Is Catholicism part of/is Christianity?

[Rumpel]

And FYI, no one can be born again and still marry. "Those who marry and are given in marriage are not worthy of that world and the resurrection of the dead" and "When they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage." So being born again or water and the Spirit means not marrying.

Interesting!
Do those "porn-again" fanatical fundamentalists in the Bible Belt know?

 

[Fishking]

Intermediaries? No. It’s more or less divine networking. They’re not intermediaries in the sense of being mandatory middlemen between man and god nor is their veneration even necessary. But everybody wants friends in high places and if souls presumed to be in heaven can be convinced to advocate on your behalf then huzzah.

Yeah...that's an intermediary. That's the role they play in that dynamic.

noun

1. a person who acts as a link between people in order to try to bring about an agreement or reconciliation; a mediator.
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[Fishking]

It is historical fact. You can pick the doctrine and there’s first and second century evidence for it

Odd no one told that to Saint Paul

No, it’s not. The Bible was created by the church, not the other way around.

No, they didn’t. The Bible was written in Greek and Latin during the times those were common languages and that practice remained because the people who were educated and literate read those languages. There is in fact church approved Bible translations in many languages before Luther. This is a founding myth of Protestants, kind of like the clean Wehrmacht myth is essential to founding the modern German state.

No, again in the 16th century most educated people read in Latin or Greek. The masses were largely illiterate and could not have read the Bible in any language. Also church Latin was not a “dead language” it was the official vernacular language in Rome and was widely taught across the former western empire

You are unaware of history and the facts surrounding it. The RCC killed other Christians trying to operate outside of their authority and those who tried to give the people the Bible in their own languages. They literally tried to keep it in Latin where they would be able to control the message. The RCC/Universal Church is a construct of Rome, not the original church.

 

[Crunchtime]

The following article and testimony is one reason why adhering to the scriptures is so vital. The Catholic Church left the scriptures long ago, and it’s why the Reformation was necessary. When men lead disaster is inevitable

Pope Francis warns German bishops: Changing teachings is 'not lawful,' causes churches to 'rot and die'

Pope Francis warned the German Conference of Bishops in a Thursday statement that alterations to theology or church governance is 'unlawful' and could hurt the church.

www.foxnews.com

 

[JH Oldoc]

Oh this again.........
.. Catholicism is Frankensteinianism (as is protestantism)

Does "Thou shall not commit adultery" mean nothing?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You are unaware of history and the facts surrounding it. The RCC killed other Christians trying to operate outside of their authority

Several Protestant churches did as well, In numerous countries including Britain and Sweden after the so called “reformation” Catholics faced loss of citizenship or death. Persecution does not mean one particular sect is right or wrong. As another element, the Catholic Church (not the “RCC” Roman Catholic is an invention of the English language, there organizationally no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church. It’s the Catholic Church, there is a Latin Rite, which is what the majority of churches are, but there’s also a Byzantine Rite, a Chaldean rite (Iraq), an Armenian rite, etc etc there is no “Roman Catholic Church”) the Catholic Church almost never killed anyone, in all Catholic countries outside of the city of Rome itself the authority for capital punishment was vested with secular rulers who themselves passed laws against heresy, because in that time it was recognized secular authorities had some responsibilities to the souls of their subjects and that wierd religious sects undermined society. The church couldn’t order anyone killed in most of Europe, if Protestants such as Huguenots were prosecuted it was by the secular authority such as the French Crown and not the church.

and those who tried to give the people the Bible in their own languages.

No, again this is ahistorical. There was no law against publishing the Bible in any language, then, as is now. If you want to publish a Bible suitable for use in study or liturgy within the Catholic Church you must get an imprimatur from the bishop to which you’re subject. In fact numerous translations of the Bible had before Luther did it. This is to protect people reading the Bible from grave error that may be inserted via translation errors whether done accidentally or on purpose.

They literally tried to keep it in Latin where they would be able to control the message.

Wrong. Sermons and biblical readings were done in Vernacular. The liturgy was done in Latin, or in other lands in the east, could have been done in Greek, or Syriac, or Armenian, or Slavonic, etc

The RCC/Universal Church is a construct of Rome, not the original church.

No, it was founded by Christ himself through Peter.

 

[reinaert]

Catholics are the only true Christians. All of protest denominations are wrong, each for their own reasons.

It started with King Henry VIII. And each new denomination after that, drifted further and further away from Christianity.

This kind of ignores the 400 years before Catholicism, then/also the Montanists, Valentinians, Donatists, Arians, Nestorians, Pelagians, Ebionites...the Bogomils, Cathars, Hussites, Beguines, the Brethren of the Free Spirit...and then, long before Fat Henry, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Servetus, Tyndale, the Hussites...etc.

Not even getting to the Church of the East and the Orthodoxies.

 

[reinaert]

No sale. I don't "assume" anything. With all of its problems Catholicism is the closest thing to the faith once received. Period.

That would be the Ebionites, the Nestorians, the Miaphysites, the pre-Uniate Armenian Church, and the Church in the East.

Catholics are far, far removed from the Levantine and Didache gatherings.

 

[Manc Skipper]

The Roman Catholic Church IS the Christian church which evolved and dominated in the West, until Martin Luther and his gloomy band usurped their position.

 

[it's just me]

How many minutes

That would be the Ebionites, the Nestorians, the Miaphysites, the pre-Uniate Armenian Church, and the Church in the East.

Catholics are far, far removed from the Levantine and Didache gatherings.

Right, the Nestorians, practically heretics. You don't know who the Catholics are. Do us both a favor and quit pulling things out of your backside.

 

[reinaert]

How many minutes


You don't know who the Catholics are.

Of course I do. Jesuit/Xaverian educated, and after my mother converted, grew up around Carmelite orders.

 

[JH Oldoc]

The Roman Catholic Church IS the Christian church which evolved and dominated in the West, until Martin Luther and his gloomy band usurped their position.

..and therefore it IS Christianity, rather than a perversion that came through time.

When you were a kid in school,
.ever play telephone?
Wasn't the original message always garbled?

 

[JH Oldoc]

How many minutes


You don't know who the Catholics are.

I do. I grew up with them.
Quite a perverse lot.

 

[reinaert]

I do. I grew up with them.
A perverse lot.

I knew a cpl of good Jesuits, a few noble diocesan priests, and a couple of decent nuns. I have good memories of the Carmelites and Franciscans, and a few Benedictines under Rule.

But, I also remember one of Law's cover-up Bishops ordaining a since convicted serial child molestor - who is still in the cassock and still teaching at RCC schools.

 

[Nickyjo]

Well, I think you’re thinking of a different Thing, because that has nothing to do with Christianity at all.

Not really. The Sermon on the Mount could have been written in the Haight-Ashbury in the mid-1960s.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I do. I grew up with them.
Quite a perverse lot.

Some of my best friends.... I used to envy my pal who got his sin slate wiped clean every week. He envied my not having a sin slate at all!

 

[Nickyjo]

No, he is fully correct. People infallibility is dogma. The Catholic who does not believe in it is endangering their soul

Papal infallibility is pretty much confined to very rare instances of the Pope’s pronouncements. It comes, I believe, from Jesus’s words about the “keys to the kingdom… what ever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven…”

 

[it's just me]

Of course I do. Jesuit/Xaverian educated, and after my mother converted, grew up around Carmelite orders.

Telling this crowd what they want to hear doesn't help your credibility.

 

[JH Oldoc]

I knew a cpl of good Jesuits, a few noble diocesan priests, and a couple of decent nuns. I have good memories of the Carmelites and Franciscans, and a few Benedictines under Rule.

But, I also remember one of Law's cover-up Bishops ordaining a since convicted serial child molestor - who is still in the cassock and still teaching at RCC schools.

I heard all sort of rumor when in grade school.
Thank god I chose never to be an alter boy, is all I have to say on that.
..but I was referring to their perverse literalization of scripture/the life of Jesus and the teachings of the Christ.

 

[reinaert]

Telling this crowd what they want to hear doesn't help your credibility.

Care to explain that further?

 

[Nickyjo]

The Methodist Church recognizes the good deeds of the people as reflecting the strength of their faith, focuses on 'deeds not creeds' and it's not "salvation by faith alone" or "salvation by grace" alone. The Presbyterian Church believes in justification only by grace and says that the 'predestined elect' is the only thing that will lead to heaven. In other words, Presbyterians say that there is nothing you can do, whether good deeds or even pure faith, which will save you - only the Elect who are chosen by God for reasons known only to Him. Presbyterians are Calvinist, which is different than a lot of Christian denominations. Methodism, on the other hand, holds that individuals choose salvation out of free will, and not just the grace of god. In other words, Methodists think we have to pursue holiness and salvation, Presbyterians think that we are predestined to salvation or not regardless of what we think or do.

You'll find that there are always important doctrinal reasons for differences in denominations. They are significant. If they weren't, denominations would not have broken off.

Correct as far as I know. My belief is that Luther overreacted to the excesses of the Catholic Church of his time, not hard to do. He rejected what Catholics believe, that Faith without works is dead.” To me as a lifelong Catholic, the primacy of faith seems absurd, as if God is some egomaniac who doesn’t care how you live your life so long as you believe. That’s obviously an exaggeration of some non-Catholics’ beliefs. Catholics square the circle of how unbelievers can be saved through the notion of “baptism of desire,” that righteous people who never heard of Christ or who even reject him can be saved.

 

[it's just me]

Care to explain that further?

Yeah. The Ebionites were not Catholic, they didn't believe Jesus was Divine from birth. Depending on who you ask, the Writings of the Didache do not predate the Athanasian creed. Some say they were written before the Creeds, some say not. The Nestorians were not Catholic, I'm not even sure they were Christian. I'm sure the Arians werent. And the Jesuits have always been shady. Pope Clement abolished the Jesuits. I'm not surprised that Frank the Hippie Pope is one.

Remember what the Athanasius creed says "This is the Catholic Faith".

And you try to tell me these impostors were Catholic before the Church was?

 

[Rumpel]

Correct as far as I know. My belief is that Luther overreacted to the excesses of the Catholic Church of his time, not hard to do. He rejected what Catholics believe, that Faith without works is dead.” To me as a lifelong Catholic, the primacy of faith seems absurd, as if God is some egomaniac who doesn’t care how you live your life so long as you believe.

..... as if God is some egomaniac - well said!

 

[The Mark]

I was literally shocked to hear @Crunchtime state that Catholics are not Christians.

His reasoning was that the Protestants had a Reformation and essentially kicked the Catholics and Greek Orthodox out.

Who agrees with this?

Do they believe in Christ in some form?

If so, they're Christians, more or less.

****ers have split into so many sects I don't even want to try and figure out the mess.

 

[mrdeltoid]

The root message of Christ is that we need not even do that. The root message is that you (generally) no longer have to lug around big old tomes, build ornate temples, sacrifice animals and otherwise spend all of your time trying to back door your way into the good graces of a vengeful and jealous god. Yes, love the Lord, but now all of this is about how we treat our fellow man in word and deed so if you can’t love your neighbor then there’s no hope for you. It’s as simple and complicated as that.

Agree. I'm just saying, when questioned in good faith, I prefer to be able to support my responses with scripture, when possible.