Is assisted suicide murder? (1 Viewer)

[DarkWizard12]

*Is assisted suicide murder?

Can a mod fix the title for me?


Assisted suicide is illegal in some states. Since people like to argue about the "legality" qualifier in the definition of murder, I would wonder how many pro-choicers would call someone who does assisted suicide a murderer, or how many of them would demonstrate with signs saying "assisted suicide is murder".

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

*Is assisted suicide murder?

Can a mod fix the title for me?


Assisted suicide is illegal in some states. Since people like to argue about the "legality" qualifier in the definition of murder, I would wonder how many pro-choicers would call someone who does assisted suicide a murderer, or how many of them would demonstrate with signs saying "assisted suicide is murder".

You're all over the place. I'm one that feels that a woman's body is hers to do with as she pleases as long as she's not hurting herself or others. So you're saying since I'm pro-choice I should call death with dignity, "murder"?

I'm sorry, I don't get it.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Another disaster thread in the making.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

You're all over the place. I'm one that feels that a woman's body is hers to do with as she pleases as long as she's not hurting herself or others. So you're saying since I'm pro-choice I should call death with dignity, "murder"?

I'm sorry, I don't get it.

You can feel whatever you want to feel. If you say, however, that abortion isn't murder because it's not illegal, then you must also say that assisted suicide is murder because it is illegal, right?

 

[Mycroft]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

It's all about how you slant the rhetoric.

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

You can feel whatever you want to feel. If you say, however, that abortion isn't murder because it's not illegal, then you must also say that assisted suicide is murder because it is illegal, right?

But assisted suicide is NOT illegal. My dad went naturally but he had a "cocktail" waiting in the fridge should he have begun experiencing pain from his illness. All totally legal and by the way - also the right thing to do.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

But assisted suicide is NOT illegal. My dad went naturally but he had a "cocktail" waiting in the fridge should he have begun experiencing pain from his illness. All totally legal and by the way - also the right thing to do.

It depends on the state, but it is illegal in most. Since that is the case, it's not REALLY false to say assissted suicide is murder, is it? at least if you live outside the west coast.

"Depending on the circumstances, euthanasia is regarded as either manslaughter or murder and is punishable by up to life imprisonment.""

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

It depends on the state, but it is illegal in most. Since that is the case, it's not REALLY false to say assissted suicide is murder, is it? at least if you live outside the west coast.

"Depending on the circumstances, euthanasia is regarded as either manslaughter or murder and is punishable by up to life imprisonment.""

Illegal or not, death with dignity is not murder. It's humane, it's merciful, it's the choice of the terminally ill person. Same goes for a woman making a choice of whether or not to take her pregnancy to term. It's not one else's business but hers, legal or not.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Illegal or not, death with dignity is not murder. It's humane, it's merciful, it's the choice of the terminally ill person. Same goes for a woman making a choice of whether or not to take her pregnancy to term. It's not one else's business but hers, legal or not.

"Illegal or not". Interesting phrase. Why is it that the left is allowed to say "it's not murder, illegal or not" but no one on the right is allowed to say "it's murder, illegal or not". Anytime a religious person says "abortion is murder" anyone on the left would predictably say "that's not correct because murder is illegal killing, and abortion isn't illegal". So really, I'm curious, humane or not, why would you think assisted suicide isn't murder, when it meets the criteria for murder?

 

[Rexedgar]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

I avoid this forum like the plague; but to address the title, we put our pets down when the quality of life becomes an issue for them.

 

[HonestJoe]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

You can feel whatever you want to feel. If you say, however, that abortion isn't murder because it's not illegal, then you must also say that assisted suicide is murder because it is illegal, right?

Stealing a car is illegal but it isn’t murder. Murder isn’t only defined by its illegality, it is just one of the relevant features. Taking part in an assisted suicide could mean any of a whole range of action, some which could fall under the legal definition of murder and some which certainly wouldn’t.

The bottom line in all of this is that legally wrong and morally wrong are distinct definitions. It doesn’t make any different to the moral rights and wrongs of abortion (or assisted suicide) whether it is legally recognised as murder or not. A definition of murder comes about as a consequence of the agreed morality of an act, not the other way around.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Stealing a car is illegal but it isn’t murder. Murder isn’t only defined by its illegality, it is just one of the relevant features. Taking part in an assisted suicide could mean any of a whole range of action, some which could fall under the legal definition of murder and some which certainly wouldn’t.

The bottom line in all of this is that legally wrong and morally wrong are distinct definitions. It doesn’t make any different to the moral rights and wrongs of abortion (or assisted suicide) whether it is legally recognised as murder or not. A definition of murder comes about as a consequence of the agreed morality of an act, not the other way around.

You're just avoiding the question. Murder is 'Illegal killing" Assisted suicide is killing, and most states have ruled it illegal, therefore, how is it not murder? IT meets the pro-choicer listed criteria for murder, that they themselves have voiced.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

You're just avoiding the question. Murder is 'Illegal killing" Assisted suicide is killing, and most states have ruled it illegal, therefore, how is it not murder? IT meets the pro-choicer listed criteria for murder, that they themselves have voiced.

The two different scenarios are on two different yet fluid legality planes. The legality of assisted suicide has yet to catch up with the rulings regarding abortion. But it will.

 

[HonestJoe]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

You're just avoiding the question. Murder is 'Illegal killing" Assisted suicide is killing, and most states have ruled it illegal, therefore, how is it not murder? IT meets the pro-choicer listed criteria for murder, that they themselves have voiced.

No, I answered the question, accurately and completely; "Taking part in an assisted suicide could mean any of a whole range of action, some which could fall under the legal definition of murder". You can have the simple "Yes" is that would really make you happy but I'd expect you to also acknowledge the rest of my response too.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

The two different scenarios are on two different yet fluid legality planes. The legality of assisted suicide has yet to catch up with the rulings regarding abortion. But it will.

But until it "catches up", you'd have to concede, that when a pro-lifer says "assisted suicide is murder", they're not entirely wrong. Most likely, it is illegal and defined that way in their states.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

No.

If someone commits suicide, a murder did not take place. I don't think you can make this argument stand.

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

"Illegal or not". Interesting phrase. Why is it that the left is allowed to say "it's not murder, illegal or not" but no one on the right is allowed to say "it's murder, illegal or not". Anytime a religious person says "abortion is murder" anyone on the left would predictably say "that's not correct because murder is illegal killing, and abortion isn't illegal". So really, I'm curious, humane or not, why would you think assisted suicide isn't murder, when it meets the criteria for murder?

but no one on the right is allowed to say "it's murder, illegal or not".

You're allowed to say the earth is flat as many people do. You'd simply be wrong.

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

No.

If someone commits suicide, a murder did not take place. I don't think you can make this argument stand.

His subject is a "Kevorkian" like character that assists in the suicide.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

You're allowed to say the earth is flat as many people do. You'd simply be wrong.

so saying that an "illegal killing" (assisted suicide) is murder is wrong, because.....?

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

so saying that an "illegal killing" (assisted suicide) is murder is wrong, because.....?

For the reasons I've already stated in this thread.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

But until it "catches up", you'd have to concede, that when a pro-lifer says "assisted suicide is murder", they're not entirely wrong. Most likely, it is illegal and defined that way in their states.

It depends on location. AE is legal in many European nations and some US states. It's acceptance ethically and legally is growing.

So you can't use the blanket statement "it is murder" without being specific.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

For the reasons I've already stated in this thread.

but you never addressed the things that make murder, murder. Namely, its illegality and its 'killing'. In my state, texas, the law outright says that it's murder. So tell me, how am I wrong, if i protest in texas, and I say "assissted suiciide is murder"? factually, I would be correct.

 

[Felis Leo]

*Is assisted suicide murder?

Can a mod fix the title for me?


Assisted suicide is illegal in some states. Since people like to argue about the "legality" qualifier in the definition of murder, I would wonder how many pro-choicers would call someone who does assisted suicide a murderer, or how many of them would demonstrate with signs saying "assisted suicide is murder".

It can be, depending on the circumstances. If we are talking about putting a glass of poison in front of someone with a straw so that they can drink à la The Sea Inside, I would not consider that murder, because the person is consciously choosing to take their own life. But directly taking the action that is ending that person's life, like administering a lethal injection cocktail? Yes. I would consider that murder, even if done with the noblest of intentions. I do not believe anyone, whether a physician or a layman, should be allowed the right to take directly take someone's life even with that person's consent without the justification of threat to one's own life or those of others.

Perhaps this is because I have read up a little bit too much on 1920s and 1930s Germany, and the horrors that came with the concept of Life Unworthy of Life designation. I just do not think it is appropriate or moral to teach our physicians how to kill people. Anymore than it was moral in the 1920s to train and encourage doctors to forcibly sterilize the mentally handicapped or petty criminals.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

I am in favor of assisted suicide but legally, murder is the unlawful, premeditated taking of a human life by another human. So in most jurisdictions, yes, it is murder. It shouldn’t be, though.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

It can be, depending on the circumstances. If we are talking about putting a glass of poison in front of someone with a straw so that they can drink à la The Sea Inside, I would not consider that murder, because the person is consciously choosing to take their own life. But directly taking the action that is ending that person's life, like administering a lethal injection cocktail? Yes. I would consider that murder, even if done with the noblest of intentions. I do not believe anyone, whether a physician or a layman, should be allowed the right to take directly take someone's life even with that person's consent without the justification of threat to one's own life or those of others.

But, I believe that gets weird. Should people who are on some kind of life support be kept on it until they can no longer be sustained? Is "pulling the plug" murder?

I remember the Terri Shaivo insanity.