If your really paying attention

[ChrisL]

I agree..we dont need new taxs...we need for the bush tax cuts to expire and go back to where we were when we were PROSPERING then make adjustments to spending cuts and make "REASONABLE" changes and entitlement reform.

I'd like to see some BIGGER changes. Some tax code reformations.

 

[lpast]

I'd like to see some BIGGER changes. Some tax code reformations.

Me too, but all ive seen so far with the flat tax and any variation is THE RICH PAY FAR LESS and everyone else pays far more...nah...

 

[Rainman05]

I dont think so...I think your statment is all bluster and bs you obviously dont pay any attention to the real events as they are happening aro und (around) you

Perhaps I am the ignorant and you are correct. Perhaps Maggie and the others are wrong and you are correct. But the way you present the issue doesn't make you seem right, it makes you seem... something else. And people have correctly pointed out the fallacy in your reasoning.

That being said.

You said that the republicans have been sent a message by the public. What message is that? The only message I noticed that was loud and clear in the election is that the electoral college is rubbish and makes a 3mil popular vote lead count as a 120 electoral votes lead... which is just absurd. The other, less loud but equally as clear message sent is that 3rd party voters don't count. And a lot of other messages about the process.

The messages the political parties have received were this:

a) Obama did a **** job, that is why he got less popular votes now than he did last time around, but he did get more electoral votes because the campaign was better organized.
b) If Romney... flip flop Romney could get so close to Obama, the republicans will perceive this that they have done SOMETHING wrong because they recovered GROUND from the previous election. And they will keep on doing this. The dems will see that they too need to do something because they are LOSING ground to the republicans.

 

[lpast]

Perhaps I am the ignorant and you are correct. Perhaps Maggie and the others are wrong and you are correct. But the way you present the issue doesn't make you seem right, it makes you seem... something else. And people have correctly pointed out the fallacy in your reasoning.

That being said.

You said that the republicans have been sent a message by the public. What message is that? The only message I noticed that was loud and clear in the election is that the electoral college is rubbish and makes a 3mil popular vote lead count as a 120 electoral votes lead... which is just absurd. The other, less loud but equally as clear message sent is that 3rd party voters don't count. And a lot of other messages about the process.

The messages the political parties have received were this:

a) Obama did a **** job, that is why he got less popular votes now than he did last time around, but he did get more electoral votes because the campaign was better organized.
b) If Romney... flip flop Romney could get so close to Obama, the republicans will perceive this that they have done SOMETHING wrong because they recovered GROUND from the previous election. And they will keep on doing this. The dems will see that they too need to do something because they are LOSING ground to the republicans.

Since you started YOUR exchange with me trying to be cute and insulting...it is now too late for us to engage in any exchange. I dont have any inclination to dispute anything "you've" YOU HAVE...said...just run your yapper any way you choose an I will take a pass...byebye YOUR a real treat

 

[ChrisL]

Me too, but all ive seen so far with the flat tax and any variation is THE RICH PAY FAR LESS and everyone else pays far more...nah...

The flat tax and the fair tax are not the only options you know. There are a LOT of ideas out there. Here is another one, not that I agree with the whole thing, but just to give an idea.

Save Jobs, Reform The Tax Code - Forbes.com

 

[Rainman05]

Since you started YOUR exchange with me trying to be cute and insulting...it is now too late for us to engage in any exchange. I dont have any inclination to dispute anything "you've" YOU HAVE...said...just run your yapper any way you choose an I will take a pass...byebye YOUR (it should be: you're -> you are) a real treat

I am so sorry for this, but I JUST CAN'T HELP MYSELF!

Thank you.

 

[Incredulous]

Me too, but all ive seen so far with the flat tax and any variation is THE RICH PAY FAR LESS and everyone else pays far more...nah...

Can you elaborate on how the rich pay far less and the everyone else pays far more?

 

[lpast]

The flat tax and the fair tax are not the only options you know. There are a LOT of ideas out there. Here is another one, not that I agree with the whole thing, but just to give an idea.

Save Jobs, Reform The Tax Code - Forbes.com

Im aware of that one Chris, Im also aware there are many variations out there...I can only rely on those that have been somewhat formally approached as viable...and I have disagreed with all of them so far. If a plan is outlined that I believe is fair to all, clear an not diluted and ambiguous...I would very well support it.

 

[Deuce]

I take issue with the bull**** notion that Republicans have been somehow screwing the middle class. Just because their stance has been to reform the tax code by eliminating some of the maze that is our tax code rather than raise tax brackets on the rich, does not mean they're screwing anyone.

Now. That most definitely is the message Democrats were successful in putting out there; but that doesn't make it true. Our problem is our spending. Until both parties agree to get that under control, no one is safe.

And if all of Obama's talk of willing to be bipartisan means something? We'll soon know. Not too long ago, the way of government was to send reps of both parties into a room and tell them not to come out until they had something both sides could support. That hasn't happened in a long time. The Republicans haven't even been invited into the room. We'll see.

Need to introduce yourself to a concept called gerrymandering. It's the reason the GOP has the house now instead of the Democrats. If you used the previous set of districts, there would be a Democrat majority in the house! (not that this is somehow the "right" set of districts. the previous set were just gerrymandered in favor of team blue)

You know how people are talking about districts in Philiadelphia that had zero Romney votes? Republicans literally created that scenario on purpose. Cram every Democrat into a few districts, you get to take the rest of the state.

And complete horse**** on the GOP being left out. They've been offered deal after deal after deal over the last four years.

Can you elaborate on how the rich pay far less and the everyone else pays far more?

Effective tax rates tend to drop at the extreme upper ends of the income range as people get more and more of their income from capital gains, which is taxed at a substantially lower rate. It's how a guy like Mitt Romney can have an effective tax rate of ~14% while someone making far less pays a higher percentage.

 

[lpast]

Can you elaborate on how the rich pay far less and the everyone else pays far more?

Simple not in dollars...in percentages, for example romney paid less adusted tax percentage than I did on both of the tax returns he cherry picked to show us..and he made hundreds of millions more than me.

If I make a hundred million and pay 1% and you make 140,000 and pay 10% who paid more ? who has a higher financial pain level.
This preposterous notion that the people who make all the money, thats right 400 americans make and have more than almost 200,000,000 americans...that they PAY SO MUCH MORE...no matter what percentage they pay after they HIDE IT ALL and fanagle the loopholes is GARBAGE.

If you have a 1000.00 and give me 1.00 and I have 2.00 and give you a 1.00 I gave you half of everything I have you gave me nothing

 

[wolfman24]

If the current trend I have been seeing on the news and hearing about within the REP is genuine I think it is a great start. Just has to gain momentum

 

[gavinfielder]

The republican constituency has a message being sent to them, that message is we have to change. Republican pundits and leadership alike are sending the message, compromise is a MUST and its on the way and the acknowledgement that their hardline culture war has been lost with the re election of obama.
Boehner sent the first volley, then many named pundits have vocally and in columns have been sending the message...the latest high profile to indicate the failure and the needed change is Paul Ryan, I just listened to an entire interview with him and his entire demeanor and agenda has appeared to miraculously changed. He said emphatically the divided govt of the last two years has not worked for the american people...and we have to make it work now. Translated, that means the obstructionism from the house far right that I was a part of got our republican ass' kicked last tues. He also stated and this is the BIG ONE...our party has to be more responsive of ALL americans....WOW..thats a huge statement. Do you mean Paulie you wont try to screw the middleclass and give it to the rich again this time ? that didnt work out to well for you...Ok I had to stick a bit sarcasm and gloat in there

HOPEFULLY, this will start an era of at least some bipartisan cooporation so some of this dmg can be healed and this country can get rolling. Also Hopefully this election will show that you cant just "BUY" and LIE to the american people and win. You have to have winnable positions that make sense and that doesnt single out most of the country to benefit just a few.

Lets get american working again...after all in the very end after all the bull**** is behind us...WERE ALL AMERICANS and this country BELONGS TO ALL OF US......GOD BLESS YOU AMERICA...theres been alot of blood spilled for you...stand tall

I watched those comments of Boehner's as well, I thought it boded well. I would love to see the Republican party become more moderate and open. It's the only way they're going to be a part of the national conversation past 2016.

But then again, if it's a third party in their place, either, all's well that ends well.

 

[lpast]

I watched those comments of Boehner's as well, I thought it boded well. I would love to see the Republican party become more moderate and open. It's the only way they're going to be a part of the national conversation past 2016.

But then again, if it's a third party in their place, either, all's well that ends well.

If they go back to the what they were before this NO COMPROMISE, NO MORE RINOS...NO TAX EVER..stuff and the culture war they waged...I will have no problem voting republican again...I will never be a registered anything again and I will always be a swing voter for the person I decide is the best for the job..im done with political party affiliations.
I just wish Ron Paul wasnt as nuts as he is and didnt go as far as he does...hes got alot of great ideas...that he just takes to the extreme and turns me off...like legalizing all drugs and basically gutting defense...and other things...libertarian is not a viable option for me

 

[gavinfielder]

If they go back to the what they were before this NO COMPROMISE, NO MORE RINOS...NO TAX EVER..stuff and the culture war they waged...I will have no problem voting republican again...I will never be a registered anything again and I will always be a swing voter for the person I decide is the best for the job..im done with political party affiliations.
I just wish Ron Paul wasnt as nuts as he is and didnt go as far as he does...hes got alot of great ideas...that he just takes to the extreme and turns me off...like legalizing all drugs and basically gutting defense...and other things...libertarian is not a viable option for me

Libertarianism is flawed from the start, they don't know history or economic theory beyond their own partisan bias.

But that doesn't matter. What matters is having two real parties that disagree with each other intellectually so that they can check each other.

 

[lpast]

Libertarianism is flawed from the start, they don't know history or economic theory beyond their own partisan bias.

But that doesn't matter. What matters is having two real parties that disagree with each other intellectually so that they can check each other.

I dont have much hope for that...but lets hope anyway

 

[gavinfielder]

Actually, before it goes too far, I'd like to come back and say that a Libertarian party in congress would be more useful than the Republican party in congress. Of all the arguments that matter, Libertarians have one that makes sense in some ways. While giving them a country to run would destroy the country within 50 years, having them in counterpoint to the more liberal voices would help to champion the power of the private sector, which, as a moderate, I agree with. The private sector is spectacular at a lot of things. I don't think that any democrats would challenge that, which makes them moderate to begin with, but if they were, I'd rather have the Libertarian party to rebutt them rather than either the Republicans, who don't really make an intelligent argument on the issue, or nobody, which introduces risk of a one-party system and subsequent failure due to overdependence on ideology rather than facts.

 

[KevinKohler]

Why just two? Is that really our options? Coke or Pepsi? What about Foxxon Park?


Just apples and oranges? What if I like pinneaple?

Would it freaking KILL us to give credence to more than just two parties? Our would american brains EXPLODE due to overload?

 

[CalGun]

So you are saying the conservative view doesn't sit well with you and due to the election the Republican Party that champions that view must changet its views to suit you. I prefer to see the Congress say "screw you" Obama we got elected too and its our way or the highway.

The republican constituency has a message being sent to them, that message is we have to change. Republican pundits and leadership alike are sending the message, compromise is a MUST and its on the way and the acknowledgement that their hardline culture war has been lost with the re election of obama.
Boehner sent the first volley, then many named pundits have vocally and in columns have been sending the message...the latest high profile to indicate the failure and the needed change is Paul Ryan, I just listened to an entire interview with him and his entire demeanor and agenda has appeared to miraculously changed. He said emphatically the divided govt of the last two years has not worked for the american people...and we have to make it work now. Translated, that means the obstructionism from the house far right that I was a part of got our republican ass' kicked last tues. He also stated and this is the BIG ONE...our party has to be more responsive of ALL americans....WOW..thats a huge statement. Do you mean Paulie you wont try to screw the middleclass and give it to the rich again this time ? that didnt work out to well for you...Ok I had to stick a bit sarcasm and gloat in there

HOPEFULLY, this will start an era of at least some bipartisan cooporation so some of this dmg can be healed and this country can get rolling. Also Hopefully this election will show that you cant just "BUY" and LIE to the american people and win. You have to have winnable positions that make sense and that doesnt single out most of the country to benefit just a few.

Lets get american working again...after all in the very end after all the bull**** is behind us...WERE ALL AMERICANS and this country BELONGS TO ALL OF US......GOD BLESS YOU AMERICA...theres been alot of blood spilled for you...stand tall

 

[gavinfielder]

Why just two? Is that really our options? Coke or Pepsi? What about Foxxon Park?


Just apples and oranges? What if I like pinneaple?

Would it freaking KILL us to give credence to more than just two parties? Our would american brains EXPLODE due to overload?

No. The only important thing is to have more than one.

 

[KevinKohler]

So you are saying the conservative view doesn't sit well with you and due to the election the Republican Party that champions that view must changet its views to suit you. I prefer to see the Congress say "screw you" Obama we got elected too and its our way or the highway.

Very petulant.

 

[KevinKohler]

No. The only important thing is to have more than one.

But it seems like everyone is so fixated on just having TWO. To me, two is not a choice. It's like forcing a person to choose between a pile of crap, or a turkey sandwitch. That's not really a choice, is it? Why not offer us the chance to choose between a pile of crap, a turkey sammitch, roast beef, or chicken? NOW we got options.

 

[CalGun]

Why thank you! I just find its odd that if over 200 individuals that got elected must some how
modify their views to the one who they disagree with - only because those who support that
one say so.

I'd like to see the Republican Congress grow a pair and send it over the cliff if they don't
get their way. Its' time Obama read the Constitution and "WHO" is in charge.

Very petulant.

 

[KevinKohler]

Way I see it, the only way to make something like a more than two party system, is to get rid of our current campaign laws, and institute a general fund for each level of office campaigned for, and have anyone who wants donate to that FUND, but not to individuals, and then those funds get divided equally among all running. Let people be elected on the merits of their ability, rather than the depth of their depravity...er....wallets.

 

[KevinKohler]

Why thank you! I just find its odd that if over 200 individuals that got elected must some how
modify their views to the one who they disagree with - only because those who support that
one say so.

I'd like to see the Republican Congress grow a pair and send it over the cliff if they don't
get their way. Its' time Obama read the Constitution and "WHO" is in charge.

Yeah, except that there are also a bunch of elected reps who AGREE with Obama. My way or the highway is a 5 year old debate tactic. This country was founded on compromise. Because it was founded by 5 year olds. And hopefully, should not be run by such.

 

[MaggieD]

Your own post proves much of what Ive argued about since Ive gotten on this forum Maggie

It argues mine better. FIX THE DAMNED TAX CODE!!!

With those particular jamokes? You can raise taxes to 99%, and they STILL won't pay any taxes if they structure things right. That's.my.point.