IF Holocaust happened in Germany, why palestinian pays for?

[German guy]

i don't have any idea about it. i think this is the RIGHTS of those people to accept that solution or NOT. i respect whatever they decide.

Both sides in this conflicts have rights and legitimate concerns. No solution will work if either side wants to get 100% of their claims through, there has to be a compromise. I don't see what such a compromise could possibly look like and be satisfying for both sides, if it didn't include a two-state-solution.

 

[ilia786]

Ottoman empire was a big empire and did not just contain Israel. After UK was bored of having the Ottoman empire, they decided to split the empire up into small countries depending on who lived there.

Jews lived there too. Why shouldn't they get some land?

why do you think those people are separated from Jews? people who lived there can have their land and goverment, there is no reason to established a religious based country which fill its population from all around the world.

 

[German guy]

why do you think those people are separated from Jews? people who lived there can have their land and goverment, there is no reason to established a religious based country which fill its population from all around the world.

Well, for starters, Israel is a free country and many Muslims live there too.

And then, I wonder what you think about the propensity of Muslims to establish religiously based countries ... for example, what do you think about Iran in these regards? I understand Jews perfectly who don't want to live under Muslim rule.

 

[Camlon]

why do you think those people are separated from Jews? people who lived there can have their land and goverment, there is no reason to established a religious based country which fill its population from all around the world.

That was the original thought from the UK. They wanted the people who lived there to be in the same country regardless if they are Jews or not.

Problem is that they were fighting against each other due to having different relgions. It made more sense to split the country into two, one area for the Jews, and one area for the Muslims.

It especially doesn't work when there was no democracy. Should they give the power to Jewish leaders or Muslim leaders? Neither is fair. The only fair solution is to give Jews some area and Muslims some area.

 

[ilia786]

Both sides in this conflicts have rights and legitimate concerns. No solution will work if either side wants to get 100% of their claims through, there has to be a compromise. I don't see how such a compromise could possibly look like and be satisfying for both sides, if it didn't include a two-state-solution.

there is no both side. for me, there people who lived there, original ones, who lived years and years Muslims, Jews, Christians.
but the ones who come from all over the word has no right to decide. sounds irrational?

 

[German guy]

there is no both side. for me, there people who lived there, original ones, who lived years and years Muslims, Jews, Christians.
but the ones who come from all over the word has no right to decide. sounds irrational?

Yes. Because first, most Jews who live in Israel today were born there and have spent most of their lives there, regardless of the question where their parents originally came from. It's their home now. They know no other home.

And second, it is totally normal in today's world that there is immigration. Do you think we Germans should not grant the many Muslims who came here after WW2, Turks and Iranians too, rights too? Or deny them the right to participate here, when they have gained German citizenship?

And third, the same that goes for Israelis goes for Palestinians. Those who live in the West Bank and Gaza have never known Israel. They have never lived there, even if their grandparents once came from there. It's NOT their home, and they have no rights on it.

It does sound irrational when you make territorial claims that go back deep into the past. What matters are the people who live today.

 

[ilia786]

That was the original thought from the UK. They wanted the people who lived there to be in the same country regardless if they are Jews or not.

Problem is that they were fighting against each other due to having different religions. It made more sense to split the country into two, one area for the Jews, and one area for the Muslims.

if there were a original Jews and other races, they could decided what to do with their lands. but we talking about a country who gathered their people from all around the world. those people who are from German, Netherlander, united states and etc has any right there? if yes, why?

 

[Camlon]

if there were a original Jews and other races, they could decided what to do with their lands. but we talking about a country who gathered their people from all around the world. those people who are from German, Netherlander, united states and etc has any right there? if yes, why?

What are you going to do with the land no one lived in. Who is going to get that land? You can't assume that all no mans land is going to go to Muslims by default.

Also, isn't those Jews free to allow immigration from other countries into their communities?

 

[ilia786]

Yes. Because first, most Jews who live in Israel today were born there and have spent most of their lives there, regardless of the question where their parents originally came from. It's their home now. They know no other home.

And second, it is totally normal in today's world that there is immigration. Do you think we Germans should not grant the many Muslims who came here after WW2, Turks and Iranians too, rights too? Or deny them the right to participate here, when they have gained German citizenship?

And third, the same that goes for Israelis goes for Palestinians. Those who live in the West Bank and Gaza have never known Israel. They have never lived there, even if their grandparents once came from there. It's NOT their home, and they have no rights on it.

It does sound irrational when you make territorial claims that go back deep into the past. What matters are the people who live today.

but it is matters how people get there. we weren't in barbarian time (acutely seems we are) that a group of people can occupancy some lands and established a country. and you claim after some years their children have rights about that lands!

so you claim the children of the people who had to leave their lands has no right to those anymore?! OK, this an idea, thanks
in ww2 after occupying Berlin by Allies of World War II, if they throw out Germans and lived there for couple of decades they would have right for those lands? and children of those Germans who throwing out, and grown up in other parts of Germany, has no right for their mother land anymore?

 

[ilia786]

What are you going to do with the land no one lived in. Who is going to get that land? You can't assume that all no mans land is going to go to Muslims by default.

again and again, what do you think that those lands were just for Muslims, why do you think all Palestinians were Muslims?! I'm not suggesting those lands goes to Muslims, it belongs to all the people who lived there, Jews, Muslims, Christians and they can rule their lands however they want. that's all i wanna say.

Also, isn't those Jews free to allow immigration from other countries into their communities?

why not, but they can claim to chose the destiny of those lands who live there for couple of years.

 

[Camlon]

again and again, what do you think that those lands were just for Muslims, why do you think all Palestinians were Muslims?! I'm not suggesting those lands goes to Muslims, it belongs to all the people who lived there, Jews, Muslims, Christians and they can rule their lands however they want. that's all i wanna say.

why not, but they can claim to chose the destiny of those lands who live there for couple of years.

I never suggested all of them were just Muslims.

You seem to go the anarchy route. Just let them control the area they live in. Problem is, both Jews and Muslims wanted to control the whole area, not just the area they lived in. Also, they were killing each other.

If we didn't do anything civil war would have kept going on and would eventually have ended with another holocaust, or Jews would have taken the whole area and kicked the Muslims out. How is that any better than a two state solution?

 

[Hyena]

nop, because they always belonged to a country which they were a part of it. why can't you understand before establishing Israel, lands of the Palestine belonged to its people, christian, Muslim and Jews together. is it hard to understand those lands belong to them and not a population from all around the world?

Why it is so hard for you to understand history?
Again, palestine has never been a State. The land was owned by Ottomans before and by British after. And then the Brits decided to divide it in 2 new states, 1 for Jews (who always lived there) and one for Arabs.

 

[donsutherland1]

whatever you want, you can call them, but it's not gonna change the people who lived there for years and years. how can it possibly be justify, peaple gettered all over the world based on their religions and take those land and established a country?! i don't get it!

The Ottoman Empire beginning in 1905 and the UK when it had jurisdiction over the territory allowed immigration. As the sovereigns with authority, they had the power to permit immigration. When the issue about how to bring the territory to sovereignty arose, the people who were living there at the time had an equal right to self-determination. Given the low-level ethnic conflict that was raging and irreconcilable differences among the area's two peoples, partition was the only plan that accommodated both people's needs, even if it fell short of their aspirations to gain the entire land. The Jewish Agency had the foresight to accept the compromise solution. The Arab Leadership did not, gambled afterward by launching an invasion, and wound up even worse off than it would have been had it accepted the partition plan. Today, history can't be undone. There's still an opportunity to create a sovereign Palestinian state. That's where the focus should be.

 

[German guy]

so you claim the children of the people who had to leave their lands has no right to those anymore?! OK, this an idea, thanks
in ww2 after occupying Berlin by Allies of World War II, if they throw out Germans and lived there for couple of decades they would have right for those lands? and children of those Germans who throwing out, and grown up in other parts of Germany, has no right for their mother land anymore?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

I, as a descendant of German refugees from the eastern territories, don't have a right on these lands anymore, which are Polish now since 1945. And I don't consider them my home, even if my grandparents once lived there, as I have never been there, I was born and grew up in Berlin. These places are almost as alien to me as is China.

If we laid claim on these lands, as the Palestinians do with Israel, that would cause constant trouble and war with Poland and/or Russia, and that would stand in the way of peacefully living here in my "new home", the only home I ever knew.

 

[ido_]

when those area ruled by Ottoman, who lived there? British people or Palestinian?

Same people who lived there when the British ruled.
Lets try it another way, instead of keep asking questions try answering one for once, who according to your opinion was the rightful owner of the Negev desert in 1946 and why?

 

[Red_Dave]

They became Soviet client states. Which I'd say is worse than being ruled by jooz.

I don't question your motivations so i wont tolerate any insinuations about mine, I'm out.

 

[ilia786]

Why it is so hard for you to understand history?
Again, palestine has never been a State. The land was owned by Ottomans before and by British after. And then the Brits decided to divide it in 2 new states, 1 for Jews (who always lived there) and one for Arabs.

sorry if i don't care what British decided about those lands , if you do, fine, there's an idea.

 

[ilia786]

Same people who lived there when the British ruled.
Lets try it another way, instead of keep asking questions try answering one for once, who according to your opinion was the rightful owner of the Negev desert in 1946 and why?

people who lived around those area for years and years, you can get those areas because it has no one to live there. i but I'm sure it doesn't belong to American Jews or German Jews or any other person from around the world.

 

[ilia786]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

I, as a descendant of German refugees from the eastern territories, don't have a right on these lands anymore, which are Polish now since 1945. And I don't consider them my home, even if my grandparents once lived there, as I have never been there, I was born and grew up in Berlin. These places are almost as alien to me as is China.

If we laid claim on these lands, as the Palestinians do with Israel, that would cause constant trouble and war with Poland and/or Russia, and that would stand in the way of peacefully living here in my "new home", the only home I ever knew.

OK, that's your idea. i respect it. but before suggest Palestinian to forget their mother lands, watch the photo i posted in first place and think what is left for them.

 

[Pretty Flamingo]

OK, that's your idea. i respect it. but before suggest Palestinian to forget their mother lands, watch the photo i posted in first place and think what is left for them.

I proved your first post's picture as being incorrect with my video above, so we are coming full circle. How about learning and accepting some history because you know you can't win this sort of argument?

 

[Hyena]

sorry if i don't care what British decided about those lands , if you do, fine, there's an idea.

Dude, that's not an "idea". This is what happened.
With that phrase, you are virtually saying that you don't care about reality.

 

[spanky]

thank you, this is the point i was looking for, those lands was the price you had to pay for starting the WAR. Palestinian should pay (better to say paid and paying) for what?! somebody tell me that?

Exactly, it was Israel who struck first on the '67 war.

 

[Smeagol]

i was wondering if someone can explain this to me:

IF Holocaust happened in Germany, by Germans why Israel should established in Palestine and Palestinian pay the paid for?!​

Europe kill, Palestine paid and paying: why?

In that day the heir to David’s throne will be a banner of salvation to all the world. The nations will rally to him, and the land where he lives will be a glorious place. In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to bring back the remnant of his people—those who remain in Assyria and northern Egypt; in southern Egypt, Ethiopia, and Elam; in Babylonia,e Hamath, and all the distant coastlands. He will raise a flag among the nations and assemble the exiles of Israel. He will gather the scattered people of Judah from the ends of the earth.

Isaiah 11:10-12

Dozens and dozens of other Biblical predictions as well. Interestingly, fulfilled by people who write off these predictions as nonsense.

 

[spanky]

Ottoman empire was a big empire and did not just contain Israel. After UK was bored of having the Ottoman empire, they decided to split the empire up into small countries depending on who lived there.

Jews lived there too. Why shouldn't they get some land?

Why couldn't the Jews live in the new "Palestine" as they had, as people pointed out, for thousands of years?

 

[Peter Grimm]

For pity's sake everyone, don't feed the troll!!!

It's actually a valid question.