If you are tired of the myths and superstitions of religion......

[Daisy]

Nothing you’re saying makes sense.

Read the few links I shared about how Christians are supposed to teach their children about Hell, and explain how you can honestly expect anyone to believe your claim that religious people (citing their sacred texts) don’t regard hell as a place of eternal torture and tell their kids about it.

Read the scriptures I cited...what do they say about the condition of the dead? I'm telling you the doctrine about hellfire is a lie...

 

[Neomalthusian]

Read the scriptures I cited...what do they say about the condition of the dead? I'm telling you the doctrine about hellfire is a lie...

So you’re saying the New Testament lies about hell over 160 times. Why read a book so full of lies?

 

[Daisy]

So you’re saying the New Testament lies about hell over 160 times. Why read a book so full of lies?

There are no lies in the Bible...there are symbolic illustrations, such as the rich man and Lazarus, though...in Bible times the most thorough means of destruction in use was fire...Jesus at times used the term “fire” in an illustrative way to denote the complete destruction of the wicked...on one occasion Jesus warned his disciples against letting their hand, foot, or eye stumble them so that they would be pitched into Gehenna...Pslam 27:13 gives the following historical information about the valley of Gehenna or Gehinnom...it was a dump site outside Jerusalem that was used to burn garbage...from the context and in the light of other scriptures on the condition of the dead, such as the ones I already gave you, it is evident that this is not a literal fire but signifies everlasting destruction...

“And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom.”

 

[Buckeyes85]

So you’re saying the New Testament lies about hell over 160 times. Why read a book so full of lies?

You've got it all wrong. About half the time the bible must be taken word for word, literally true without question.
The other half the time you must appreciate it involves metaphors, allegory and mythology. Only true bible scholars are able to discern when it is one or the other. But fear not, they will tell you.

 

[calamity]

So you’re saying the New Testament lies about hell over 160 times. Why read a book so full of lies?

That’s consistent with what she said. She said hell is a pagan myth.

It makes sense that the N/T goes all in on hell. After all, the N/T is paganized.

 

[Logician Man]

That’s consistent with what she said. She said hell is a pagan myth.

It makes sense that the N/T goes all in on hell. After all, the N/T is paganized.

How cold is it out your way? Tonight, we are expected to get down to 23 degrees below zero, a new record. Today's high -3 degrees. Dinner? Homemade hot tamales we get from a Mexican lady we've known for decades, smothered in her special hot sauce, and topped off with black olives, shredded lettuce, 4 blend shredded cheese, and sliced tomatoes. Life is good with is 'white privilege.' lol

 

[southwest88]

Hell, Stalin and the atheists didn't bother with a 'just/ war or a 'just' anything else. These monsters took what they wanted and killed whomever they wanted. Your excusing of Stalin for this reason is nauseating.

The RCC suppressed heresies & heretics & killed often enough that it felt a need to institutionalize the reasoning - & thus Just war theory. Especially so, when Jesus Himself - TMK - never killed anyone, although He presumably had the power to do so, & could have presumably easily ended history in His time on Earth, if He had willed it.

Was Stalin emblematic of atheism? Did Stalin invent atheism? Did the Communist Party invent atheism? You have causality all wrong here - the ancient Greek philosophers came up with elements of atheism before Christ was born. & atheist used to mean someone who didn't believe in your god(s), not someone who was without religious belief @ all. Your actual beef is with Greek philosophers, long dead; but very much alive, in the world of ideas.

I'm not excusing Stalin for anything - he was a limited man, but the only thing he seemed to crave was power. His notion of what was best for the USSR was seriously flawed, in my opinion. But we grew up in very different worlds, the US has never had to fight off serious attempts @ armed invasion, while Russia had to fight off Napoleon, & the USSR had to fight a civil war, armed intervention by the WWI allies in the USSR, then the Nazi invasion of WWII, & they had some border clashes with Communist China. Given that history, Stalin's (& Russian) near- maniacal concern about potential invasion is understandable.

If you're nauseous, you might want to see a doctor. Perhaps it's a symptom of something.

 

[calamity]

How cold is it out your way? Tonight, we are expected to get down to 23 degrees below zero, a new record. Today's high -3 degrees. Dinner? Homemade hot tamales we get from a Mexican lady we've known for decades, smothered in her special hot sauce, and topped off with black olives, shredded lettuce, 4 blend shredded cheese, and sliced tomatoes. Life is good with is 'white privilege.' lol

Tolerable, we are in the 20's right now. 15 inches of snow is expected over the next 24 hours though. That should be interesting.

 

[Logician Man]

The RCC suppressed heresies & heretics & killed often enough that it felt a need to institutionalize the reasoning - & thus Just war theory. Especially so, when Jesus Himself - TMK - never killed anyone, although He presumably had the power to do so, & could have presumably easily ended history in His time on Earth, if He had willed it.

Was Stalin emblematic of atheism? Did Stalin invent atheism? Did the Communist Party invent atheism? You have causality all wrong here - the ancient Greek philosophers came up with elements of atheism before Christ was born. & atheist used to mean someone who didn't believe in your god(s), not someone who was without religious belief @ all. Your actual beef is with Greek philosophers, long dead; but very much alive, in the world of ideas.

I'm not excusing Stalin for anything - he was a limited man, but the only thing he seemed to crave was power. His notion of what was best for the USSR was seriously flawed, in my opinion. But we grew up in very different worlds, the US has never had to fight off serious attempts @ armed invasion, while Russia had to fight off Napoleon, & the USSR had to fight a civil war, armed intervention by the WWI allies in the USSR, then the Nazi invasion of WWII, & they had some border clashes with Communist China. Given that history, Stalin's (& Russian) near- maniacal concern about potential invasion is understandable.

If you're nauseous, you might want to see a doctor. Perhaps it's a symptom of something.

Very well spoken...

 

[Questerr]

You don't know?

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will.

4. Meaning comes from the living world.

http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/t...,and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

That’s the opinion of a poster. None of those are “tenets” of atheism. In fact Buddhist Atheists would disagree with all four of them.

 

[Daisy]

That’s consistent with what she said. She said hell is a pagan myth.

It makes sense that the N/T goes all in on hell. After all, the N/T is paganized.

Not true, Cal...now, are there some who claim to believe what the Bible teaches and yet have adopted/incorporated pagan teachings into their beliefs...yes...

 

[bongsaway]

In other words, you got nothin'...got it...

Nope, I got rib eye steak.

 

[Daisy]

Nope, I got rib eye steak.

lol...I got ole meat loaf...

 

[bongsaway]

lol...I got ole meat loaf...

I have mashed potatoes tonight, want some with your loaf?

 

[Daisy]

I have mashed potatoes tonight, want some with your loaf?

Nah, I want the steak...

 

[TypicalRussian]

......then Humanism provides an alternative based in reason and logic.

“Humanist ideas

Most humanists would agree with the ideas below:

There are no supernatural beings.
The material universe is the only thing that exists.
Science provides the only reliable source of knowledge about this universe.
We only live this life - there is no after-life, and no such thing as reincarnation.
Human beings can live ethical and fulfilling lives without religious beliefs.
Human beings derive their moral code from the lessons of history, personal experience, and thought.”

BBC - Religions - Atheism: Humanism

This article looks at Humanism, which is a positive attitude to the world, centred on human experience, thought, and hopes.

www.bbc.co.uk

religion>humanism

 

[calamity]

religion>humanism

not really

 

[calamity]

Not true, Cal...now, are there some who claim to believe what the Bible teaches and yet have adopted/incorporated pagan teachings into their beliefs...yes...

IMO, most of the N/T is plagiarized collection of myths from other sources. Even the divinity of Jesus is myth that was thus derived.

Most Christ mythicists follow a threefold argument:[10] they question the reliability of the Pauline epistles and the Gospels to establish the historicity of Jesus; they note the lack of information on Jesus in non-Christian sources from the first and early second centuries; and they argue that early Christianity had syncretistic and mythological origins, as reflected in both the Pauline epistles and the gospels, with Jesus being a celestial being who was concretized in the Gospels. Therefore, Christianity was not founded on the shared memories of a man, but rather a shared mytheme.

Christ myth theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jesus in comparative mythology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Neomalthusian]

There are no lies in the Bible...there are symbolic illustrations,

This just seems way too convenient. How can it be worth anyone’s time to pore over scriptures when there is no reliable way to know what is supposed to be literal vs. what is supposed to be figurative/symbolic?

Why even regard texts like that as sacred, when reading them requires discernment between what’s real and what’s not that is so arbitrary that not even two devout Christians are likely to agree on the meaning?

 

[Daisy]

IMO, most of the N/T is plagiarized collection of myths from other sources. Even the divinity of Jesus is myth that was thus derived.

Christ myth theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jesus in comparative mythology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My view is the other way around...others cultures have taken the accounts in the Bible, to form their own explanations of what really happened in the Bible...that is why there are so many accounts that are similar...

 

[Daisy]

This just seems way too convenient. How can it be worth anyone’s time to pore over scriptures when there is no reliable way to know what is supposed to be literal vs. what is supposed to be figurative/symbolic?

Why even regard texts like that as sacred, when reading them requires discernment between what’s real and what’s not that is so arbitrary that not even two devout Christians are likely to agree on the meaning?

Well, for one thing, from my own experience, I can say there is no better way of life than to follow the principles/advice/counsel of the Bible...studying and using discernment also gives a person the insight of understanding why we are here, what God's original purpose is for mankind, and how that purpose will be fulfilled...in other words, knowing what the future holds, therefore giving a calmness/peace of mind...

 

[calamity]

My view is the other way around...others cultures have taken the accounts in the Bible, to form their own explanations of what really happened in the Bible...that is why there are so many accounts that are similar...

The bible is most certainly not the original of many tales. For example:

Some of the stories of the Pentateuch may derive from older sources. American science writer Homer W. Smith points out similarities between the Genesis creation narrative and that of the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh, such as the inclusion of the creation of the first man (Adam/Enkidu) in the Garden of Eden, a tree of knowledge, a tree of life, and a deceptive serpent.[6] Scholars such as Andrew R. George point out the similarity of the Genesis flood narrative and the Gilgamesh flood myth.[7][t] Similarities between the origin story of Moses and that of Sargon of Akkad were noted by psychoanalyst Otto Rank in 1909

Old Testament - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And, of course, there is Zoroastrianism, the true father of monotheism.

The obscure religion that shaped the West

It has influenced Star Wars and Game of Thrones – and characters as diverse as Voltaire, Nietzsche and Freddie Mercury have cited it as an inspiration. So what is Zoroastrianism?

www.bbc.com

Prior to Zarathustra, the ancient Persians worshipped the deities of the old Irano-Aryan religion, a counterpart to the Indo-Aryan religion that would come to be known as Hinduism. Zarathustra, however, condemned this practice, and preached that God alone – Ahura Mazda, the Lord of Wisdom – should be worshipped. In doing so, he not only contributed to the great divide between the Iranian and Indian Aryans, but arguably introduced to mankind its first monotheistic faith.
The idea of a single god was not the only essentially Zoroastrian tenet to find its way into other major faiths, most notably the ‘big three’: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The concepts of Heaven and Hell, Judgment Day and the final revelation of the world, and angels and demons all originated in the teachings of Zarathustra...Even the idea of Satan is a fundamentally Zoroastrian one

 

[Daisy]

The bible is most certainly not the original of many tales. For example:

Old Testament - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And, of course, there is Zoroastrianism, the true father of monotheism.

The obscure religion that shaped the West

It has influenced Star Wars and Game of Thrones – and characters as diverse as Voltaire, Nietzsche and Freddie Mercury have cited it as an inspiration. So what is Zoroastrianism?

www.bbc.com

And how long were the Bible's accounts passed down by word of mouth before they were written down? And how many actual writings were lost with time, due to decay, before the ones we know of today were actually preserved long enough for us to know what they said? There is no way of truly knowing which ones came 1st...

 

[calamity]

And how long were the Bible's accounts passed down by word of mouth before they were written down? And how many actual writings were lost with time, due to decay, before the ones we know of today were actually preserved long enough for us to know what they said? There is no way of truly knowing which ones came 1st...

I'm not wasting my time arguing over this. Fact remains, the Hebrews received their religion from the Persians. I'm sharing knowledge. You can deny it or accept it. I really don't care.

 

[Buckeyes85]

And how long were the Bible's accounts passed down by word of mouth before they were written down? And how many actual writings were lost with time, due to decay, before the ones we know of today were actually preserved long enough for us to know what they said? There is no way of truly knowing which ones came 1st...

I've been monitoring the discussion from the fringe and not sure I understand what point you are trying to make.