Is assisted suicide murder?

[Felis Leo]

But, I believe that gets weird. Should people who are on some kind of life support be kept on it until they can no longer be sustained? Is "pulling the plug" murder?

I remember the Terri Shaivo insanity.

That is an interesting case. Withdrawing care to a person whose brain has literally shriveled to the size of a raisin and/or will never be able to have any kind of quality of life is one thing. Putting the means of death within someone's reach who wants to die is on the borderline, but may be acceptable. But actively killing someone on the other hand, via lethal injection or some other means? I find that totally unacceptable, even if done with informed consent of the person being killed. Those who do so should be tried for murder, though I would not argue that they should be tried for heinous murder, as I would not consider the killing malicious (in other words, were it up to me, I would not seek the death penalty in those jurisdictions that otherwise impose it).

 

[<alt>doxygen]

That is an interesting case. Withdrawing care to a person whose brain has literally shriveled to the size of a raisin and/or will never be able to have any kind of quality of life is one thing. Putting the means of death within someone's reach who wants to die is on the borderline, but may be acceptable. But actively killing someone on the other hand, via lethal injection or some other means? I find that totally unacceptable, even if done with informed consent of the person being killed. Those who do so should be tried for murder, though I would not argue that they should be tried for heinous murder, as I would not consider the killing malicious (in other words, were it up to me, I would not seek the death penalty in those jurisdictions that otherwise impose it).

I would agree with the bolded, but add an exception for cases where someone is too disabled to take their own life, but they are able to communicate that their quality of life is nil and they want to go. However, I would find it difficult/impossible to actually assist someone in a case like that.

I think we are down to inventing rare corner cases for debate.

 

[JeffreyB]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Illegal or not, death with dignity is not murder. It's humane, it's merciful, it's the choice of the terminally ill person. Same goes for a woman making a choice of whether or not to take her pregnancy to term. It's not one else's business but hers, legal or not.

It isn't her option/right because it infringes on the right of the child to live.

 

[Dragonfly]

Is assisted suicide murder?

Nope.

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

but you never addressed the things that make murder, murder. Namely, its illegality and its 'killing'. In my state, texas, the law outright says that it's murder. So tell me, how am I wrong, if i protest in texas, and I say "assissted suiciide is murder"? factually, I would be correct.

You're not wrong to protest it. The first amendment guarantees all of us the freedom to express our opinions. You're just wrong to try to prevent someone from dying with dignity - your being against my right to die with dignity is cruel, in my opinion.

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

It isn't her option/right because it infringes on the right of the child to live.

I'm sorry, what child are we talking about?

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

I am in favor of assisted suicide but legally, murder is the unlawful, premeditated taking of a human life by another human. So in most jurisdictions, yes, it is murder. It shouldn’t be, though.

Sure about that? Maybe you should look up the definition of "second degree murder" before saying something.

Second-degree murder: any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance. "Second Degree Murder Overview". FindLaw. Retrieved 10 September 2017.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Sure about that? Maybe you should look up the definition of "second degree murder" before saying something.

Second-degree murder: any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance. "Second Degree Murder Overview". FindLaw. Retrieved 10 September 2017.

Well sure, you can then break it down in degrees and you have manslaughter, but then we are going to get into the weeds of how each state defines it.

I am staunchly prochoice, but I get what the OP is saying. If we simply say abortion isn't murder because it is legal then to be consistent we have to call assisted suicide murder, at least in jurisdictions where it is illegal. And personally, I am a stickler for consistency in my arguments and political positions.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Well sure, you can then break it down in degrees and you have manslaughter, but then we are going to get into the weeds of how each state defines it.

I am staunchly prochoice, but I get what the OP is saying. If we simply say abortion isn't murder because it is legal then to be consistent we have to call assisted suicide murder, at least in jurisdictions where it is illegal. And personally, I am a stickler for consistency in my arguments and political positions.

YOU GET IT! dude. 1000 thanks to you. You are today's winner.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

YOU GET IT! dude. 1000 thanks to you. You are today's winner.

Thank you. We probably are on different sides of the abortion issue, but you pointed out an inconsistency I didn't know I had and now I won't make that mistake again.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

It isn't her option/right because it infringes on the right of the child to live.

The "child" does not have any rights. And if it did, nobody has the right to use the body of another for life support against their will.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Assisted suicide aka Medical Assistance in Death is legal in my country, if done under certain conditions, namely by a physician, at the request of a patient who has six months or less to live.

Outside of that, it could be murder, yes. However, in my country:

One might expect euthanasia to be prosecuted as first-degree murder, because there is intent to cause death, which is required for a conviction of murder, and the act is most often planned and deliberate, which is required for a conviction of first-degree murder. However, charges of euthanasia have been influenced principally by other criteria: the fact that the primary intent is to relieve suffering; the unpredictable attitude of juries; and technical difficulties in proving the exact cause of death when a person is, in any case, close to death and receiving high doses of pain medication.

https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/2015139E#a6

 

[JeffreyB]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

The "child" does not have any rights. And if it did, nobody has the right to use the body of another for life support against their will.

slaves didn't have rights either but it didn't make it right and we eventually corrected that mistake just as i hope we will with this one some day. it wasn't against there will ( 95 percent of abortions) when they had sex and got pregnant, no person has the right to kill another for there own personal connivance.

discreation - 95 is a estimate as i'm not sure what the actual percentage is but its incredibly marginal.

 

[JeffreyB]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

I'm sorry, what child are we talking about?

um.... abortion? i dont understand the question.

 

[lurchadams]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

um.... abortion? i dont understand the question.

Yep, well on that we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Lursa]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

"Illegal or not". Interesting phrase. Why is it that the left is allowed to say "it's not murder, illegal or not" but no one on the right is allowed to say "it's murder, illegal or not". Anytime a religious person says "abortion is murder" anyone on the left would predictably say "that's not correct because murder is illegal killing, and abortion isn't illegal". So really, I'm curious, humane or not, why would you think assisted suicide isn't murder, when it meets the criteria for murder?

Why isnt self-defense or killing in war called murder?

Is suicide murder?

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Why isnt self-defense or killing in war called murder?

Is suicide murder?

According to the pro-choice, they wouldn't be called murder because it's not illegal killing in those circumstances.

 

[Lursa]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

This is pretty easy.

We recognize a right to life for people. And a person can decide to no longer exercise their right to life. Assisted suicide is not done without the person's consent.

The unborn has no right to life. It is also completely incapable of exercising its right to life until birth. Before that, it is wholly intertwined with and dependent on the physiology of another individual.


Since you are asking about the legal aspects of the issue...this is the law.

 

[Lursa]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

According to the pro-choice, they wouldn't be called murder because it's not illegal killing in those circumstances.

That doesnt answer my questions, can you do so?

Why isnt self-defense or killing in war called murder?

Is suicide murder?​

 

[Lursa]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

You're not wrong to protest it. The first amendment guarantees all of us the freedom to express our opinions. You're just wrong to try to prevent someone from dying with dignity - your being against my right to die with dignity is cruel, in my opinion.

And incredibly arrogant and selfish IMO.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

That doesnt answer my questions, can you do so?

Why isnt self-defense or killing in war called murder?

Is suicide murder?​

Yea it does. I answered the question. Self-Defense and Killing in war are not illegal in any sense. How then, could they be called murder, according to the pro-choicers? Remember, I'm not arguing from a pro-life position here. I'm arguing from a pro-choice position, that it MUST be illegal for something to be murder, or else it simply doesn't fit the definition.

Is suicide murder? That really depends. I don't think suicide is currently illegal, because you can't prosecute anyone for it. But you would need to correct on that, if it's illegal or not in the US.

 

[Lursa]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Yea it does. I answered the question. Self-Defense and Killing in war are not illegal in any sense. How then, could they be called murder?

Is suicide murder? That really depends. I don't think suicide is currently illegal, because you can't prosecute anyone for it. But you would need to correct on that, if it's illegal or not in the US.

Your first statement is untrue, as people do sometimes get prosecuted for offenses when they make those claims. Why?

What is the key to those things that makes them legal?

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Why isnt self-defense or killing in war called murder?

Because, as the pro-choice side would say, neither of those are illegal. This is 3 times. Does this answer the question?

 

[iguanaman]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

"Illegal or not". Interesting phrase. Why is it that the left is allowed to say "it's not murder, illegal or not" but no one on the right is allowed to say "it's murder, illegal or not". Anytime a religious person says "abortion is murder" anyone on the left would predictably say "that's not correct because murder is illegal killing, and abortion isn't illegal". So really, I'm curious, humane or not, why would you think assisted suicide isn't murder, when it meets the criteria for murder?

Assisted suicide of the terminally ill meets the criteria of a protected right of the individual and so does abortion. Because some States call it illegal does not change the status of that right. Such things happen daily in all States and it is between a patient, their loved ones and their doctor. The State has no business being involved. It's funny how Righties claim they are all for freedom and a small Govt. but turn around and demand the State be involved in the most private of decisions. They acclaim Big Brother is your friend. :lol: They tell us that Govt. sucks at providing heath care for all but somehow it excels at deciding difficult questions of morality for all of us and they relish the thought pf imprisoning those that disagree.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Re: I assisted suicide murder?

Your first statement is untrue, as people do sometimes get prosecuted for offenses when they make those claims. Why?

How is my first statement untrue? Just because a person is prosecuted, doesn't mean they did anything illegal. Look at George Zimmerman, for example.