Is Catholicism part of/is Christianity?

[TypicalRussian]

I was literally shocked to hear @Crunchtime state that Catholics are not Christians.

His reasoning was that the Protestants had a Reformation and essentially kicked the Catholics and Greek Orthodox out.

Who agrees with this?

he is utterly stupid and inane. He will not have a good time in hell

 

[mrdeltoid]

Not that word, but the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all being "God" has a Biblical basis. That's why that is a central concept in almost all Christian denominations.

The trinity doctrine, as taught today in many sects (all three being the one and the same being) was brought into the church by Tertullian, a pagan convert. It's a "manmade doctrine".

 

[MrNiceGuy]

The trinity doctrine, as taught today in many sects (all three being the one and the same being) was brought into the church by Tertullian, a pagan convert. It's a "manmade doctrine".

The entire dogma of any Christian church is man made.

 

[it's just me]

******

 

[mrdeltoid]

Do you worship Jesus or a book? My guess is that you worship a book you don't know enough about. When I sad "read" and "study" I meant read and study the history. There are writings of the people who were there available for your perusal for the price of a free download, and if you have a computer and a way to reach the internet there is no need to be ignorant or bamboozled by con men instead of hanging out here.

I think you are an honest seeker but you haven't gone far enough yet.

I'm a Christian. When I have a question about Christian doctrine, I refer to scripture. I pray for guidance when referring to scripture. That's about it. I'm confident that following the inspired word of God to the best of my ability, put's me on solid ground. If you find that to be "ignorant or bamboozled", I'm ok with it. We can agree to disagree, agreeably.

 

[mrdeltoid]

I was speaking more to the word "Trinity", than the pagan origins of its doctrine. Either way, neither man appear in the bible.

 

[it's just me]

I'm a Christian. When I have a question about Christian doctrine, I refer to scripture. I pray for guidance when referring to scripture. That's about it. I'm confident that following the inspired word of God to the best of my ability, put's me on solid ground. If you find that to be "ignorant or bamboozled", I'm ok with it. We can agree to disagree, agreeably.

That's what Jehovah's Witnesses think. And Mormons. And every stripe of fundamentalist Protestant across the fruited plain.

But, suit yourself.

 

[mrdeltoid]

The entire dogma of any Christian church is man made.

I believe the bible is the inspired word of God.

 

[mrdeltoid]

That's what Jehovah's Witnesses think. And Mormons. And every stripe of fundamentalist Protestant across the fruited plain.

But, suit yourself.

Those sects all add things that go against the bible. I do not. That's the reason I don't align myself with any of those. BTW, what is your belief?

 

[it's just me]

Those sects all add things that go against the bible. I do not. That's the reason I don't align myself with any of those. BTW, what is your belief?

I have a lot of beliefs. Mostly I adhere to Catholic doctrine except when it doesn't fit.

 

[mrdeltoid]

I have a lot of beliefs. Mostly I adhere to Catholic doctrine except when it doesn't fit.

Sounds like we're of similar beliefs. We probably agree on more things than we disagree on.

 

[it's just me]

Sounds like we're of similar beliefs. We probably agree on more things than we disagree on.

Well, I'm an Anglican Priest, retired.

If you know where we came from you know we are basically Catholic without all of the hocus pocus, and by the way, Protestants have way more hocus pocus than anybody else does.

 

[Rumpel]

The entire dogma of any Christian church is man made.

Of course it is!
Man-made and woman-made - and probably also non-binary-made!

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Of course it is!
Man-made and woman-made - and probably also non-binary-made!

Gender fluid made.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Those sects all add things that go against the bible. I do not. That's the reason I don't align myself with any of those. BTW, what is your belief?

What things do they add that go against the Bible? Do you have an example?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I believe the bible is the inspired word of God.

The talking donkey in Numbers 22 is the inspired word of God?

Or that God created light before he created the sun and the stars?

Or the part where Lot's daughters get him drunk and have sex with him?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I'm a Christian. When I have a question about Christian doctrine, I refer to scripture. I pray for guidance when referring to scripture. That's about it. I'm confident that following the inspired word of God to the best of my ability, put's me on solid ground. If you find that to be "ignorant or bamboozled", I'm ok with it. We can agree to disagree, agreeably.

One big issue that complicates matter is the difference of opinion as to what constitutes "scripture." Catholics have, for example, the Deuterocanonicals, which are not accepted by Protestants. So, when one refers to scripture, one might be referring to different things.

 

[it's just me]

One big issue that complicates matter is the difference of opinion as to what constitutes "scripture." Catholics have, for example, the Deuterocanonicals, which are not accepted by Protestants. So, when one refers to scripture, one might be referring to different things.

Don't pay any attention to him, this is typical of people who are not really familiar with the subject.

Exactly how many readings in the Church Lectionary Calendar are from the Deuterocanon, Mr. Nice Guy?

 

[Rumpel]

What things do they add that go against the Bible? Do you have an example?

That only 144.000 persons will go to heaven, because there is not more seating room there.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

That only 144.000 persons will go to heaven, because there is not more seating room there.

That is not an accurate recitation of JW dogma. They believe the 144,000 (which they consider to be synonymous with the "little flock" of Luke 12 will serve with Christ as king-priests for the thousand years referred to in Revelation, while all other people accepted by God (the "other sheep" of John 10:16 are composed of "the great crowd" of Revelation 7:9-14 and the resurrected "righteous and the unrighteous" ones of Acts 24:15), will be given an opportunity to live forever in a restored Paradise on earth.

See, Revelation 7. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+7&version=NIV and Revelation 14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+14&version=NIV

So, like all the denominations, they interpret the Biblical passages, but they have a Biblical basis for their beliefs. Like the Trinity in the Catholic Church - the word isn't used in the Bible, but if you follow the logic of the Catholic Church, they have a Biblical basis.

The JWs don't say only 1144,000 go to heaven, nor do they reference seating room. They're referring tot he 144,000 specifically referred to in the Bible.

 

[Rumpel]

nor do they reference seating room.

I know.
That is my own invention.
But still I say:

It sheds a very poor light on the "Almighty" if he cannot seat more than 144.000 persons in his so-called heaven.
Looks a bit narrow-minded and thrifty.

 

[Rumpel]

There is a list of things that Catholics may believe - but that fundamental Protestants find "un-Christian":

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/which-so-called-pagan-things-would-you-like-to-keep.487068/ <<<

 

[jamesrage]

This is so fundamentally wrong a course should be taught about how to be this categorically wrong and still open one's mouth or type out one's opinions.

Bravo for that.

So you are saying Catholics do not have patron saints(that this is made up) and do not pray to or venerate saints?

 

[mrdeltoid]

Well, I'm an Anglican Priest, retired.

If you know where we came from you know we are basically Catholic without all of the hocus pocus, and by the way, Protestants have way more hocus pocus than anybody else does.

If by "hocus pocus", you mean man made traditions/teachings not in the bible, I never did a comparative count. I will say, that both catholic and protestant churches of today have plenty of it. After I left the catholic church, and explored by attending Methodist Lutheran churches, the pastors when questioned about things they taught contrary to scripture, they became flustered, snarky, or in the Catholic Pastor's case, downright angry. I've had long discussions with a JW, who was just as strident in defense of their stretching/twisting scripture.
As a retired priest, you are certainly theologically astute. In your opinion, why do you think the Pastors I spoke with defended provable paganism like Christmas trees, idolatry and the like?

 

[it's just me]

If by "hocus pocus", you mean man made traditions/teachings not in the bible, I never did a comparative count. I will say, that both catholic and protestant churches of today have plenty of it. After I left the catholic church, and explored by attending Methodist Lutheran churches, the pastors when questioned about things they taught contrary to scripture, they became flustered, snarky, or in the Catholic Pastor's case, downright angry. I've had long discussions with a JW, who was just as strident in defense of their stretching/twisting scripture.
As a retired priest, you are certainly theologically astute. In your opinion, why do you think the Pastors I spoke with defended provable paganism like Christmas trees, idolatry and the like?

Its because the people who are constantly whining about "pagan rituals" are basically straining at gnats and swallowing camels. You have to run pretty far pretty fast to get away from the Pagans - wedding rings, neckties, the list goes on and on. Further, you know bloody well that the JWs insistence that Jesus was crucified on a stake instead of a cross is just poking Catholics in the eye, which is the worst reason in the world for condemning a Christian group if you are going to claim to be Christian yourself.

Like me, the Pastors you speak of I am sure didn't believe your claims and have probably heard them too many times.

You are missing the point of the Gospel: clean up your own act and leave the rest of them to God.