential of a debt crisis in China ( the Chinese however have alot of savings to fix thier problems, and the high likelyhood of debt problems in Japan as well (220% government debt to GDP is not good) again the Japanese have the savings to fix their problem.

This is going to be a multiyear problem before things get adjusted. When the adjustments are done things will not be the same. The standard of living in many western countries will drop drastically while those of asia excluding Japan will rise. The highly skilled South Korean worker building, designing etc products that are world rivals will see wages and income rival that of the same quality US or European workers. The low skilled workers of Europe or America will see their standard of living drop to much lower levels

If it comes to that a lot of cheap foriegn labor might not be so cheap.

 

[presluc]

Was it too hard to at least source the information that was copy/pasted?

Is it too hard for you to look at a Yahoo home page?

 

[coolwalker]

The corner we are turning could be a dead end street if we don't allow business to get back to business and stop the government from taking-taking-taking. It's like a giant Pac-Man.

 

[presluc]

Spot on LT.

Highlighting this blurb for the liberal posters. Let that sink in. Aren't many of you guys (not LT) clamouring for increased living standards for poor/working class? Lamenting the disparity in the U.S.? If LT and those with a similar position are correct, guess what, you're in for a rude awakening.

I'm clamoring for jobs for the American people.

Less jobs means less consumers and less tax revenue, that means less money circulation , less retail sales the government, "a Capitalistic government by the way" runs on taxes.
The rude awakening could come in a differant form like higher taxes, or less investors.eace

 

[presluc]

While i agree with LT for the most part, i am not a believer of the whole "our standard of living will diminish" rhetoric.

It has been proven (long ago) that a peoples standard of living is heavily linked to the rate of technological advancement. Low savings rates of U.S. citizens has been supplemented by trillions upon trillions of dollars in foreign domestic investment.

"trillions of trillions of dollars in foriegn domestic investment"
Yeah especially labor.

 

[presluc]

Well, I'm not really either, only in response to liberal rhetoric.
I measured by cost of living each year and when I spent $50K/year, my quality of life was basically no different than on $75K/year.
I ate out less (but ate healthier), I got a new expensive car (That eats gas and still only gets me from point A to B at the speed limit), and spent a little more on things to clutter up the house.
I mean, AC, internet, food, shelter, low crime, transportation, women, this is up in the 90% of life is good range. The rest is just noise (to a degree).

Liberal rhetoric however on the forums, and in the public, laments the diminishing middle class, the hammering real wages have taken, the flat standard of living, etc. THESE arguments are in for the rude awakening. Because if we do drop from say $75K to $50K salary range, that's an ENORMOUS loss compared to what they are already complaining about...flat wages right? They are going to see entitlements, pensions, and real wages, diminish far more than they already complain about.

Yet, as you're pointing out, realistically once it's absorbed, it's not going to be a big deal, especially in the U.S. So I make my meals again and get a 3 year old Toyota that's perfectly fine...big whoop. People may however have to work longer to retire...that one may be felt, but that's way down the line and who knows what else will change in the mean-time.

Uhh that standard of living in many places minus AC, internet, transpotation would be public or walking, women only if they can help in many places two jobs enough to pay for one apartment plus food utilities.
Oh and the 3 year toyota many out here would take a 15 yr Toyota if it ran.

 

[Mach]

Uhh that standard of living in many places minus AC, internet, transpotation would be public or walking, women only if they can help in many places two jobs enough to pay for one apartment plus food utilities. Oh and the 3 year toyota many out here would take a 15 yr Toyota if it ran.

So move to where cost of living is not so absurd.
Do I get a consulting fee for that?

 

[presluc]

The corner we are turning could be a dead end street if we don't allow business to get back to business and stop the government from taking-taking-taking. It's like a giant Pac-Man.

Lets allow business to get back to busines, funny everybody keeps saying that.
Another one is tell government to leave business alone

My question is why can't business leave the government alone first it was a smaller government but a smaller government also has a smaller treasury, but who came crying to the government for bailout money in 2008.
Who went whining to the government about a tax cut for paying taxes.
Both times business.
When times are good for business they seem to critisize government spending, but back to the wall when the black ink turns red well it's differant then, the government spending a few million dollars on business is considered nothing at all, getting it back that's a problem.
So I guess I agree with you let business go it's own way no freebies from government no tax cuts for rich ceos, no grants for "research"?
In turn maybe the government should run America for the people of America ALL THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA.

 

[Kushinator]

Is it too hard for you to look at a Yahoo home page?

I am just considering forum rules which state:

Copyrighted Material - All material posted from copyrighted material MUST contain a link to the original work.
Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 107 US CODE: Title 17,107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

eace