In shootings, is the gun to blame?

[Josie]

Nonsense. The Second Amendment reads people have the right to "keep and bear arms" and your literal arms are what you need to carry something.

If fists kill more people than guns, why do people use guns instead of their bare hands for self defense?

Fists have never killed anyone ever in the history of the world -- remember?

 

[tshade]

As in many things that deal with a freedom in America = common sense applies. Common sense gun laws, regulations. Obviously we don't want missle launchers sold at walmart, etc, etc..........and other common sense laws dealing with schools, age groups, mental health, criminal history, etc....

 

[aociswundumho]

Obviously we don't want missle launchers sold at walmart, etc, etc..........

But it's ok for the state to have them, and the state has murdered an order of magnitude more people than the private sector has. If you want them banned, then ban them from everyone, including government agents.

and other common sense laws dealing with schools, age groups, mental health, criminal history, etc....

One could make a good argument that a desire for political power is a sign of mental illness. How come it isn't "common sense" to disarm the state, given its track record?

 

[tshade]

But it's ok for the state to have them, and the state has murdered an order of magnitude more people than the private sector has. If you want them banned, then ban them from everyone, including government agents.

Murdered more???????? Explain. For now I disagree.

One could make a good argument that a desire for political power is a sign of mental illness. How come it isn't "common sense" to disarm the state, given its track record?

Our freedoms have been due to the state protecting them, as per the Declaration"s explanation.

 

[aociswundumho]

Murdered more???????? Explain. For now I disagree.

Pro-gunners are wrong. Some gun restrictions are absolutely necessary!

Doesn't matter what pro-gunners say, sometimes there is very strong case for gun restrictions or preferably an outright ban, and I will outline such a case below, although, unfortunately, these restrictions will most likely be impossible to implement given the criminal nature of those who should...

debatepolitics.com

Our freedoms have been due to the state protecting them, as per the Declaration"s explanation.

So you support a document written by a slave owner? Not much virtue being signaled there.

The state is the biggest violator of human rights that has ever existed, and that is not a controversial claim.

 

[Rich2018]

Here ya go. Why would you blame an inanimate object?

Guns don't kill people...people kill people
Yeah but I think guns kinda help.

 

[tshade]

Pro-gunners are wrong. Some gun restrictions are absolutely necessary!

Doesn't matter what pro-gunners say, sometimes there is very strong case for gun restrictions or preferably an outright ban, and I will outline such a case below, although, unfortunately, these restrictions will most likely be impossible to implement given the criminal nature of those who should...

debatepolitics.com

Well----yeah, I mean like, certain kinds of governments, sure..........duh.....

So you support a document written by a slave owner? Not much virtue being signaled there.

The Declar. was approved and signed by men with minds that are to your mind as yours are to the beasts of the jungle. Get serious. History must be taken in perspective of the times things were done.

The state is the biggest violator of human rights that has ever existed, and that is not a controversial claim.

Some governments, yes. But try to have a civilization without a government protecting your rights---then you'll find out........no contest here....

 

[TurtleDude]

Mary is technically correct, but the type of gun matters. If the gun is an automatic rifle, it is to blame when too many bullets come out in quick succession and a stray bullet kills someone despite the shooter not intending to do that.

no American has ever been murdered in the USA with a legally owned automatic rifle

 

[TurtleDude]

Of course they can't. It is always the shooter's fault that he used a gun and bullets came out of it.

But those automatic rifles that do not require a trigger . . .

It is hard to take this sort of nonsense seriously. What seething idiocy.

 

[Rucker61]

It is hard to take this sort of nonsense seriously. What seething idiocy.

That's what makes them automatic - that and the AI and Bluetooth.

 

[calamity]

Here ya go. Why would you blame an inanimate object?

Easy access to a gun is to blame. Maybe you should have reworded your silly bait thread.

 

[Goshin]

Without the gun there would be no shooting.

Bows. Crossbows. High powered slingshots.

We were killing each other when the most high-tech assault weapons were the rock and the pointy stick.

 

[TurtleDude]

Bows. Crossbows. High powered slingshots.

We were killing each other when the most high-tech assault weapons were the rock and the pointy stick.

arrows have killed more humans than all the bullets and bombs ever made

 

[calamity]

arrows have killed more humans than all the bullets and bombs ever made

What?

Now, that is some bullshit. That's for sure.

Bullets and bombs killed 100 million people in the 20th century alone.

 

[Goshin]

Of course they can't. It is always the shooter's fault that he used a gun and bullets came out of it.

But those automatic rifles that do not require a trigger . . .

I don't mean to be mean. Honestly I don't.

But please, get educated on guns a little before you start this sort of thing. You don't even seem to know how to express what you're trying to discuss. I have a very informative, non partisan PSA in the Gun Control forum that explains the difference between semi-auto and full-auto, I think it is still a sticky thread. Or was the last time I looked.

 

[Goshin]

Nonsense. The Second Amendment reads people have the right to "keep and bear arms" and your literal arms are what you need to carry something.

If fists kill more people than guns, why do people use guns instead of their bare hands for self defense?

The single most common murder weapon in the US is the handgun. However, knives, hammers, clubs, fists and feet kill more people than "assault rifles" (actually all rifles of any type) every year. FBI stat, look it up.

 

[LostInSeattle]

Here ya go. Why would you blame an inanimate object?

Josie, I respect a lot of what you write, but this is a stupid thread, at least the way you have presented it.

The single most common murder weapon in the US is the handgun. However, knives, hammers, clubs, fists and feet kill more people than "assault rifles" (actually all rifles of any type) every year. FBI stat, look it up.

What is missing in this graphic is the number of assailants. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but I'd wager a lot of money that the number of hammer murderers is pretty close to the number of people killed with hammers, whereas the number of murderers using "assault rifles" is relatively few compared to the number of people they kill.

In other words, these types of weapons make an individual assailant extremely deadly to large numbers of people. Hammers do not.

 

[Josie]

Josie, I respect a lot of what you write, but this is a stupid thread, at least the way you have presented it.

Why? @MaryP is the one who said it.

 

[iguanaman]

It goes back to the nature/nurture debate which the left lost a long time ago. In short, the political left believes your environment, and not you, is responsible for what you are. Hence capitalism makes people greedy, socialism makes people selfless, and putting a gun in your hand makes you want to shoot other people.

Putting a gun in someone's hand makes killing someone a trigger pull away. It is a killing machine.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Really? A gun can get up on it's own and shoot bullets?

no

we normally need soldiers to shot them.

 

[LostInSeattle]

It goes back to the nature/nurture debate which the left lost a long time ago. In short, the political left believes your environment, and not you, is responsible for what you are. Hence capitalism makes people greedy, socialism makes people selfless, and putting a gun in your hand makes you want to shoot other people.

That is such a load of crap. Both genes and environment shape who people are. The same is true of all living organisms to some degree or another. And I have never heard anyone say any of the things you claim regarding capitalism, socialis or guns. And neither, I suspect, have you. For ****'s sake, get real.

 

[Rucker61]

Josie, I respect a lot of what you write, but this is a stupid thread, at least the way you have presented it.



What is missing in this graphic is the number of assailants. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but I'd wager a lot of money that the number of hammer murderers is pretty close to the number of people killed with hammers, whereas the number of murderers using "assault rifles" is relatively few compared to the number of people they kill.

In other words, these types of weapons make an individual assailant extremely deadly to large numbers of people. Hammers do not.

Yet they are used much more commonly, which needs to be accounted for, too. That's why AR-15s used in mass murders have accounted for about 300 deaths in 55 years but blunt instruments like hammers account for 1,600 deaths per year.

 

[LostInSeattle]

Yet they are used much more commonly, which needs to be accounted for, too. That's why AR-15s used in mass murders have accounted for about 300 deaths in 55 years but blunt instruments like hammers account for 1,600 deaths per year.

I don't get your point. You compare one model of firearm against all blunt instruments? Of what merit is that?

 

[LostInSeattle]

Why? @MaryP is the one who said it.

I understand that you were transferring a conversation from somewhere else, but for all us newcomers, a brief paragraph putting this into context would provide a much more productive jumping off point for dialogue.

Look, the title of the thread is "trolly"; it's vague, broad, and frankly stupid. Are you asking whether the prevalence of and relatively easy access to guns makes them more likely to be used to kill people? Are you asking whether the type of firearm has an impact on the frequency or body count of a mass shooting? Are you asking about any incident with a firearm?

I have no ****ing clue what you meant, and still don't two pages in. And Mary is nowhere to be found to shed light.

 

[Josie]

I understand that you were transferring a conversation from somewhere else, but for all us newcomers, a brief paragraph putting this into context would provide a much more productive jumping off point for dialogue.

Look, the title of the thread is "trolly"; it's vague, broad, and frankly stupid. Are you asking whether the prevalence of and relatively easy access to guns makes them more likely to be used to kill people? Are you asking whether type of firearm has an impact on the frequency or body count of a mass shooting? Are you asking about any incident with a firearm?

I have no ****ing clue what you meant, and still don't two pages in. And Mary is nowhere to be found to shed light.

I was asking Mary the question that she said she would talk about in another thread. The title is reflective of her comment which is why it's stupid.