If a transgender person has a penis are they a woman?

[calamity]

You have a point, but I cannot even being to imagine the fear and the sheer horror it must be to live in a society which is so transphobic, as indeed, all societies are. I don't judge, since I've never walked in their shoes.

lol...yeah, there must be something wrong with people looking for a mate of the opposite sex who suddenly get upset when the person they met and thought was "the one" turns out to be of the same sex (or vice versa). What on earth is wrong with those people? :roll:

 

[Renae]

So you wouldn't feel violated or anything like that?

You'd have every right to feel violated. The Trans community is working very hard to make acceptance and understanding of who a transperson is, and what it entails. While we understand the need for going "stealth" in a social or work environment, if the relationship goes from friends to something more it is imperative that the Trans person let the other person know. This is out of respect and trust. However, you do not have the right to inflict violence on someone that were to be less then honest and deceive you.

It's not the common threat you think it is, and it's the hate people like you spread that keeps transwomen from being more open, they don't want to be violently attacked for existing.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

You don't get to tell me what justifies assault. It is my opinion that being tricked into sex with someone that is a man is grounds to beat their ass and I see nothing you said that displaces that belief.

I DO get to tell you what justifies assault... and I base my justification on legal precedence. You want to assault someone, I do hope that you will take responsibility and admit it when you are arrested. You don't seem to understand the concept of rights.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

So you would be completely calm if found out you were tricked into sex with a man? Hmmm..

You do realize that's irrelevant. It is on YOU do control your behavior regardless of what happens to you.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Straight men are interested in women and it is beyond absurd for anyone to even think they should have to deal with men appearing as women trying to date them.

Which is irrelevant and, of course, does nothing to refute what I said. Anyone can attempt to date anyone they want. Your issue with what you have to deal with is irrelevant. You have no right to NOT be offended. Don't like being approached? All you have to do is say, "not interested". That's the extent of your power.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Enabling someone to be scumbag will almost assuredly lead to some of them being scumbags. Telling these people you enabled to not even approach is not only safer for them, but avoids straight men having to deal with them.

I would certainly encourage people to not approach scumbags who are idiotically offended by their mere existence, however, the responsibility of acts of violence is SOLELY in the hands of those scumbags who enact the violence. The victim is blameless in that violence. The victim is only responsible for their own choices.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

That said a whole bunch of nothing. His point was that treating them as women was correct when in reality it is no more valid than treating any other man with severe hormonal imbalance as women. It's biologically wrong, so there is no reason for anyone to respect his demand of them. I consider it disrespectful to me for anyone to demand I address them wrong.

No one is demanding you do anything, and my post completely addresses this point. You have CLEARLY stated that you will be disrespectful to transsexuals... and make no mistake, your comments above are completely opinion based. No one MUST address someone based on biology, genetics, appearance or anything. This is your rigid black and white thinking working over time AGAIN. If someone wants to be called by a nickname, even if that is NOT their legal name, it is disrespectful to do otherwise. Your position is idiotic and all it does it attempts to justify the fact that you WANT to be disrespectful to transsexuals. You certainly can, but it doesn't alter what it is, your excuses notwithstanding.

And I'm doing more than just fall back on DNA to justify my position. I'm debunking his argument that developing female features is good enough to be addressed as a woman. Hormones directly interact with the genetic code of the individual to do things like develop the breasts of the person. You can't claim you're a woman because hormones used the genetic code of a man.

Of course you can. Just because you use one definition, doesn't mean everyone else has to. You use lots of reasons to be disrespectful to transsexuals. You certainly can do that, but as I said, those are just excuses in order to do so.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

It's cool. I am not a mind reader so I'll just leave it.

I won't.

Tell me why I shouldn't take it extremely personally.

Answer the question, Henrin. Why WOULD you take it personally?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

You have the strangest definition for what are or are not homosexual acts I have ever seen. Bar none.

If a guy with a dick has sex with another guy with a dick, it's a homosexual act. It matters not one iota what the hell "gender" each person identifies as. It's not relevant. It's a homosexual act, by freaking definition.

What are you talking about? Tell me calamity, if a fully transitioned MTF had sexual intercourse with a male, would you call that a "homosexual" sex act?

 

[calamity]

What are you talking about? Tell me calamity, if a fully transitioned MTF had sexual intercourse with a male, would you call that a "homosexual" sex act?

Not after the penis is removed and the fake vagina is installed. That would begin to approach heterosexual relations, even if the fully transitioned partner is not actually a real woman. But, at that point "she" is close enough to one to no longer be described as a man.

 

[calamity]

I won't.



Answer the question, Henrin. Why WOULD you take it personally?

Why wouldn't someone who was tricked in such a way "take it personally"?

 

[Renae]

Not after the penis is removed and the fake vagina is installed. That would begin to approach heterosexual relations, even if the fully transitioned partner is not actually a real woman. But, at that point "she" is close enough to one to no longer be described as a man.

... people aren't machines, you don't "install" vaginas. That's a terrible description.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

lol...yeah, there must be something wrong with people looking for a mate of the opposite sex who suddenly get upset when the person they met and thought was "the one" turns out to be of the same sex (or vice versa). What on earth is wrong with those people? :roll:

Like I say above, I don't judge since I've not walked in their shoes. Growing up trans and assuming adult life as a trans is not an easy ride - I am not in a position to judge how that makes one think or what decisions that may lead one to.

 

[X Factor]

Why would I? I don't get why you would take it so personally? Explain it to me.

I won't.



Answer the question, Henrin. Why WOULD you take it personally?

Well, I have to say that I could see where it could be violation of trust if we're speaking of an actual relationship, especially if this has been a conversation we've had and I've made my own preferences clear. I can see being pretty pissed and upset about that.

A drunken one night stand is different. I'd likely feel hugely embarrassed and pissed at myself and do the only sensible thing and blame it on the alcohol. I think this would be the situation where assault would be more likely to occur and I think that's because some dude's would rather blame their own actions on the other person.

 

[Henrin]

You have a point, but I cannot even being to imagine the fear and the sheer horror it must be to live in a society which is so transphobic, as indeed, all societies are. I don't judge, since I've never walked in their shoes.

Again, this has nothing to do with the fact that they are trans. The problem centers around the fact that they are male and that the victim is a straight male.

 

[Henrin]

Well, I have to say that I could see where it could be violation of trust if we're speaking of an actual relationship, especially if this has been a conversation we've had and I've made my own preferences clear. I can see being pretty pissed and upset about that.

A drunken one night stand is different. I'd likely feel hugely embarrassed and pissed at myself and do the only sensible thing and blame it on the alcohol. I think this would be the situation where assault would be more likely to occur and I think that's because some dude's would rather blame their own actions on the other person.

Having sex drunk has nothing to do with the other party being male and knowing the entire ****ing time they were.

 

[Henrin]

You'd have every right to feel violated. The Trans community is working very hard to make acceptance and understanding of who a transperson is, and what it entails. While we understand the need for going "stealth" in a social or work environment, if the relationship goes from friends to something more it is imperative that the Trans person let the other person know. This is out of respect and trust. However, you do not have the right to inflict violence on someone that were to be less then honest and deceive you.

It's not the common threat you think it is, and it's the hate people like you spread that keeps transwomen from being more open, they don't want to be violently attacked for existing.

I don't care. It is my opinion that there are situations in this world where a beating is called for and this topic goes over one of those times.

And I'm not talking about attacking a transperson for existing like they are walking down the street or something, but for an action they themselves committed. It is holding them accountable(the law sure as hell won't) for what they did.

 

[Henrin]

I DO get to tell you what justifies assault... and I base my justification on legal precedence. You want to assault someone, I do hope that you will take responsibility and admit it when you are arrested. You don't seem to understand the concept of rights.

I don't think you understand the concept that I don't care what the law says. What I think is right and wrong is not governed by what the law says at any given time.

 

[X Factor]

Having sex drunk has nothing to do with the other party being male and knowing the entire ****ing time they were.

I don't understand what you're saying here. You know full well going into a one night stand, especially one facilitated by alcohol, that you don't really know anything about the person you're with.

 

[Henrin]

I don't understand what you're saying here. You know full well going into a one night stand, especially one facilitated by alcohol, that you don't really know anything about the person you're with.

Even in those situations if you're male you're ****ing male, right? If so, should the trans person be involved in the situation with the man?

 

[Henrin]

You do realize that's irrelevant. It is on YOU do control your behavior regardless of what happens to you.

Who said I wouldn't be in control? You're assuming I would attack in anger or that even if I was angry I wouldn't have control, but that's a poor assumption.

 

[Henrin]

Which is irrelevant and, of course, does nothing to refute what I said. Anyone can attempt to date anyone they want. Your issue with what you have to deal with is irrelevant. You have no right to NOT be offended. Don't like being approached? All you have to do is say, "not interested". That's the extent of your power.

And if I don't know? If I have no idea do you think I will just always say not interested?

 

[Henrin]

No one is demanding you do anything, and my post completely addresses this point. You have CLEARLY stated that you will be disrespectful to transsexuals... and make no mistake, your comments above are completely opinion based. No one MUST address someone based on biology, genetics, appearance or anything. This is your rigid black and white thinking working over time AGAIN. If someone wants to be called by a nickname, even if that is NOT their legal name, it is disrespectful to do otherwise. Your position is idiotic and all it does it attempts to justify the fact that you WANT to be disrespectful to transsexuals. You certainly can, but it doesn't alter what it is, your excuses notwithstanding.

Besides being purposely wrong to appease the individual exactly why should the request be honored? I have this thing where I like to be accurate and calling a MTF a woman is not accurate. If they like I can use some other term besides man, but I won't use woman.

Of course you can. Just because you use one definition, doesn't mean everyone else has to. You use lots of reasons to be disrespectful to transsexuals. You certainly can do that, but as I said, those are just excuses in order to do so.

Biological fact is not some excuse. ****ing hell Captain, try to say something less stupid.

 

[Henrin]

What are you talking about? Tell me calamity, if a fully transitioned MTF had sexual intercourse with a male, would you call that a "homosexual" sex act?

Yes. The individual is still male, so it's still a gay sex act.

 

[calamity]

Like I say above, I don't judge since I've not walked in their shoes. Growing up trans and assuming adult life as a trans is not an easy ride - I am not in a position to judge how that makes one think or what decisions that may lead one to.

We do agree on that. I'm sure it's a rough road.

Not to equate the two groups, since they are completely different personal situations, but I liken the tricking here to be similar to when a married person tricks someone into a relationship by leading them to believe they are single. It's just wrong. People need to be up front.