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"... I did nothing wrong by being a gay man" after wrongful firing by catholic school

justabubba

justabubba

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www.wbtv.com

‘I did nothing wrong.’ Gay teacher who lost job at Charlotte Catholic High wins lawsuit

The school and the Catholic Diocese of Charlotte violated workplace sex discrimination laws in firing the former drama teacher, Lonnie Billard, U.S. District Judge Max Cogburn Jr. ruled.
www.wbtv.com www.wbtv.com
A federal judge on Friday ruled in favor of a gay former teacher who lost his job at Charlotte Catholic High School after announcing on Facebook his planned marriage to his longtime male partner.

The school and the Catholic Diocese of Charlotte violated workplace sex discrimination laws in firing the former drama teacher, Lonnie Billard, U.S. District Judge Max Cogburn Jr. ruled.

Reacting to the judge’s decision, Billard said in a statement that he felt “a sense of relief and a sense of vindication.”

... In a statement Saturday, diocesan officials said they “respectfully disagree” with Cogburn’s ruling “and are considering next steps.”

“The First Amendment, federal law, and recent Supreme Court decisions all recognize the rights of religious organizations to make employment decisions based on religious observance and preference,” according to the statement from the diocese. “They do not — and should not — compel religious schools to employ teachers who publicly contradict their teachings.

“The Catholic schools offered by the Diocese of Charlotte exist to provide high-quality education and transmit the Catholic faith to the next generation. Like all religious schools, Catholic schools are permitted to employ educators who support our Church’s teachings and will not publicly oppose them.”

... In his 54-page ruling Friday, Cogburn said federal laws protecting church autonomy and freedom of association didn’t “shield” the school and diocese from liability for violating sex discrimination laws in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.
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my wife and i disagree about this case. she believes the church should be able to fire those who do not ascribe to the church's beliefs while i believe firing a person for their sexual inclinations is not unlike terminating them because of their race; neither is a result of the person's choosing

what are your thoughts about this?

should the matter be elevated to the supreme court so that the justices can render an opinion about which right is paramount?
 
Yeah, it is a private school. I could care less if a gay person teaches my kids, but I'm not as conservative as some religious people and the religious people who send their kids to religious school tend to be very conservative.

On the other hand, where are you going to find a straight drama teacher?


.
 
Heterosexuals don't choose their sex either but the Catholic Church still doesn't allow their clergy to be sexually active.
I, personally, don't think it's the Church's business to enforce such practices but it is their right under the current law.
 
I understand what the arguments will be, a Catholic school exercising it's religious freedoms and all that - but what if some church run school decided it would not hire a black teacher because of something they believe to be true their bible says about black people?

I would argue, what a teacher does OUTSIDE of his work place is none of their business, had this teacher preached gay marriage in a private school that does not have that on it's curriculum, then I would side with the school.
 
What does the school handbook/contract specify?
 
justabubba said:
what are your thoughts about this?
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That's a toughie.

This is 2021.

We are moving to a position in which there may be no discrimination against anyone. (For example, some employers may no longer know whether an applicant has a criminal record.)

So I think that eventually private schools may not discriminate against gay teachers.

And eventually bakers must bake wedding cakes for everyone.

We already have an openly gay Cabinet member who is celebrating the adoption of some babies.

The United States of America is becoming one of the most tolerant nations in the world.

Of course, in the future it is possible that this nation becomes very conservative in social matters.

After all, demographers tell us that eventually the majority of people will be composed of ethnicities that are traditionally very conservative when it comes to sexuality. And, then, too, some growing religions in this nation are also very conservative when it comes to sexuality.

As the tragic history of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s shows, a nation can change literally overnight.
 
All the priests were gay when I went to Catholic school.
 
Having homosexual ideation is not 'wrong', per the Catholic belief system. Engaging in the practice of homsexuality IS wrong, again...per the Catholic belief system. A religious school has the right to dictate the moral code their teachers are expected to follow. If they disagree, they have the right to seek employment elsewhere.
 
justabubba said:
www.wbtv.com

‘I did nothing wrong.’ Gay teacher who lost job at Charlotte Catholic High wins lawsuit

The school and the Catholic Diocese of Charlotte violated workplace sex discrimination laws in firing the former drama teacher, Lonnie Billard, U.S. District Judge Max Cogburn Jr. ruled.
www.wbtv.com www.wbtv.com


my wife and i disagree about this case. she believes the church should be able to fire those who do not ascribe to the church's beliefs while i believe firing a person for their sexual inclinations is not unlike terminating them because of their race; neither is a result of the person's choosing

what are your thoughts about this?

should the matter be elevated to the supreme court so that the justices can render an opinion about which right is paramount?
Click to expand...
This happened to a very good friend of mine, and it was devastating. In his case, he was a 17-year teacher who was fired because of a newspaper announcement of his pending nuptials. He had been teacher-of-the-year on a number of occasions (as well as church organist). He was one of the most popular teachers at the school. Ultimately, he converted to Episcopalian and continued both his organist and teaching duties until his retirement this year.

I am not in favor of using the First Amendment as a sword to impose religious doctrine, as it was never intended for that purpose (quite the opposite). But, were it to make it to the current SC, we know how they would rule, notwithstanding the fundamental tenets of the Constitution.
 
VanceMack said:
Having homosexual ideation is not 'wrong', per the Catholic belief system. Engaging in the practice of homsexuality IS wrong, again...per the Catholic belief system. A religious school has the right to dictate the moral code their teachers are expected to follow. If they disagree, they have the right to seek employment elsewhere.
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They always have the right to seek employment elsewhere. What they shouldn't be is compelled to seek employment elsewhere.

I could see your point as being valid if Mr. Billard was actively endorsing a homosexual lifestyle within the classroom of a Catholic school. But he wasn't. He was just living his life.

Divorce is against the Catholic belief system as well. How much you want to bet there are divorced teachers on the faculty there who haven't been dismissed?
 
Cordelier said:
They always have the right to seek employment elsewhere. What they shouldn't be is compelled to seek employment elsewhere.

I could see your point as being valid if Mr. Billard was actively endorsing a homosexual lifestyle within the classroom of a Catholic school. But he wasn't. He was just living his life.

Divorce is against the Catholic belief system as well. How much you want to bet there are divorced teachers on the faculty there who haven't been dismissed?
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If there are that would be inconsistent as well. And he is free to live his life...he just isnt free to live his life in opposition to the Church's positions and remain employed. I suspect he will lose his case on appeal.
 
VanceMack said:
If there are that would be inconsistent as well. And he is free to live his life...he just isnt free to live his life in opposition to the Church's positions and remain employed. I suspect he will lose his case on appeal.
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If you hire on, the Church only gets to control your morality from the time you clock in until the time you clock out. What you do in your home life - so long as it's legal - isn't any of their business.... and it certainly isn't grounds for dismissal.
 
Cordelier said:
If you hire on, the Church only gets to control your morality from the time you clock in until the time you clock out. What you do in your home life - so long as it's legal - isn't any of their business.... and it certainly isn't grounds for dismissal.
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Actually, they might be able to fire you for being a stripper in your off hours. I don't think strippers are a protected class under the Civil Rights Act.

But Trump's conservative court ruled that LGBTQ is a protected class. I was surprised.
 
Amelia said:
Actually, they might be able to fire you for being a stripper in your off hours. I don't think strippers are a protected class under the Civil Rights Act.

But Trump's conservative court ruled that LGBTQ is a protected class. I was surprised.
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Is being a stripper against Catholic teaching? Sure, I wouldn't expect the Church to endorse it as an occupation..... but on the other hand, is the priest going to deny Communion to a stripper?
 
This is rather dangerous territory but this mess is largely created by the idea that one freedom means more than another.

The ultimate issue here is what did that teacher sign to work at a private religious based school system? (It is unlikely there was nothing signed stipulating some sort of ethical / moral standards that have alignment to the ideology of whatever church the school is under.)

It gets very dicey very quickly as this should not be the issue it is, but here we are…
 
justabubba said:
she believes the church should be able to fire those who do not ascribe to the church's beliefs
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Then let that school move to a country that allows discrimination under the umbrella of religion. In in the USA we have higher value. Let you wife know.
 
Cordelier said:
If you hire on, the Church only gets to control your morality from the time you clock in until the time you clock out. What you do in your home life - so long as it's legal - isn't any of their business.... and it certainly isn't grounds for dismissal.
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Not true. If you work for an organization that maintains certain moral positions, they have a right to fire you if you live in opposition to those values. You dont have to live them...but they dont have to continue your employment, nor should they.
 
VanceMack said:
Not true. If you work for an organization that maintains certain moral positions, they have a right to fire you if you live in opposition to those values. You dont have to live them...but they dont have to continue your employment, nor should they.
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A school is a different kind of organization, though. I know it's a sectarian organization.... but it still has to adhere to certain secular principles if it is to maintain it's state license to educate children.

Plus, like I said before, it undercuts their case if they fire Mr. Billard but retain Mrs. Smith in Home Ec., even after her husband left her and married a Blackjack dealer in Vegas.
 
Cordelier said:
If you hire on, the Church only gets to control your morality from the time you clock in until the time you clock out. What you do in your home life - so long as it's legal - isn't any of their business.... and it certainly isn't grounds for dismissal.
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Think about all the people who have lost jobs because of what they posted on social media.
 
VanceMack said:
Not true. If you work for an organization that maintains certain moral positions, they have a right to fire you if you live in opposition to those values. You dont have to live them...but they dont have to continue your employment, nor should they.
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Unless you're a priest...
 
NWRatCon said:
Unless you're a priest...
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Totally fair criticism...the Catholic church did despicable things by hiding and protecting their gay priests.

Irrelevant to the discussion...but fair attack.
 
justabubba said:
www.wbtv.com

‘I did nothing wrong.’ Gay teacher who lost job at Charlotte Catholic High wins lawsuit

The school and the Catholic Diocese of Charlotte violated workplace sex discrimination laws in firing the former drama teacher, Lonnie Billard, U.S. District Judge Max Cogburn Jr. ruled.
www.wbtv.com www.wbtv.com


my wife and i disagree about this case. she believes the church should be able to fire those who do not ascribe to the church's beliefs while i believe firing a person for their sexual inclinations is not unlike terminating them because of their race; neither is a result of the person's choosing

what are your thoughts about this?

should the matter be elevated to the supreme court so that the justices can render an opinion about which right is paramount?
Click to expand...
It's important that we don't have gay teachers in catholic schools because it could get in the way of the church's pedophilia issues.
 
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