If the 2nd Amendment goes away....

[vegas giants]

LOL. No substantiation, just more claims.



The reality is that guns aren't the problem, they are just a tool. Take away guns, other means of murder increase.

Do deal with the root cause of the problem, you have to deal with the human wielding the tool.

How about eliminating the liberal / progressive indoctrination in the education system, and teaching respect, self discipline and manners rather than self-indulgences and participation trophies?

Improve the people, not eliminate the access to the tools.



A repetition of the same err in judgment that got them to the place they are at now.

What next when even knives are deemed to dangerous for the electorate? What tool to ban next?

Did you say the key to reducing gun violence is taking away participation trophies? That is freaking hilarious

 

[eohrnberger]

you are comparing two of the safest cities in the world BECAUSE OF GUN CONTROL. You are making my case

I guess it was just too much cognitive dissonance about how London has a higher murder rate than NYC, so you'd call a higher murder rate than NYC the safest city in the world? No wonder you have distorted view of reality. :lamo

Did you say the key to reducing gun violence is taking away participation trophies? That is freaking hilarious

Completely missed the point of focusing on the real problem. No wonder the left keeps failing at public policy.

 

[vegas giants]

I guess it was just too much cognitive dissonance about how London has a higher murder rate than NYC, so you'd call a higher murder rate than NYC the safest city in the world? No wonder you have distorted view of reality. :lamo



Completely missed the point of focusing on the real problem. No wonder the left keeps failing at public policy.

How can you not know this. LOL

NYPD Press Release | NY Safest Big City

 

[eohrnberger]

How can you not know this. LOL

NYPD Press Release | NY Safest Big City

Way back Monday, September 13, 2010, so 7 1/2 years ago. That the best you can do? Pretty lame.

Got something a bit more recent.

New York City Crime Rate At Lowest Level Since 1950s : NPR
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/.../how-crime-rates-in-new-york-city-reached-record-lows
Dec 30, 2017 - In 1990, the number of murders in New York City peaked, with more than 2,200 people killed. That same year, Bill Bratton took command as chief of the New York City Transit Police. He went on to serve as New York City police commissioner from 1994 to 1996. It was during those years, and the years ...

And you are pettifogging the issue, which is that London, the city you called one of the safest in the world, has passed NYC murder rate for the first time in history.

The data supports the premise, which was that banning the tools, as the UK has a gun ban, doesn't have an effect on the murder or crime rates.

Yet gun banning is all the left seems to want to do.

 

[vegas giants]

Way back Monday, September 13, 2010, so 7 1/2 years ago. That the best you can do? Pretty lame.

Got something a bit more recent.

New York City Crime Rate At Lowest Level Since 1950s : NPR
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/.../how-crime-rates-in-new-york-city-reached-record-lows
Dec 30, 2017 - In 1990, the number of murders in New York City peaked, with more than 2,200 people killed. That same year, Bill Bratton took command as chief of the New York City Transit Police. He went on to serve as New York City police commissioner from 1994 to 1996. It was during those years, and the years ...

And you are pettifogging the issue, which is that London, the city you called one of the safest in the world, has passed NYC murder rate for the first time in history.

The data supports the premise, which was that banning the tools, as the UK has a gun ban, doesn't have an effect on the murder or crime rates.

Yet gun banning is all the left seems to want to do.

My god you have to be kidding. How many murders did London beat NYC by? How long did it last for? Where does NYC rank in the US in gun deaths? My god this is hilarious!

 

[eohrnberger]

My god you have to be kidding. How many murders did London beat NYC by? How long did it last for? Where does NYC rank in the US in gun deaths? My god this is hilarious!

Yeah, you're hilarious. Keep pushing bad public policy that don't solve a single thing.
It'll be sure unify your opposition.

 

[vegas giants]

Yeah, you're hilarious. Keep pushing bad public policy that don't solve a single thing.
It'll be sure unify your opposition.

Except create two incredibly safe cities!!!!! LOL

 

[SDET]

I doubt congress would do that.

But a "President with a pen" might. "If Congress doesn't act, I will."

 

[OlNate]

Ignoring reality and statistics?

Tell me. How effective has gun control laws been in Chicago and in DC?

How effective has the Australian gun buy back program been?

Answer: They've not been, because criminals willing to go to the black market for guns really don't obey gun control laws.

Gun control laws on punish the law abiding who aren't the source of the problem, so gun control laws are the typical ineffective ill-conceived, feel good laws and public policy that do nothing but make the problem worse.

If, on the outside chance, that there are some specific legislative proposals that would actually do some good, then we should possibly entertain the idea of honestly discussing them. So far, the left hasn't demonstrated either.

Until there are, and can be discussed honestly and factually, the left is pissing in the wind on themselves, and just too dumb to realize it.

lol...you don't get it do you. You're expending all kinds of energy trying to sell me on something I already believe, and have been advocating for here for weeks now, because you assume that my progressive lean means I'm against guns. I'm not in the slightest, I enjoy shooting myself, including a fair amount of range time spent having fun with the dreaded AR15, so of course I agree with everything in your last post. I grew up with firearms, having had the good fortune of living in the country...I've got great memories of my grandfather teaching me to shoot when I was maybe 11 or 12 on an old single shot bolt action .22.

But that's not the statistics I'm talking about. I'm talking about how only 1 in 5 Americans want 2A repealed. Give that a thought for a sec. Despite the results of the last election, more Americans voted against the right than for it. If this were a left vs. right issue that should be at least 1 in 2, if not 5 in 9, Americans calling for the 2A to be repealed, but it's not even close.

I feel like a broken record, because I've said this so many times on here already, but this is not left vs. right, this is between people who get guns and people who don't. You don't bridge that gap by generalizing and alienating a good chunk of your support.

 

[TurtleDude]

lol...you don't get it do you. You're expending all kinds of energy trying to sell me on something I already believe, and have been advocating for here for weeks now, because you assume that my progressive lean means I'm against guns. I'm not in the slightest, I enjoy shooting myself, including a fair amount of range time spent having fun with the dreaded AR15, so of course I agree with everything in your last post. I grew up with firearms, having had the good fortune of living in the country...I've got great memories of my grandfather teaching me to shoot when I was maybe 11 or 12 on an old single shot bolt action .22.

But that's not the statistics I'm talking about. I'm talking about how only 1 in 5 Americans want 2A repealed. Give that a thought for a sec. Despite the results of the last election, more Americans voted against the right than for it. If this were a left vs. right issue that should be at least 1 in 2, if not 5 in 9, Americans calling for the 2A to be repealed, but it's not even close.

I feel like a broken record, because I've said this so many times on here already, but this is not left vs. right, this is between people who get guns and people who don't. You don't bridge that gap by generalizing and alienating a good chunk of your support.

its absolutely disgusting that 20% of Americans are so hateful of our constitutional rights

 

[apdst]

Actually they can't

Sure they can. Look at sanctuary cities and gun bans and marijuana legalization. Those are all contrary to Federal law and nothing is being done about it. States can pass laws protecting gun ownership, too. In my home, the great State of Louisiana the state constitution already has an amendment protecting gun ownership, so we're good.

 

[OlNate]

its absolutely disgusting that 20% of Americans are so hateful of our constitutional rights

Maybe so...but the fact that it's only 20% forces you to move the narrative away from yet another left vs. right shouting match. It isn't that, man...sorry...the numbers just don't support that claim.

 

[vegas giants]

Sure they can. Look at sanctuary cities and gun bans and marijuana legalization. Those are all contrary to Federal law and nothing is being done about it. States can pass laws protecting gun ownership, too. In my home, the great State of Louisiana the state constitution already has an amendment protecting gun ownership, so we're good.

Because the federal government has an official policy not to pursue it. Try that with guns....not going to happen

 

[eohrnberger]

Except create two incredibly safe cities!!!!! LOL

You've yet to produce anything that substantiates that gun bans have any cause and effect relationship for reducing violent crime.

Criminals don't give a rats ass what the gun ban laws are. They'll procure their guns through illegal means, regardless.

Disarming innocent law abiding firearms owners doesn't make them any safer and doesn't change criminal's behavior not even the tiniest bit.

 

[camlok]

The states could pass their own laws protecting gun ownership and ignore the federals laws.

Guns are interstate commerce. They could Mann Act them to death.

 

[vegas giants]

You've yet to produce anything that substantiates that gun bans have any cause and effect relationship for reducing violent crime.

Criminals don't give a rats ass what the gun ban laws are. They'll procure their guns through illegal means, regardless.

Disarming innocent law abiding firearms owners doesn't make them any safer and doesn't change criminal's behavior not even the tiniest bit.

You were the one the quoted two cities with very low murder rates. You brought them up ....not me. My god this is hilarious

 

[eohrnberger]

lol...you don't get it do you. You're expending all kinds of energy trying to sell me on something I already believe, and have been advocating for here for weeks now, because you assume that my progressive lean means I'm against guns. I'm not in the slightest, I enjoy shooting myself, including a fair amount of range time spent having fun with the dreaded AR15, so of course I agree with everything in your last post. I grew up with firearms, having had the good fortune of living in the country...I've got great memories of my grandfather teaching me to shoot when I was maybe 11 or 12 on an old single shot bolt action .22.

But that's not the statistics I'm talking about. I'm talking about how only 1 in 5 Americans want 2A repealed. Give that a thought for a sec. Despite the results of the last election, more Americans voted against the right than for it. If this were a left vs. right issue that should be at least 1 in 2, if not 5 in 9, Americans calling for the 2A to be repealed, but it's not even close.

I feel like a broken record, because I've said this so many times on here already, but this is not left vs. right, this is between people who get guns and people who don't. You don't bridge that gap by generalizing and alienating a good chunk of your support.

OK. Fair.

But also to be fair, the gun grabbers are alienating the gun owners with all the baseless, accusatory, factually incorrect crap they keep spewing, which the news (political propaganda) media keeps giving them the public bull horn to spew (yet another problems where things went off the tracks).

None of which are conducive to what they falsely claim they want to have, which is an honest discussion on the matter, specific to public policy on that matter.

What they really want is their way, and if ripping constitutional rights from others who disagree, they aren't the least concerned; concerned as to the precedent that this sets, much less the infringement of rights or the ineffectual public policies that would result.

its absolutely disgusting that 20% of Americans are so hateful of our constitutional rights

Agreed.

Some don't want to own guns, fine. Who's forcing them to buy them? No one that I can recall.

Why do those same gun grabbers feel the need, feel that they are entitled to, infringe on the constitutional rights of those that wish to exercise those constitutionally
guaranteed rights?

 

[vegas giants]

OK. Fair.

But also to be fair, the gun grabbers are alienating the gun owners with all the baseless, accusatory, factually incorrect crap they keep spewing, which the news (political propaganda) media keeps giving them the public bull horn to spew (yet another problems where things went off the tracks).

None of which are conducive to what they falsely claim they want to have, which is an honest discussion on the matter, specific to public policy on that matter.

What they really want is their way, and if ripping constitutional rights from others who disagree, they aren't the least concerned; concerned as to the precedent that this sets, much less the infringement of rights or the ineffectual public policies that would result.



Agreed.

Some don't want to own guns, fine. Who's forcing them to buy them? No one that I can recall.

Why do those same gun grabbers feel the need, feel that they are entitled to, infringe on the constitutional rights of those that wish to exercise those constitutionally
guaranteed rights?

Maybe it is the parade of little coffins

 

[eohrnberger]

You were the one the quoted two cities with very low murder rates. You brought them up ....not me. My god this is hilarious

Maybe it is the parade of little coffins

Not worth my time, and superseded by a conversation that is far more interesting.

 

[vegas giants]

Not worth my time, and superseded by a conversation that is far more interesting.

Yeah I accept your concession.

Next time you want to complain about how bad a city is doing with gun control you should check the stats first. Lol

 

[eohrnberger]

Yeah I accept your concession.

Next time you want to complain about how bad a city is doing with gun control you should check the stats first. Lol

I concede nothing except that this conversation with you is neither interesting nor productive.

 

[TurtleDude]

Guns are interstate commerce. They could Mann Act them to death.

apparently you have no understanding of the Mann act, the second amendment or the tenth amendment

 

[vegas giants]

I concede nothing except that this conversation with you is neither interesting nor productive.

Yes I know. Those massive murders are just piling up in nyc and London. Lol

 

[eohrnberger]

Yes I know. Those massive murders are just piling up in nyc and London. Lol

Ignoring Chicago and DC because it doesn't fit your narrative or agenda? Yeah I think so. Must be Vern #2.

 

[vegas giants]

Ignoring Chicago and DC because it doesn't fit your narrative or agenda? Yeah I think so. Must be Vern #2.

You don't want to discuss London or nyc anymore? Guess where Chicago is ranked in per capita gun deaths in the US? I love this