Is an overbearing federal government - no matter what party dominates - moving us toward civil war??

[Logophile]

I've thought a lot about this lately, and think that only way to keep the United States "united" is to hand more power to the states and shrink the federal government. Given all the animosity and vitriol after Kirk's murder, I see an ever widening philosophical chasm that is threatening our ability to coexist. I think the solution is to hand all social and most practical legislative reins to the states, so that geographically, people can gravitate toward like minded areas, and reserve the federal government's role to that which is similar to the EU, only more restricted, with its primary role to support defense. Otherwise, I fear we're headed toward an ever more destructive domestic outcome. States are far more hands on when it comes to the needs of their constituents. I'm still trying to shape how it would look, but I think radically broadening states' rights is the path to our salvation. What say you??

 

[Tigerace117]

I've thought a lot about this lately, and think that only way to keep the United States "united" is to hand more power to the states and shrink the federal government. Given all the animosity and vitriol after Kirk's murder, I see an ever widening philosophical chasm that is threatening our ability to coexist. I think the solution is to hand all social and most practical legislative reins to the states, so that geographically, people can gravitate toward like minded areas, and reserve the federal government's role to that which is similar to the EU, only more restricted, with its primary role to support defense. Otherwise, I fear we're headed toward an ever more destructive domestic outcome. States are far more hands on when it comes to the needs of their constituents. I'm still trying to shape how it would look, but I think radically broadening states' rights is the path to our salvation. What say you??

Except we’ve already seen from history that doing that just allows the states to ignore the constitution and brutally oppress minorities, as the South so happily did for decades

Your plan also fails to take into account red areas in blue states and vice versa.

 

[Logophile]

Most constitutional rights would be shaped by the states. I think anybody believing that minorities would be oppressed fail to take into account two factors: money and mobility. States need their minority residents as well as whatever is left of their majority, and as the overriding priority of most humans is economic, therein likes the solution to any potential "oppression." People don't want strong and needed contributors to leave so the driving force would be equitable treatment

 

[Tigerace117]

Most constitutional rights would be shaped by the states. I think anybody believing that minorities would be oppressed fail to take into consideration two factors: money and mobility. States need their minority residents, and the overriding priority of most humans is economic, so therein likes the solution to any potential "oppression." People don't want strong contributors to leave, do they??

Oh really?

Because money didn’t stop Jim Crow from being implemented in the first place.

Not everyone is able to move from one state to another in the first place, so “mobility” is rather meaningless as well.

 

[Logophile]

We're overflowing with a population American couldn't even dream of during Jim Crowe, not to mention all our huge technological advances that have us globally connected. We've also moved past racism but for very small pockets. Racism is a politically driven meme, nothing more

 

[ttwtt78640]

I've thought a lot about this lately, and think that only way to keep the United States "united" is to hand more power to the states and shrink the federal government. Given all the animosity and vitriol after Kirk's murder, I see an ever widening philosophical chasm that is threatening our ability to coexist. I think the solution is to hand all social and most practical legislative reins to the states, so that geographically, people can gravitate toward like minded areas, and reserve the federal government's role to that which is similar to the EU, only more restricted, with its primary role to support defense. Otherwise, I fear we're headed toward an ever more destructive domestic outcome. States are far more hands on when it comes to the needs of their constituents. I'm still trying to shape how it would look, but I think radically broadening states' rights is the path to our salvation. What say you??

While I agree that the federal government continuously grows more powerful and expensive, I doubt many (and surely not most) congress critters will agree to increasing their state/local taxes to stop (much less reverse) that trend.

Federal funds (bribes?) paid to state/local governments and/or to their residents are seen as being “free” (come at no additional cost to state/local taxpayers) money. Keep in mind that congress critters enjoy re-election rates of over 90% by continuously engaging in annual federal deficit (stimulus?) spending.

 

[Loulit01]

Civil war again? No one has explained to me how it will be fought. Whose side will the air force take? What will the Navy do? How do you know when you win?

Civil war. Please.

 

[Logophile]

While I agree that the federal government continuously grows more powerful and expensive, I doubt many (and surely not most) congress critters will agree to increasing their state/local taxes to stop (much less reverse) that trend.

Federal funds (bribes?) paid to state/local governments and/or to their residents are seen as being “free” (come at no additional cost to state/local taxpayers) money. Keep in mind that congress critters enjoy re-election rates of over 90% by continuously engaging in annual federal deficit (stimulus?) spending.

I agree, but those days are coming to an end, essentially because of fiscal realities. There's no denying a 36 plus trillion dollar debt, and our ability to pay the interest, and dole stimulus spending is gonna be tough without us winding up a "banana republic"

 

[Logophile]

Civil war again? No one has explained to me how it will be fought. Whose side will the air force take? What will the Navy do? How do you know when you win?

Civil war. Please.

Read the context please. This is a general discussion about states versus federal rights, not the particulars about how to wage a war. You're so anxious to make some straw man insult, that you can't contribute a single constructive post??

 

[BirdinHand]

I think the division amongst Americans is intentional and not organic.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I agree, but those days are coming to an end, essentially because of fiscal realities. There's no denying a 36 plus trillion dollar debt, and our ability to pay the interest, and dole stimulus spending is gonna be tough without us winding up a "banana republic"

We’ve been hearing that for decades, yet the electorate has a choice between voting for the ‘viable’ candidate from the party for a bigger (more powerful and expensive) federal or the ‘viable’ candidate from the party for a huge federal government. Under our two party system, we the sheeple have limited ‘viable’ choices.

 

[Helix]

In general, only fools think that they have the stomach for another American Civil War or that anything good will come of it without many decades of strife in between. If it does happen, be sure that the rest of your life will be a pile of hardscrabble suck.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Read the context please. This is a general discussion about states versus federal rights, not the particulars about how to wage a war. You're so anxious to make some straw man insult, that you can't contribute a single constructive post??

IMHO, it’s not about rights, which are (largely) the same in every state - it’s about the federal government’s unique ability (power?) to easily borrow (print?) and spend more than they dare demand in taxation, while the state/local governments lack that ability (power?) to spend more than they dare demand in taxation.

 

[Loulit01]

We’ve been hearing that for decades, yet the electorate has a choice between voting for the ‘viable’ candidate from the party for a bigger (more powerful and expensive) federal or the ‘viable’ candidate from the party for a huge federal government. Under our two party system, we the sheeple have limited ‘viable’ choices.

The two party system provides the illusion of choice.

In general, only fools think that they have the stomach for another American Civil War or that anything good will come of it without many decades of strife in between. If it does happen, be sure that the rest of your life will be a pile of hardscrabble suck.

And short.

 

[Helix]

The two party system provides the illusion of choice.

And short.

For some, for sure. For the rest, they will scramble for each day.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I've thought a lot about this lately, and think that only way to keep the United States "united" is to hand more power to the states and shrink the federal government. Given all the animosity and vitriol after Kirk's murder, I see an ever widening philosophical chasm that is threatening our ability to coexist. I think the solution is to hand all social and most practical legislative reins to the states, so that geographically, people can gravitate toward like minded areas, and reserve the federal government's role to that which is similar to the EU, only more restricted, with its primary role to support defense. Otherwise, I fear we're headed toward an ever more destructive domestic outcome. States are far more hands on when it comes to the needs of their constituents. I'm still trying to shape how it would look, but I think radically broadening states' rights is the path to our salvation. What say you??

I say NO!

I am for a strong Federal Government, and a weakening of State power. Why? Well in the first place just look to States like California, and New York, a couple of examples where they are pissing on the Constitution and Federal law in support of foreigners over their natural born citizens.

In the second place, we are a Union of United States, and that union would likely dissolve into a number of competing and combatting States much like prior "empires" the world over. To prevent that I would gladly re-up in the U.S. Army to fight to keep the Union "United."

 

[Logophile]

I think the division amongst Americans is intentional and not organic.

How so??

 

[SkyChief]

. . . Keep in mind that congress critters enjoy re-election rates of over 90% by continuously engaging in annual federal deficit (stimulus?) spending.

Today's electorate is a lot more ignorant than it was 30 years ago. I'll wager that most voters couldn't even name the three branches of government. Our representatives exploit the voters' ignorance, and are rewarded with many terms in office even though they have repeatedly demonstrated that they are wholly incompetent.

 

[Logophile]

I say NO!

I am for a strong Federal Government, and a weakening of State power. Why? Well in the first place just look to States like California, and New York, a couple of examples where they are pissing on the Constitution and Federal law in support of foreigners over their natural born citizens.

In the second place, we are a Union of United States, and that union would likely dissolve into a number of competing and combatting States much like prior "empires" the world over. To prevent that I would gladly re-up in the U.S. Army to fight to keep the Union "United."

I don't see it as viable as this point. It's fun to think we can force people to get along, but in reality, they have to want to, and it doesn't look like they do. We have all kinds of people on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds for a reason, and a lot has to do with a sense of disenfranchisement and insecurity as in fear of each other. The federal government cannot address the emotional state of the nation anymore. It's too self-serving and too distant. The federal government with all its employees and contractors is almost like a nation unto itself

 

[Logophile]

In general, only fools think that they have the stomach for another American Civil War or that anything good will come of it without many decades of strife in between. If it does happen, be sure that the rest of your life will be a pile of hardscrabble suck.

Well, right now, it looks like we have an awful lot of fools. I've never seen such rage, and it's not getting better. I'm looking for solutions

 

[Captain Adverse]

I don't see it as viable as this point. It's fun to think we can force people to get along, but in reality, they have to want to, and it doesn't look like they do. We have all kinds of people on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds for a reason, and a lot has to do with a sense of disenfranchisement and actual insecurity as in fear. The federal government cannot address the emotional state of the nation anymore. It's too big, too self-serving and too distant

I don't agree with your assessment. I think it is just a small but highly vocal activist segment of our population that is seeking exactly what you'd support for all sorts of partisan reasons.

I, on the other hand, recognize that in other parts of the world there appears to be a growing trend toward Socialism/Communism and that is something I oppose with all my will. So I want a United States willing to fight for the ideals the nation was founded on.

 

[Helix]

Well, right now, it looks like we have an awful lot of fools. I've never seen such rage, and it's not getting better. I'm looking for solutions

Civil war ain't it.

 

[Logophile]

Civil war ain't it.

Obviously it's what should be avoided at all costs, but demonstrably, human emotion is super-charged, and when it is, rational doesn't take precedence

 

[Logophile]

I don't agree with your assessment. I think it is just a small but highly vocal activist segment of our population that is seeking exactly what you'd support for all sorts of partisan reasons.

I, on the other hand, recognize that in other parts of the world there appears to be a growing trend toward Socialism/Communism and that is something I oppose with all my will. So I want a United States willing to fight for the ideals the nation was founded on.

Interesting, I don't see that trend, at least lately. There seems to be a backlash of sorts in western Europe, and Taiwan has taken a stand with support

 

[Gardener]

The most overbearing government I have ever seen was during covid.

Calling half of the country enemies of the state, forcing people to inject dangerous substances into their bodies, categorizing people as non-essential and depriving them of the ability to earn a living, preventing people from attending the Church of their choice, colluding with social media to censor information and ideas -- the list goes on and on.