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In-Depth Analysis on the Origins of Covid

There are plenty of scientists who think the pandemic started from a lab accident. I posted several links. They are mainstream news sources.
Even that evidence free assumption does not mean it was MADE in that lab does it?
 
The article doesn't ever posit that the virus was fashioned for weaponization

What it does present is that US agencies funded coronavirus research in a Wuhan lab, including gain of function research and the alteration of coronavirus genotypes, which escaped via accidental human contact. Not only is his theory well documented, his presentation is scientifically stronger than the bat theory that was trotted out early 2020.

It appears experts disagree.
 
Even that evidence free assumption does not mean it was MADE in that lab does it?

It is not evidence free. If you had read anything about it, you would know there is a lot of evidence. And the Wuhan lab was "improving" bat coronaviruses so they could infect humans. What a bizarre coincidence.
 
I told you I am not a conservative. And I never said it was a hoax. I don't understand why Democrats now days have blind faith in medical authorities.

You took the shot.
 
It is not evidence free. If you had read anything about it, you would know there is a lot of evidence. And the Wuhan lab was "improving" bat coronaviruses so they could infect humans. What a bizarre coincidence.
LOL If there was an accidental leak they will get the the bottom of it. It is not considered likely but they have not ruled it it yet. What it is not is a bioweapon or the purposeful release. Those have been ruled out.


On Tuesday, the World Health Organization released a joint report with Beijing on the origins of the pandemic following a four-week investigation in China. It concluded, among other things, that the lab leak hypothesis was "extremely unlikely."
But WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said he does not believe the team's assessment of the lab leak possibility was extensive enough.
"Although the team has concluded that a laboratory leak is the least likely hypothesis, this requires further investigation, potentially with additional missions involving specialist experts, which I am ready to deploy," he told WHO members, according to a written statement.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/31/9831...se-lab-takes-on-new-life-in-wake-of-who-repor
 
You took the shot.

That means I have blind faith in medical authorities? I don't have any faith in them at all. We are being intensely pressured to get vaccinated. We cannot visit our parents in foreign countries without a vaccine. I have to KEEP REPEATING the same things! No, actually I don't have to. I can ignore your dopey comments.
 
That means I have blind faith in medical authorities? I don't have any faith in them at all. We are being intensely pressured to get vaccinated. We cannot visit our parents in foreign countries without a vaccine. I have to KEEP REPEATING the same things! No, actually I don't have to. I can ignore your dopey comments.

I think what happened was you didn’t want to die of covid when a super safe vaccine was available, so you took the shot because that’s the rational thing to do when one has those beliefs.
 
Still waiting on the evidence.
Me too. Until we find direct evidence on either theory, we're left to wonder.

But as the US state department confirmed that workers in the Wuhan laboratory where novel coronavirus' were being created, and employees were sick with covid-like symptoms late in 2020, I'll probably discount China-issued explanations like bats, wet markets, and pangolins.
 
I think what happened was you didn’t want to die of covid when a super safe vaccine was available, so you took the shot because that’s the rational thing to do when one has those beliefs.

I have known all along I would not die of covid. I didn't even think I would catch it. After a year of not being very careful, I still didn't even catch it. I have absolutely no fear of covid. I never had any fear at all of the flu. I take care of my health and I trust my immune system.
 
It is not evidence free. If you had read anything about it, you would know there is a lot of evidence. And the Wuhan lab was "improving" bat coronaviruses so they could infect humans. What a bizarre coincidence.
Here's a excellent article on the evolution of the Covid virus. It might help you understand why science is so sure it was not lab made. Doing this stuff is not for novices either.

The scientists drew upon their experience of tracing the evolutionary origins of HIV and other viruses.
They scoured the genomes of more than 130,000 samples of SARS-CoV-2 collected between December 2019 and October 2020 for signs of evolutionary adaptations. They then contrasted these with the molecular signatures of adaptation in 69 related bat viruses.
Their analysis suggests that most of the adaptations that allowed the SARS-CoV-2 lineage to jump from bats to humans and spread across the world arose in bats many years ago.
They note that many sarbecoviruses — which are the group of bat and pangolin viruses to which SARS-CoV-2 belongs — are “generalists.” This means that they have adaptations that allow them to skip from one mammalian host species to another relatively easily.

The research also revealed that there were few evolutionarily significant changes in the genome of the virus during the first 11 months of the pandemic. This implies that the virus was already well adapted to its new host and could “hit the ground running.”
“What has been so surprising is just how transmissible SARS-CoV-2 has been from the outset,” says co-lead author Prof. Sergei Pond from the Institute for Genomics and Evolutionary Medicine at Temple University in Philadelphia, PA.
“Usually viruses that jump to a new host species take some time to acquire adaptations to be as capable as SARS-CoV-2 at spreading, and most never make it past that stage, resulting in dead-end spillovers or localized outbreaks,” he adds.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...-cov-2-study#Signs-of-evolutionary-adaptation
 
Me too. Until we find direct evidence on either theory, we're left to wonder.

But as the US state department confirmed that workers in the Wuhan laboratory where novel coronavirus' were being created, and employees were sick with covid-like symptoms late in 2020, I'll probably discount China-issued explanations like bats, wet markets, and pangolins.

Yes, we have absolutely no reason to believe the Chinese government's denials.
 
I have known all along I would not die of covid. I didn't even think I would catch it. After a year of not being very careful, I still didn't even catch it. I have absolutely no fear of covid. I never had any fear at all of the flu. I take care of my health and I trust my immune system.
Do not trust your immune system with covid. It's got some real nasty tricks to mess with it. Instead of invading your entire lung at once like most infections it sets up "camps" in multiple areas where it protects itself while overheating your immune system for weeks. Don't try it.
 
Do not trust your immune system with covid. It's got some real nasty tricks to mess with it. Instead of invading your entire lung at once like most infections it sets up "camps" in multiple areas where it protects itself while overheating your immune system for weeks. Don't try it.

Most people never get covid. Of those who get it, most don't get a serious case or die. You are just repeating mainstream news hysteria.
 
Most people never get covid. Of those who get it, most don't get a serious case or die. You are just repeating mainstream news hysteria.
The number is 158 million infections and over 3.3 million dead so far worldwide. That is a lot of sick people who wish they had what you are rejecting.
 
Most people never get covid. Of those who get it, most don't get a serious case or die. You are just repeating mainstream news hysteria.
Most people don't have car accidents. Of those who do, most don't die. Don't wear seat belts.
 
Most people don't have car accidents. Of those who do, most don't die. Don't wear seat belts.

Seat belts don't damage our health. There is no risk-benefit trade-off with seat belts, they are pretty much safe. Experimental vaccines, on the other hand, have unknown and unforeseeable risks.
 
A few major issues with the arguments presented

1. The virus is likely to have been around much earlier than September 2019, antibodies have been detected in Italy as early as Sept 2019 in blood samples of Cancer patients


2. His statement that the virus has not mutated very much, as I understand it, the virus has mutated quite a bit, with a lot of different strains some far more infectious than others

The author had a goal in mind when writing the article and included facts that would support it.

Distance does not matter when populations are mobile. A bat population 1500 km away means that the virus could not be first detected in a city 1500 km away? Do not people travel, do not truckers move animals, food from one place to another, a person with an infection to another
On the mutations, he compared it to other viruses and researchers within months could find the predecessor varieties, and more than a dozen clear mutations that over time finally made them highly infectious to humans. For COVID, the first known appearance was HIGHLY infectious to humans, ideally suited to infect humans, in fact.

The problem for the distant place theory is there is no known outbreak in those distant places. It emerged in Wuhan. If it was a trucker, you'd expect to see it infecting family, or coworkers, and others with whom he interacted closely, perhaps on the journey, and there's no evidence of that, according to the OP.

What most troubles me is that the Chinese have acted exactly as you'd expect if it was a lab outbreak. They've been very non-transparent at every step. Investigators who have gone to China have simply NOT had the kind of openness we'd expect if the Chinese believed in a natural outbreak. The opposite is apparently true - they've been stonewalled, most importantly including at the Wuhan Institute. It's possible that's just the Chinese being secretive, but the problem with hiding a bunch of stuff and stonewalling is it's a natural and very logical conclusion that the point of it is to hide the source.
 
Try the highlighted portion. Followed by dismissing others who state it was a natural mutation.
He didn't dismiss any theory. His basic premise is we're 15 months after it first emerged and there is exactly zero evidence of a 'natural' mutation. We don't know the original source, or the presumed intermediary that then infected humans. No bats have been found with the virus, or intermediaries. He doesn't dismiss it as not possible, but simply notes that if you want to claim it evolved naturally, right now you cannot point to the mechanism. A year ago, that might not be surprising, but 15 months later given the huge effort to locate those hosts, a but less credible.
And?

We don't have a shred of evidence for the escape from the Lab theory.

We do know that the director of the NIAID (a subgroup of the NIH) did fund gain of function experiments in a Wuhan lab.

So what?

What does this prove?

Correlation =/= Causation

Post hoc ergo propter hoc
We in fact don't have a shred of evidence for ANY theory. But the problem is when you have no evidence for natural mutation, it's hard to then conclude, as if it's demonstrated, that the source was natural. That's especially true when the lab-escape theory cannot be ruled out, and especially when China is so unwilling to let outside researchers examine that lab.

The lab escape theory works with what we know - a first emergence in Wuhan of an almost perfectly adapted virus to infect humans, with engineering that is quite elegant in fact to infect humans. That's what you'd expect from a lab. Doesn't 'prove' it came from a lab, but it looks an awful like a what an engineered virus that did escape would look like.
 
Me too. Until we find direct evidence on either theory, we're left to wonder.

But as the US state department confirmed that workers in the Wuhan laboratory where novel coronavirus' were being created, and employees were sick with covid-like symptoms late in 2020, I'll probably discount China-issued explanations like bats, wet markets, and pangolins.

Wow, COVID like symptoms.... Which just had to have come from inside the lab vs. the city where the Pandemic started.... A lab with strict handling and contamination control....

PROOF POSITIVE.


:ROFLMAO:
 
On the mutations, he compared it to other viruses and researchers within months could find the predecessor varieties, and more than a dozen clear mutations that over time finally made them highly infectious to humans. For COVID, the first known appearance was HIGHLY infectious to humans, ideally suited to infect humans, in fact.

The problem for the distant place theory is there is no known outbreak in those distant places. It emerged in Wuhan. If it was a trucker, you'd expect to see it infecting family, or coworkers, and others with whom he interacted closely, perhaps on the journey, and there's no evidence of that, according to the OP.

What most troubles me is that the Chinese have acted exactly as you'd expect if it was a lab outbreak. They've been very non-transparent at every step. Investigators who have gone to China have simply NOT had the kind of openness we'd expect if the Chinese believed in a natural outbreak. The opposite is apparently true - they've been stonewalled, most importantly including at the Wuhan Institute. It's possible that's just the Chinese being secretive, but the problem with hiding a bunch of stuff and stonewalling is it's a natural and very logical conclusion that the point of it is to hide the source.

Except that Italy had Covid 19 in Sep 2019, but did not discover the first case until feb or March 2020. Six months after the first cases actually occurred in Italy. It can be easily projected that the first infection took thousands of miles from Wuhan, where it mutated into the first virulent strain and that the first or original strain was never detected. It is entirely possible that had not the doctor who specializes in Corona viruses not been in Wuhan that the actual virus might not gave been detected for a few months later
 
I have known all along I would not die of covid. I didn't even think I would catch it. After a year of not being very careful, I still didn't even catch it. I have absolutely no fear of covid. I never had any fear at all of the flu. I take care of my health and I trust my immune system.

..:and then you got the shot.
 
It was transported to the lab from the bat caves 5 hours south of Wuhan however it did not escape in transit. It is far more likely that it escaped after it was altered in the lab to become more transmissible.

Many legit sources can verify this.
Name one of your "legit" sources.
 
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