Is America really the most powerfull nation in the world?

[MrAchilles]

You know I've been reading the responses from this thread, and this is the exact arrogance and ignorance i was talking about. No wonder the world doesn't like us. It's like everyones minds are closed and no one thinks for themselves.

And to clear up some things, I don't care how big China's army is, they cannot fight outside their own country. Lets not forget how many times they've been invaded throughout history.

Also the reason why I chose England as the most powerful, is because they don't boast about their military accomplishments (at least i haven't heard any). And don't forget how many common wealths they still have. Way more than we have that's for sure. And from what i hear (very reliable U.S. Army source) their special forces are the elite best of the best worldwide (that means better then the Green Berets and Delta Force units). As a whole the citizens probably don't like P.M. Blair, but they love the Queen and guess what, she's still head of state and commander-in-chief of the armed forces. And last time i checked, the last time America demanded anything from England it was the Revolutionary war. You know the whole freedom thing.

Furthermore a user from the U.K. stated that I shouldn't say England but the U.K. I know it's the U.K., but at the center of the U.K. is London, England. That's where all the decisions are made. Thanks for taking the time to read this. And I'm sorry if i got anyone mad, but open up your minds and you'll see what I'm talking about.

:lol:
No, I'm not. The outside world created us..we'd be nothing if the rest of the world decided we weren't worth the effort. We live in a symbiotic world..we're only powerful because the powers that be find our relationship to be mutually beneficial. If China decided not to trade with the U.S., increase the price of it's products, and sell them in bulk elsewhere the U.S. would be a collective cripple. If the M.E. decided to close the tap on the U.S. the U.S. would be a vegetable. We're already on life support as it is. We have MAJOR economic and political weaknesses.

Took the words right out my mouth.

 

[nkgupta80]

And to clear up some things, I don't care how big China's army is, they cannot fight outside their own country. Lets not forget how many times they've been invaded throughout history.

true, but they're building towards a more mobile force.

Also the reason why I chose England as the most powerful, is because they don't boast about their military accomplishments (at least i haven't heard any). And don't forget how many common wealths they still have. Way more than we have that's for sure. And from what i hear (very reliable source) their special forces the elite best of the best worldwide (that means better then the Green Berets and Delta Force units). As a whole the citizens probably don't like P.M. Blair, but they love the Queen and guess what, she's still head of state and commander-in-chief of the armed forces. And last time i checked, the last time America demanded anything from England it was the Revolutionary war.

that argument doesn't prove anything about how the UK is more powerful than the US. Just because their special forces are slightly better than ours, doesn't make them more powerful. Militarily, our airforce is unstoppable. Navy is unstoppable, our special forces are pretty damn good -- we just got the most technologically advanced and largest army in the world. UK would have no chance against that. Plus we got the most nukes.

 

[MrAchilles]

You obviously didn't read what I just said. While we boast, they keep their mouths shut. OPEN UP YOUR MIND!

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

You obviously didn't read what I just said. While we boast, they keep their mouths shut. OPEN UP YOUR MIND!

I see what you're getting at. 2 quotes remind me of that: Napoleon - "Place your iron hand within a velvet glove" FDR - "Speak softly and carry a big stick". The problem with constantly flexing our military muscles is that our tactics can be analyzed, our weaknesses exposed, potentially eliminating element of suprise. That was one of the mistakes Napoleon made..he didnt think the rest of the world would adapt to his method of waging war. The allied powers had the opportunity to analyze the structure of his military and tactics allowing them to find weaknesses in both. The other problem is that if we keep whacking people with the big stick the rest of the world powers will toss their twigs aside and try to find a larger stick than ours. It's already happened and continues to happen to this day. The fact that 1 nuclear detonation in the upper atmosphere could cripple our military in seconds is also a HUGE problem because our military communications would be completely cut off by the EMP and ultimate demise of our sattelites in low earth orbit.The list goes on and on...

 

[Kandahar]

So the largest factor in determining the power of a nation is in how much they boast?

Nope, humbleness doesn't even make the top 100 factors. Sorry.

 

[Kandahar]

I don't believe that we are the most powerful nation. Sure we have a lot of nuclear weaponry but the fact that it would ensure mutual destruction rules them out. One nuclear detonation in space or in the upper atmosphere and we're toast.

As would every other nation, so that's not a strike against the power of the United States.

Our intellectual standing is the result of international consulatation,

When I spoke of our intellectual dominance, I was referring to the large "brain drain" taking place around the world, where many of the brightest minds of various countries immigrate to the United States where they have more opportunities. The reverse is not true; you don't see America's best and brightest moving to Europe or Asia on a regular basis.

our political influence has declined significantly,

It's still significantly more than any other country in the world has.

and the success of our economy is dependant on cooperation from the rest of the world.

That's true of ALL nations.

You can't be the most powerful nation on earth and be dependant on and interwined with every other nation for intellectual and economic achievment as well as essential resources ie oil.

Quite the opposite. The nations that are still wallowing in autarky, such as North Korea and many African nations, are among the poorest in the world. Free trade (or "being dependent on every other nation") produces powerful nations.

 

[nkgupta80]

You obviously didn't read what I just said. While we boast, they keep their mouths shut. OPEN UP YOUR MIND!

i completely agree. We shouldn't blindly go on the notion that we are the most powerful country in the world. Countries will adapt, we have to adapt. I was just saying that at the moment, we are the most powerful, not the UK.

Frankly, i think all this nationalism will be a thing of the past soon enough. The world is too interdependent to allow for these kinds of arguments.

 

[nkgupta80]

You can't be the most powerful nation on earth and be dependant on and interwined with every other nation for intellectual and economic achievment as well as essential resources ie oil.

every powerful nation in the world has the same problem as the US. China is oil hungry, Russia is oil-hungry, as is the US. Thus you can't factor that in as a comparison.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

power is defined as the ability to bend people to your will and using that definition the U.S. is by far the most powerful nation on the face of the earth; what the U.S. wants the U.S. usually gets with few exceptions.
And we're not just the most powerful nation militarily either, through our huge economic influence the U.S. can bend the will of nations merely by offering or taking away financial aid and trade. Furthermore; we not only have the most hard power but we have the most soft power as well, I don't see many Americans imitating . . . say the French, but you see people all around the world eating at McDonalds, watching hollywood movies, and wearing levis. Even if you ask some of the people from the regions that most dislike the U.S. ie the Mid-East what country would they most like to live, they'll tell you the U.S..

 

[nkgupta80]

power is defined as the ability to bend people to your will and using that definition the U.S. is by far the most powerful nation on the face of the earth; what the U.S. wants the U.S. usually gets with few exceptions.
And not we're not just militarily the most powerful nation either we not only have the most hard power but we have the most soft power as well I don't see many Americans imitating . . . say the French, but you see people all around the world eating at McDonalds, watching hollywood movies, and wearing levis.

True. Currently the US is the superpower in the world. I don't understand how people can debate that in this thread.

However, I think this superpower status will inevitably diminish due to globalization.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

True. Currently the US is the superpower in the world. I don't understand how people can debate that in this thread.

However, I think this superpower status will inevitably diminish due to globalization.

I think that due to our already vast experience with free trade that globalization will only help to strengthen the U.S.'s economy and in turn increase our power. Why do you think Bush went to S. America last week to push for the FTAA (Free Trade of the Americas Agreement).

 

[Kandahar]

True. Currently the US is the superpower in the world. I don't understand how people can debate that in this thread.

However, I think this superpower status will inevitably diminish due to globalization.

I agree with this. America's relative power is declining and will continue to decline. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does seem to be a geopolitical reality.

 

[drugdealerssuck]

I voted yes, however, I don't believe we will stay on top forever. Too many of our "friends" can't wait to see us fall. They can have the world they are wishing for! Come on everybody sing along "Imagine theres no heaven...", no USA, no freedom, no one to stop a dictator from chopping up your family for speaking out against him.

 

[nkgupta80]

I think that due to our already vast experience with free trade that globalization will only help to strengthen the U.S.'s economy and in turn increase our power. Why do you think Bush went to S. America last week to push for the FTAA (Free Trade of the Americas Agreement).

True. US power (if we play our cards right) will not diminish. But relativily speaking it will. China's power is growing at a much much faster rate, as are the powers of many third-world countries.

 

[UtahBill]

No it is predicated more so on radiation via emitting diodes through neutrons than EMP. As you know there are neutrons in any matter which makes it vertually impossible for any life to go on in the targeted area.

Emitting diodes? I don't think so. I think you slipped in a word there that does not belong.
The real damaging agent in a neutron bomb is FAST neutrons. They are at a higher energy level and can penetrate armor better. Any living thing in the area becomes dead within hours. It takes a lot of dirt to protect against them, so dig your shelter deep.
Slow neutrons are used in nuclear power plants to sustain a chain reaction, as the slower ones, or thermalized ones, are more likely to cause fission than fast ones. They are born fast in the fission process, then the water in the vessel acts as a "moderator" to slow them down to the right energy level. Slow them down even more, to a complete stop, and they are harmless.
The EMP bomb is a scary thing as well. Just one could take out nearly all our electronics coast to coast, including our satellites.
Except in time of war, economic power is more important than military power.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

You obviously didn't read what I just said. While we boast, they keep their mouths shut. OPEN UP YOUR MIND!

WTF does boasting have to do with strength, that's just retarded. Boasting has nothing whatsoever do to with it. Your military, your economy, your influence, your technology all play a part... Boasting plays nothing. So if your criteria for most powerfull is not boasting then maybe Ireland or some other place I never hear about is.....:doh

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I see what you're getting at. 2 quotes remind me of that: Napoleon - "Place your iron hand within a velvet glove" FDR - "Speak softly and carry a big stick". The problem with constantly flexing our military muscles is that our tactics can be analyzed, our weaknesses exposed, potentially eliminating element of suprise. That was one of the mistakes Napoleon made..he didnt think the rest of the world would adapt to his method of waging war. The allied powers had the opportunity to analyze the structure of his military and tactics allowing them to find weaknesses in both. The other problem is that if we keep whacking people with the big stick the rest of the world powers will toss their twigs aside and try to find a larger stick than ours. It's already happened and continues to happen to this day. The fact that 1 nuclear detonation in the upper atmosphere could cripple our military in seconds is also a HUGE problem because our military communications would be completely cut off by the EMP and ultimate demise of our sattelites in low earth orbit.The list goes on and on...

Blah blah blah...... anything that effects us adversily does the same to anyone else of sufficient size to challenge us. We still have hard line communications and and communications that are hardened against EMP. Your theroy that 1 small detonation destroys our capability to exsist is as ridiculos as saying were not powerfull because we boast. The most powerfull nation in the world is the US. There really is no cognizent argument against that can stand up to our millitary, technology, economy and influence.... Sorry .. Just ain't going to happen

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I don't believe that we are the most powerful nation. Sure we have a lot of nuclear weaponry but the fact that it would ensure mutual destruction rules them out. One nuclear detonation in space or in the upper atmosphere and we're toast. Our intellectual standing is the result of international consulatation, our political influence has declined significantly, and the success of our economy is dependant on cooperation from the rest of the world. You can't be the most powerful nation on earth and be dependant on and interwined with every other nation for intellectual and economic achievment as well as essential resources ie oil.

Please explain to me this fairy tale of 1 nuclear detonation in space and were toast. I need to see a link supporting something this stupid. Suddenly there is a weapon that is going to cover the whole earth avoiding the curveture. This is going to be done in an atmoshphere already seeping with radiation. And against satelites hardened against EMP pulse... So please explain how this 1 detonation is going to take out the whole country?

 

[UtahBill]

Please explain to me this fairy tale of 1 nuclear detonation in space and were toast. I need to see a link supporting something this stupid. Suddenly there is a weapon that is going to cover the whole earth avoiding the curveture. This is going to be done in an atmoshphere already seeping with radiation. And against satelites hardened against EMP pulse... So please explain how this 1 detonation is going to take out the whole country?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/ebomb.html

Depending on altitude, and strength of the pulse, and choosing a strategic location, one bomb can do a lot to destroy our information sharing capabilities.
I doubt one bomb will do it, but if an enemy can launch one, they can launch a dozen.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/ebomb.html

Depending on altitude, and strength of the pulse, and choosing a strategic location, one bomb can do a lot to destroy our information sharing capabilities.
I doubt one bomb will do it, but if an enemy can launch one, they can launch a dozen.

A dozen is quite a bit different then one. And I think it's a lot more thena dozen thats going to be needed. Not to mention the technology for that type of weapon is not held by al that many nations I would gather. Hell China didn't even have MIRV technology to Clinton sold it to them

 

[UtahBill]

A dozen is quite a bit different then one. And I think it's a lot more thena dozen thats going to be needed. Not to mention the technology for that type of weapon is not held by al that many nations I would gather. Hell China didn't even have MIRV technology to Clinton sold it to them

There was a show on NORAD, the moutain complex in Colorado, yesterday. They discussed the EMP issue, and how they built the buildings inside the mountain to compensate. I suppose losing NORAD would be a major disaster for us, but I also suppose we have a backup somewhere. After reading the article in my link, it occurs to me that if this is what they are allowing us to know, what do they have that they are not telling us?
There could be some really powerful EMP type weapons already being stockpiled. Those would have to be delivered by missle, tho. I would hate to be the pilot and crew of an airplane that has to deliver one. As soon as it goes off, you might lose all the computers that are keeping the plane airborne. A lot of our planes nowadays are not capable of remaining airborne without the computers.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

There was a show on NORAD, the moutain complex in Colorado, yesterday. They discussed the EMP issue, and how they built the buildings inside the mountain to compensate. I suppose losing NORAD would be a major disaster for us, but I also suppose we have a backup somewhere. After reading the article in my link, it occurs to me that if this is what they are allowing us to know, what do they have that they are not telling us?
There could be some really powerful EMP type weapons already being stockpiled. Those would have to be delivered by missle, tho. I would hate to be the pilot and crew of an airplane that has to deliver one. As soon as it goes off, you might lose all the computers that are keeping the plane airborne. A lot of our planes nowadays are not capable of remaining airborne without the computers.

I would imagine that most if not all of our most important equipment has been hardened against EMP bursts

 

[UtahBill]

I would imagine that most if not all of our most important equipment has been hardened against EMP bursts

Probably only the military stuff. Imagine the chaos if all our banks lose their data.
Worse yet, how will we be able to order and pay for our Big Macs when the pictorial cash registers do not work?:mrgreen:

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Probably only the military stuff. Imagine the chaos if all our banks lose their data.
Worse yet, how will we be able to order and pay for our Big Macs when the pictorial cash registers do not work?:mrgreen:

Ya the McDonalds thing would be a disaster. The banking numbers are copied and secured in what I would bet is a hardend server in a hardened vault probably several times daily.

Nothings going to make up for the lack of Big Mac acceptance...LOL

 

[Napoleon's Nightingale]

Please explain to me this fairy tale of 1 nuclear detonation in space and were toast. I need to see a link supporting something this stupid. Suddenly there is a weapon that is going to cover the whole earth avoiding the curveture. This is going to be done in an atmoshphere already seeping with radiation. And against satelites hardened against EMP pulse... So please explain how this 1 detonation is going to take out the whole country?

It's not a fairy tale..it's a fact. By the way, despite intense pressure from NASA and the DOD no one wants to fork over the bucks to pay for EMP shielding for our sattelites and the long term problem for the sattelites is the radiation. Most of our sattelites in low earth orbit are decades old anyway. I didn't say that 1 detonation would take out the country. I said 1 detonation would cripple our military for days, weeks, or possibly months and allow the enemy to take out the whole country.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Hi...nd/nuclear.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/mctl98-2/p2sec06.pdf#search='effects%20of%20nuclear%20deton ations%20in%20space'
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/pdfs/Effects.pdf
http://www.cndyorks.gn.apc.org/yspac...explosions.htm