IF Holocaust happened in Germany, why palestinian pays for?

[donsutherland1]

I need to put a few things straight, firstly Palestine was not a British Colony, the British were in Palestine under a League of Nations Mandate, after the demise of the Ottoman Empire.

That's why I used the more generic term "territory" instead of "colony."

For those who are interested, the text of the League of Nations' mandate under which the UK had jurisdiction in the territory can be found at: The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

It was the United Nations who decided that a new state of Israel should be established...

Correct, and I quoted some of the language from UNSCOP's report that recommended partition in an earlier message. The UN General Assembly adopted the Resolution 181 to adopt that plan.

 

[Wiseone]

This shows what a lie your maps are.

Watch this from 3 minutes 45 seconds to explain the lies in your map.


​

People need to recognize the bloody and often shameful history on both sides, instead of trying to paint one side or the other as completely blameless or completely at fault that just leads to further ignorance and unneeded anger.

 

[OscarB63]

why Israel established in Palestine. that's all i wanna know.
historic reason? England prime minister's words? religions reason?

1. There never was a "Palestine"

2. Israel is/was always in that region

History of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ilia786]

More strawman posting.
AS IF 'palestine' was ever a homogenous, independent, or coherent Political entity.
It was Not.
Jews lived in 'palestine' too.
In fact, it's the Jews who were called 'Palestinians', before 1948, Not Arabs.
"why they 'change name' of Mesopotamia to Iraq".
What's a "Jordanian"? Why they change name?

Why they change of the name of Israel to 'palestine'?
There Never was a self-governing country 'palestine'.
The last-self-governing country on that land before 1948 was.. Israel.. the first time.
'Palestine' was 3 provinces/sanjaks of the Ottoman Empire for 400 Years pre-1917, before that the Mamluks ruled it.

Not that they did wholly change it, since the Partition proposed an Israel AND Palestine.

that's right, the people of that lands, Muslims, Christians and Jews are lived there together for many many years. they owned the lands. not the people from all over the world who are gathered there based on their religion.

 

[ilia786]

People need to recognize the bloody and often shameful history on both sides, instead of trying to paint one side or the other as completely blameless or completely at fault that just leads to further ignorance and unneeded anger.

this is Israeli-occupied territories in Wikipedia with lot of references.

Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Red_Dave]

Some would come under Israeli sovereignty but the large majority would have gotten their own state.[/b]
But alas, they rejected the partition and Started a War which Did then create 'Refugees'.

Would you accept foreign sovereignty over where you lived due to a genocide that your people played no part in? Furthermore I would like to reiterate that.

1 The Palestinian Jewish minority you mention had existed for centuries of relatively peaceful coexistence and was largely Judueo-Spanish speaking, due to having moved to Palestine to escape persecution in oh-so-tolerant Christian Europe.

2 the suggested partition disproportionatley favored the Jewish side.

Lastly even if one accepts the narrative that rejection of the UN partition plan was the 'original sin' in the dispute then surely the Arab Peace Initiative is a possible route to redemption?

 

[ilia786]

1. There never was a "Palestine"

2. Israel is/was always in that region

History of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so you tell historically, Israelis has right to get Palestinian lands.
like i mentioned before, someday half of the world was Persian empire! do you think we should claim for them? historically?!

 

[VanceMack]

This has been bought up time and time again. The Palestinians are not 'paying' for anything. The Jewish people have a history in Palestine and are returning to their homeland.

Except...every country in the world has been formed by conquest. The US is no different. Israel did not 'take' Palestine to recreate Israel.

The question of who was there first is pretty much irrelevant. Like every other country, the relevant position is who is there NOW...so...Israel wins. But if you were a Palestinian, you might be more than a little bit chaffed about the situation.

 

[OscarB63]

so you tell historically, Israelis has right to get Palestinian lands.
like i mentioned before, someday half of the world was Persian empire! do you think we should claim for them? historically?!

what Palestinian lands? there has never been a palestine

 

[Hyena]

i was wondering if someone can explain this to me:

IF Holocaust happened in Germany, by Germans why Israel should established in Palestine and Palestinian pay the paid for?!​

The palestinians are paying for their refusal to live in peace with Jews.

BTW: You know that arabs were great allies of nazis right??

Europe kill, Palestine paid and paying: why?

The map is pure propaganda, it would be nice to report some historical facts that coused any territorial change.
Say it all, or say nothing. Otherwise you fall in factionalism.

 

[ilia786]

what Palestinian lands? there has never been a palestine

so Israel get its territory from aliens?
my mean by Palestinian is the people who lived there for years.

 

[ilia786]

The palestinians are paying for their refusal to live in peace with Jews.

BTW: You know that arabs were great allies of nazis right??

Arabs killed 6 millions Jews in word-war 2?

The map is pure propaganda, it would be nice to report some historical facts that coused any territorial change.
Say it all, or say nothing. Otherwise you fall in factionalism.

if you think this photo is propaganda read this:
Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Pretty Flamingo]

The Jews were given the land in 1922 in the San Remo Mandate by the League of Nations. The UN Partition in 1947 was in fact illegal. The UN had no right to cut up the land and give some to the arabs. That was an illegal act against the San Remo Mandate.

The world has a duty to encourage settlement by the Jews in all the land. There is no "occupation."

 

[Geoist]

Why are the Israelis occupying the Nation of Palestine? Oh wait I forgot there is no such thing as historical Nation of Palestine. In fact Palestine has no past and was never a sovereign nation. The closest thing the Palestinian people have to a history is that there was once a British Colony from which they had stolen their modern name.

So since a nation was yet to form (thanks to the turmoil of colonialism), the UN had the right to force a State upon a people who lived there for centuries?

 

[AliHajiSheik]

so you tell historically, Israelis has right to get Palestinian lands.
like i mentioned before, someday half of the world was Persian empire! do you think we should claim for them? historically?!

Perhaps not, not even the portions of Iran that have historically belonged to the Kurds.

 

[Red_Dave]

The Jews were given the land in 1922 in the San Remo Mandate by the League of Nations. The UN Partition in 1947 was in fact illegal. The UN had no right to cut up the land and give some to the arabs. That was an illegal act against the San Remo Mandate.

The world has a duty to encourage settlement by the Jews in all the land. There is no "occupation."

Paragraph one of resolution 242 states

"Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." [4]

Though if you wish to argue that the West Bank is part of Israel then I would like to know when you think Palestinian residents should be given the vote?

Lastly even if we accept the argument that the UK had a right to decide what happened to the land then we need to remember what the Balfour declaration actually says

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.[1]

 

[ido_]

ah the famous maps again, gotta love them...
I always wondered, see this red mark here, just where it says Palestine?


heres how it looks like

care to explain why the freaking desert is Palestinian? how is it more Palestinian than Jewish?
Hell in 1947, the UN gave the Palestinians all of the fertile land of the lower plains and the mountains of Judea and Sumaria and most of the Gallile while the Jews got the desert and the sand dunes along the Mediterranean Sea, now the desert which back than didn't even had that tiny road in it is all of the sudden the stolen land of the Palestinians? what???

and the last picture where it says Israel all across the west bank... well the west bank wasn't annexed by Israel yet, the Golan Heights which doesn't show up as Israel in this map were btw...

 

[ido_]

so Israel get its territory from aliens?
my mean by Palestinian is the people who lived there for years.

As in Jews?

 

[ilia786]

Perhaps not, not even the portions of Iran that have historically belonged to the Kurds.

i guess Kurds are the closest race which remain from Iranian original descent "Aryan"

 

[ilia786]

As in Jews?

yeah, Palestine country wasn't a religion based country. it include people who lived there, Jews ,Muslims, Christians and etc. why some people from around the world, should gathered and established a country and get their lands?!

 

[Hyena]

Arabs killed 6 millions Jews in word-war 2?

I didn't say so. I just said that arabs were nazis allies.
Never heard about Haj Amin al Husseini?

if you think this photo is propaganda read this:
Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Question: What has led to what your map claim?
Answer: All the wars started by the arabs.

So, again, posting some pictures without any kind of explanation is pure propaganda.

 

[donsutherland1]

Ilia786,

It is fairly clear in this thread that you are viewing the Israeli-Palestinian dispute in general and re-establishment of Israel in particular, strictly through the Arab and Palestinian narratives. You are entirely ignoring the Jewish people’s narrative. The narratives provide insight into how the Arabs, Palestinians, and Israelis view things. They do not, however, serve as a substitute for the documentary trail leading to the outcome in which Israel was re-established.

The UN Special Committee on Palestine’s (UNSCOP’s) report examining various options and recommending partition is the most authoritative document as to why that decision was made. The United Nations Charter lays out relevant principles that guided UNSCOP. Among those principles is the “self-determination of peoples.” That right extended equally to the territory’s Arab and Jewish populations. UNSCOP’s authority was set forth in UN General Assembly Resolution 106. Among its provisions were:

The Special Committee shall have the widest powers to ascertain and record facts, and to investigate all questions and issues relevant to the problem of Palestine…

The Special Committee shall give most careful consideration to the religious interests in Palestine of Islam, Judaism and Christianity…

The Special Committee shall prepare a report to the General Assembly and shall submit such proposals as it may consider appropriate for the solution of the problem of Palestine…

UNSCOP recommended partition and the UN General Assembly voted in favor of UNSCOP’s resolution. In response, the Arab leadership, who rejected any arrangement short of its gaining the entire territory, threatened to invade any Jewish state established on any part of the territory. That leadership badly miscalculated expecting to prevail. Instead, the new state of Israel won that war.

Events subsequent to that time led to additional developments and complications. All of those developments and complications helped shape today’s situation.

One cannot undo history. The situation is what it is. Today’s realities, not an attempt to undo history, offer the best starting point for developing a reasonable and practical solution.

Today, there is still opportunity for the establishment of a Palestinian state that would co-exist with Israel. Most of the world’s nations would support that outcome. I hope that such an outcome is pursued. Israel is ready to negotiate, but the Palestinian leadership is still holding out, demanding preconditions that delay the diplomatic process. Delay has its costs.

 

[Red_Dave]

I didn't say so. I just said that arabs were nazis allies.
Never heard about Haj Amin al Husseini?
.

As were the Finns, Burmese, Latvians, Estonians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, a few Indians ,the Irgun Lehi and many others who had been screwed over by the Allies, again why do you behave as though the Palestinians are unique in this regard. Surely the others should be punished also?

 

[Hyena]

As were the Finns, Burmese, Latvians, Estonians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, a few Indians ,the Irgun Lehi and many others who had been screwed over by the Allies, again why do you behave as though the Palestinians are unique in this regard. Surely the others should be punished also?

Do the Estonians/Latvians/etc have something to do with Israeli-arab conflict?

 

[Red_Dave]

Ilia786,

Today, there is still opportunity for the establishment of a Palestinian state that would co-exist with Israel. Most of the world’s nations would support that outcome. I hope that such an outcome is pursued. Israel is ready to negotiate, but the Palestinian leadership is still holding out, demanding preconditions that delay the diplomatic process. Delay has its costs.

The junior coalition partner in the ruling coalition states that it does not see a Palestinian state 'within the next 200 years' and settlements are being expanded as we speak. If anyone does not believe in the two state solution its the Israelis. The only precondition that the Palestinians have set is that the Israelis demonstrate good faith, something that Fatah has been doing, even if it means brutalizing its own people, since Oslo.