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If Trump is not behaving as an authoritarian

jmotivator said:
What "stuff"?



There's been four King Georges... but Reductio ad Hitlerum wasn't a recognized fallacy until 1953, a year after the death of the last King George, so probably not...
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Well, we can start with Habeus Corpus. This was covered in the Constitution because it was common for tyrants to just raffle up critics and lock them in a dungeon somewhere.

The Constitution is a tyrant defense system. It forbids all of the tools of tyranny they knew about at the time.

Free speech because tyrants control what can and can’t be said about them and their regimes.

Freedom of religion due to discrimination and abuse at the hands of religious tyrants.

And the Second amendment because one of the first things tyrants do is take weapons away from the subjects.

Those Founders would absolutely positively not approve of how trump is doing things. If he can do it to anybody he can do it to…anybody.
 
Gardener said:
So true.

You leftists did not complain one bit when other leftists took away your civil rights because it was leftists doing so.
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Uh, no, it was due to the fact that there was a pandemic happening that was killing millions of people around the world. You know many conservatives participated without constantly shitting their diapers too, right?

You really ought to stop guessing what people think or believe... you're ****ing awful at it. 🤭
 
StillBallin75 said:
It's not a fallacy if it's ****ing true.

Hell, during Obama's 8 years I saw right-wingers call him Hitler, dictator, tyrant for things that are 100 times tamer than things Trump does on a daily ****ing basis.

Meanwhile, legal scholars are saying fascism, historians are saying this is ****ing fascism, YOU would be saying this is fascism if someone else did it, but here you are with just more bullshit gaslighting.

How many times did right wingers cry THEY'RE WEAPONIZING THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, meanwhile Stephen Miller is over here doing an ILLEGAL mass kidnapping and human trafficking campaign and y'all either shrug your shoulders or cheer it on. Don't worry the brownshirts didn't think they were the bad guys either.

I swear, being a history major is ****ing wild when you see the entire ****ing society fail an open-book test in real time.
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It's not true.

The problem is there are uber-partisans who will not accept the results of a democratic election process. We did not elect a King. We elected a president who by all counts won bigly. Besides the WH, he won the House, the Senate, seven battleground states and the popular vote. Those who cannot and will not accept this truth are doing everything they can to disrupt a duly elected president's term in office. Ironically, they are the autocrats and tyrants that all should be fearing. Don't be like them.
 
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OlNate said:
Uh, no, it was due to the fact that there was a pandemic happening that was killing millions of people around the world. You know many conservatives participated without constantly shitting their diapers too, right?

You really ought to stop guessing what people think or believe... you're ****ing awful at it. 🤭
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Actually, @Gardener made an accurate assessment. It was some elected blue state Democrats who acted like unconstitutional authoritarians with their mask mandates, attempts to mandate covid vaccines, fired federal employees who wouldn't get covid vaccines, and closing down businesses that hurt the economy and schools that hurt the kids.
 
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jmotivator said:
Also funny that nowhere in that article do any of those scholars say he's a fascist... do you agree with them?
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I agree with them that trump is an authoritarian. Their silence on the fascist thing doesn't mean he's not a fascist; it's just not always worth using the word because you trumpies crap your pants every time you hear it, and retreat under things like Reductio ad Hitlerum.

jmotivator said:
Also, saying that they would impeach a judge isn't authoritarian when the person saying it doesn't assume the power to impeach a judge.
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He doesn't need the legal power to make things happen. If trump said that "Nancy Pelosi should be shot," there's a good chance that some nutbag trumpie is going to make an effort. He has toadies in Congress that can pick up the judge-impeachment baton for him.

jmotivator said:
"He said mean things so he's an Authoritarian!!!" is grade school bullshit.
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Reading it as such is grade-school level analysis.

jmotivator said:
And when you have been targeted by a bogus accusation of being a Russian asset that was built on rumors gathered from Russian assets, it's absolutely justified to deny clearance to anyone involved.
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The accusations were hardly unfounded. There is still TONS of evidence of Russian help during the 2016 election; it was only the coordination that they failed to prove. So what trump's actions really amount to is a combination of revenge and purging the government of anybody that dares to do their job.

trump could hardly do anything more for Russia if he were a Russian plant.

jmotivator said:
Milley told China that he would give them a heads up in back channels in the US went to war... he deserves more than just losing his clearance. He should be in prison.
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Milley is the kind of man that prevents tragedies. trump is the kind of loose cannon that risks tragedies.
 
trixare4kids said:
It's not true.

The problem is there are uber-partisans who will not accept the results of a democratic election process. We did not elect a King. We elected a president who by all counts won bigly. Besides the WH, he won the House, the Senate, seven battleground states and the popular vote. Those who cannot and will not accept this truth are doing everything they can to disrupt a duly elected president's term in office. Ironically, they are the autocrats and tyrants that all should be fearing. Don't be like them.
Click to expand...

Are we talking about the 2020 election? Not accepting the results of an election? Not accepting the truth?

Project much?
 
What if...? said:
Well, we can start with Habeus Corpus. This was covered in the Constitution because it was common for tyrants to just raffle up critics and lock them in a dungeon somewhere.
Click to expand...
So where was that done by Trump?
What if...? said:
The Constitution is a tyrant defense system. It forbids all of the tools of tyranny they knew about at the time.

Free speech because tyrants control what can and can’t be said about them and their regimes.
Click to expand...
Where was that done by Trump?
What if...? said:
Freedom of religion due to discrimination and abuse at the hands of religious tyrants.
Click to expand...
Where was that done by Trump?
What if...? said:
And the Second amendment because one of the first things tyrants do is take weapons away from the subjects.
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Trump's justice picks helped restore the 2nd amendment. It's the leftist states that are trying to violate it.
What if...? said:
Those Founders would absolutely positively not approve of how trump is doing things. If he can do it to anybody he can do it to…anybody.
Click to expand...
 
trixare4kids said:
Actually, @Gardener made an accurate assessment. It was some elected blue state Democrats who acted like unconstitutional authoritarians with their mask mandates, attempts to mandate covid vaccines, fired federal employees who wouldn't get covid vaccines, and closing down businesses that hurt the economy and schools that hurt the kids.
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No, he's made a dumbass assessment. It was covid that did all that.

As for what happened to people that wouldn't participate in the effort and do their duty.... why the hell would I ever give a shit about what happened to them when they made it clear that they didn't give a shit about what happened to me? I've never had that explained to where it makes sense, maybe you'd like to give it a try?

Or maybe you'd like to attempt to explain why this is being framed as a partisan issue, when the right had plenty of folks willing to give a shit about their fellow man and pitch in, and the left had their share of dumbasses who refused. To me it looks more like decent vs indecent, but I'm open to hearing how this gets framed as left vs right.
 
trixare4kids said:
It's not true.

The problem is there are uber-partisans who will not accept the results of a democratic election process. We did not elect a King. We elected a president who by all counts won bigly. Besides the WH, he won the House, the Senate, seven battleground states and the popular vote. Those who cannot and will not accept this truth are doing everything they can to disrupt a duly elected president's term in office. Ironically, they are the autocrats and tyrants that all should be fearing. Don't be like them.
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Elon Musk stated he rigged the election for Trump. This is as much evidence as the GOP had that 2020 was “rigged”, thus we’ll never really know if Donald Trump won so “bigly”
 
OlNate said:
No, he's made a dumbass assessment. It was covid that did all that.

As for what happened to people that wouldn't participate in the effort and do their duty.... why the hell would I ever give a shit about what happened to them when they made it clear that they didn't give a shit about what happened to me?
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So basically, the face diaper people were in power, you got your way, so **** everybody else?
OlNate said:
I've never had that explained to where it makes sense, maybe you'd like to give it a try?

Or maybe you'd like to attempt to explain why this is being framed as a partisan issue, when the right had plenty of folks willing to give a shit about their fellow man and pitch in, and the left had their share of dumbasses who refused. To me it looks more like decent vs indecent, but I'm open to hearing how this gets framed as left vs right.
Click to expand...
 
trixare4kids said:
It's not true.

The problem is there are uber-partisans who will not accept the results of a democratic election process. We did not elect a King. We elected a president who by all counts won bigly. Besides the WH, he won the House, the Senate, seven battleground states and the popular vote. Those who cannot and will not accept this truth are doing everything they can to disrupt a duly elected president's term in office. Ironically, they are the autocrats and tyrants that all should be fearing. Don't be like them.
Click to expand...


Agreed!

They are called MAGA.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Are we talking about the 2020 election? Not accepting the results of an election? Not accepting the truth?

Project much?
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Amen to that.

Is anyone even the slightest bit fooled though?

Day in and day out cult45/47 worships, praises and glorifies the man they know lied about the 2020 election being stolen. Some openly admitting knowing it wasn’t stolen, some inadvertantly, some know but simply refuse to admit it instead giving themselves away by dancing all around it.

- Which means they know he not only lied, he completely tore the country apart based on lies.
- it means they know he falsely accused/accuses people of committing crimes, stealing the election.
- It means they know a president simply refused to accept the will of the people.
- it means they know he simply refused to accept a duly elected president..
- It means they know every time he still peddles it, which is often. he’s lying.
- It means they know when he’s still accusing others of committing crimes, stealing the election, it’s a lie.
- It means they know when others peddle it it’s a lie.
- It means they know J6, “Stop the Steal”, was based on lies.
- and on…

Yet they praise, worship and glorify him as if he’s the savior of truth, justice and the American way.

He always knew he had legitimately lost the election, he just refused to publicly admit it just as he’s always refused to admit he ever lost at anything, so instead tore the country apart.

The level of dishonesty and lack of self awareness it takes to now even attempt to try to claim some moral high ground, chastise anyone, or think to even have any standing regarding election results/duly elected presidents, ( simply because cult45/47 wants all to now bow down to dear leader and he should never even be criticized since he managed to win an election ) is mind numbing.
 
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Cosmo said:
So basically, the face diaper people were in power, you got your way, so **** everybody else?
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Yeah, I'm not even going to bother refuting that post. Why bother because you're right, that's exactly what it is. There are people who simply believe government owes them stuff. Now when it's a person who isn't even a citizen of our country and they delude themselves into believing a foreign government owes them things they want, it's a hundred times worse.
 
trixare4kids said:
Yeah, I'm not even going to bother refuting that post. Why bother because you're right, that's exactly what it is. There are people who simply believe government owes them stuff. Now when it's a person who isn't even a citizen of our country and they delude themselves into believing a foreign government owes them things they want, it's a hundred times worse.
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Lol... I thought you said you weren't going to refute. 🐥

During a global pandemic, decent people think and respond globally. Here's why:

nationalpost.com

Canada's early COVID-19 cases came from the U.S. not China, provincial data shows

The National Post asked for data on the origins of travel-related cases in Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia and Alberta, which have seen the majority of Canada’s C…
nationalpost.com nationalpost.com

We all owed each other. Only some of us took that seriously.
 
Since nobody on the right seems to want to debate my link, I guess I'll just post excerpts and make it easier to find.

verdict.justia.com

34 out of 35 Scholars Agree: Trump is a Lawless Authoritarian

Cornell Law professor Michael C. Dorf evaluates the constitutional and legal abuses committed by Donald Trump during his second term as president, based on a New York Times survey of 35 legal scholars...
verdict.justia.com verdict.justia.com

Question 1: What do you think are the most significant and/or egregious examples of illegal or unconstitutional behavior by Mr. Trump and his administration? Please give us your list.

I would put the actions in tiers. In tier 1:

A) Revoking security clearances and threatening companies that hire law firms that represent interests seen as adverse to the president personally or to his policies.

B) Threatening judges with impeachment for adverse rulings. Although removal is not a serious possibility with Republicans’ narrow edge in the Senate, the public nature of the threats could embolden actors to engage in private violence. That threat is real given the president’s constitutional and lawful but outrageous pardoning of even the most violent January 6 insurrectionists.

C) Failing to comply with court orders. Even as President Trump says that he always complies with court orders, his lieutenants have questioned the obligation to do so, and, more importantly, his administration has failed to comply (e.g., by not restoring funding when ordered to do so), even while disingenuously claiming to comply (e.g., by contending that Judge James Boasberg’s order in the case involving renditions to El Salvador didn’t count because it was oral).

I put all of the foregoing examples in the top tier because they undergird everything else. If persons and firms subject to unlawful orders cannot obtain legal representation and/or cannot depend on the courts to rein in the administration’s illegality, then the president can, as a practical matter, do whatever he wants. That would not be entirely true if there were a reasonable prospect of pushback from Congress, but while individual Republican Senators have voiced opposition to the tariffs, the House leadership will not oppose Trump, at least not yet.
 
OlNate said:
Uh, no, it was due to the fact that there was a pandemic happening that was killing millions of people around the world. You know many conservatives participated without constantly shitting their diapers too, right?

You really ought to stop guessing what people think or believe... you're ****ing awful at it. 🤭
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Yes, you leftists do not actually oppose authoritarianism.

You only oppose that which counters YOUR OWN authoritarianism.

Sure, you are uneducated and so do not understand the meaning of political terms, but that is not a valid excuse..
 
Gardener said:
Yes, you leftists do not actually oppose authoritarianism.

You only oppose that which counters YOUR OWN authoritarianism.

Sure, you are uneducated and so do not understand the meaning of political terms, but that is not a valid excuse..
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The weird caps rant tells me you're super educated, though. 🤭

Look, i know you're trying to get me all upset and riled up, it's what you people do when you're losing. As a PSA, in an effort to save your keyboard the extra wear and tear of your frustration at being utterly ineffective in that regard, let me just say that your content is all i need to know that you are not a person who will ever matter enough to me to make me upset.

Since you're obsessed with telling me, and, well, everyone else what we think and believe, I'll leave you to enjoy yourself, since you have presented nothing but masturbatory rhetoric and apologetics for indecent selfishness and lack of concern for your fellow human beings. Clearly I'm not required for this discussion, you seem to be having fun making shit up all on your own.

One last time: covid taught us there are two types of people in the world - those who are decent and those who are not, and that difference boils down to whether or not they were willing to do their part to save lives during a global pandemic. Those who are not do not warrant concern.

And, honestly, regarding the so-called "authoritarianism"... decent people never needed to be "ordered" to do their part. Like everything else, you brought that on yourself.

Have a lovely evening. :)
 
He is looking easing the ban on asbestos 25% of which will come from Russia. He is shutting down the suicide hot line for LGBTQ people. Explain how these type moves are positive in any way. He is advocating a reduction in paid holidays for workers. I recall him saying he hated the idea of paying time and one half for workers. He has spent nearly 40 days of his 5 1/2 months in office playing golf. He covers the oval office with 24K gold and spends multimillions of a failed birthday parade he disguised as a military parade. Meanwhile his brain is melting causing him to repeat himself like a broken record. 3 1/2 more years? No way.
 
 
Executive orders deemed unconstitutional

At least 40 of his executive orders have been stopped by injunction.

Just Liberal judges trying to stop his agenda?

25% of the injunctions have been put in place by Republican appointed judges, and of those 3, Carl Nichols, Fernando Rodriguez Jr., and Trevor McFadden, were appointed by Trump himself.

Here's a short list of people who worked in the Trump administration who later criticized him.
  • Mike Pence - Former Vice President
  • James Mattis - Former Secretary of Defense
  • Mark Esper - Former Secretary of Defense
  • Mark Milley - Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
  • Rex Tillerson - Former Secretary of State
  • Nikki Haley - Former U.N. Ambassador
  • Chris Christie - Former Presidential Transition Vice-Chairman
  • H.R. McMaster - Former National Security Adviser
  • John Bolton - Former National Security Adviser
  • John Kelly - Former Chief of Staff
  • Bill Barr - Former Attorney General
  • Sarah Matthews - Former Deputy White House Press Secretary
  • Cassidy Hutchinson - Former Aide to Chief of Staff Mark Meadows
  • Omarosa Manigault Newman - Former Director of Communications, Office of Public Liaison
  • Anthony Scaramucci - Former White House Communications Director
  • Stephanie Grisham - Former White House Press Secretary
  • Olivia Troye - Former National Security Adviser to Mike Pence
  • Alyssa Farah Griffin - Former White House Communications Director
  • Miles Taylor - Former Homeland Security Official
  • Christopher Krebs - Former Top Cybersecurity Official
  • Jeff Sessions - Former Attorney General
  • Cliff Sims - Former Special Assistant to the President and Director of White House Message Strategy
  • Tom Bossert - Former Homeland Security Adviser
  • Richard Spencer - Former Navy Secretary
  • Fiona Hill - Former Deputy Assistant and Senior Director for Europe and Russia, National Security Council

Lastly, someone show me an unscripted response on a topic, any topic, where Trump gives an intelligent, thought provoking response to a question, one that demonstrates Trumps deep understanding of a topic, specifically the nuances of a question he was asked.

Anyone?

Trump is an embarrassment, and most of the people that support him do so because of the cathartic feeling of "owning the libs", of saying whatever comes to his mind (which isn't much).

He's a disgrace and an embarrassment and he's set the nation back 20 years if we're lucky.

Trump derangement syndrome?

That's rich coming from a group that still brings up both of the Clintons, and Obama on a regular bases, no one more than Trump himself.

Trump derangement syndrome? Here are a few examples:

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1751238219087.webp

1751238278458.webp
 
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