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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds ... how will non-Americans feel?

Amelia

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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds in America's name. Trump has given Ergodan everything he wants. He has decimated our ability to gain trustworthy allies.

If Americans feel this way about what Trump has turned our country into, how will people in the Middle East feel? People who have better weapons and less reason for restraint than pissed off Americans sitting in our comfortable homes feel.

Trump has done so much damage to our national security. He has fortified the recruitment of the next generation of jihadists and criminal gangs on multiple continents with nothing to lose and every reason to hate us.
 

apdst

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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds in America's name. Trump has given Ergodan everything he wants. He has decimated our ability to gain trustworthy allies.

If Americans feel this way about what Trump has turned our country into, how will people in the Middle East feel? People who have better weapons and less reason for restraint than pissed off Americans sitting in our comfortable homes feel.

Trump has done so much damage to our national security. He has fortified the recruitment of the next generation of jihadists and criminal gangs on multiple continents with nothing to lose and every reason to hate us.
For the first time in history, the Leftists give a rat's ass about the Kurds. This is so fake. :lamo
 

chuckiechan

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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds in America's name. Trump has given Ergodan everything he wants. He has decimated our ability to gain trustworthy allies.

If Americans feel this way about what Trump has turned our country into, how will people in the Middle East feel? People who have better weapons and less reason for restraint than pissed off Americans sitting in our comfortable homes feel.

Trump has done so much damage to our national security. He has fortified the recruitment of the next generation of jihadists and criminal gangs on multiple continents with nothing to lose and every reason to hate us.
So, do you suggest we go in with out military and carve out a country for them? A bit of Iraq, a slice of Turkey, and portion of Syria, and dare the three countries to try and throw us off that hill?
 

Phys251

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So, do you suggest we go in with out military and carve out a country for them? A bit of Iraq, a slice of Turkey, and portion of Syria, and dare the three countries to try and throw us off that hill?
Why do you condone genocide?
 

Trump

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So, do you suggest we go in with out military and carve out a country for them? A bit of Iraq, a slice of Turkey, and portion of Syria, and dare the three countries to try and throw us off that hill?
maybe build a really big wall for em?
 

pragmatic

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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds in America's name. Trump has given Ergodan everything he wants. He has decimated our ability to gain trustworthy allies.

If Americans feel this way about what Trump has turned our country into, how will people in the Middle East feel? People who have better weapons and less reason for restraint than pissed off Americans sitting in our comfortable homes feel.

Trump has done so much damage to our national security. He has fortified the recruitment of the next generation of jihadists and criminal gangs on multiple continents with nothing to lose and every reason to hate us.
Rumor has it that a cease fire/de-escalation is currently in the works between the parties.

Sounds promising. Let's give it a couple of days and see how it turns out.
 

Amelia

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Rumor has it that a cease fire/de-escalation is currently in the works between the parties.

Sounds promising. Let's give it a couple of days and see how it turns out.

The cease fire is the Trump administration displacing the Kurds from their homes and handing Turkey the land they want without them having to even fight for it. And then Trump withdraws sanctions after the Kurds are sent packing.

That's the plan I read. Did you read anything different?


As I said, Trump giving Ergodan everything he wants, at less cost to Turkish forces than they would have had to pay if Trump hadn't handed it to them on a silver platter.
 

pragmatic

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The cease fire is the Trump administration displacing the Kurds from their homes and handing Turkey the land they want without them having to even fight for it. And then Trump withdraws sanctions after the Kurds are sent packing.

That's the plan I read. Did you read anything different?


As I said, Trump giving Ergodan everything he wants, at less cost to Turkish forces than they would have had to pay if Trump hadn't handed it to them on a silver platter.

Just going by some headlines i read on the topic. Weren't a lot of details but it certainly wasn't as bleak as the picture you are painting.

Where are/were you getting your information?
 

maxparrish

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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds in America's name. Trump has given Ergodan everything he wants. He has decimated our ability to gain trustworthy allies.

If Americans feel this way about what Trump has turned our country into, how will people in the Middle East feel? People who have better weapons and less reason for restraint than pissed off Americans sitting in our comfortable homes feel.

Trump has done so much damage to our national security. He has fortified the recruitment of the next generation of jihadists and criminal gangs on multiple continents with nothing to lose and every reason to hate us.
You may be a rare exception to the pervasive non-interventionist zeitgeist of the US "progressive" but assuming you are this would be "rich" coming from most anyone else on the anti-Trump left.

During and since the Vietnam war one of the immutable moral touchstones of the left has been opposition to intervention in other countries wars, and opposition to the funding of proxy forces to represent American interests. Be it in Vietnam, Panama, Afghanistan, the Persian Gulf War, or the Iraq War there is ONE consistent mantra: if it hurts America's enemies and helps the US and western security, resources, and strategic interests DON'T intervene and create "endless wars".

On the other hand, for the same left lobby when no American interests are directly, by all means (e.g. in Kosovo and Libya) then intervene.

Frankly, I am less than receptive to the cynical flip-flopping on the left, moving from scoffing at Romney that Russia is a threat in 2012 to anti-Russian hysteria in 2018. Nor am I convinced that the progressive left, who could not have cared less about the victims of the Vietnamese re-education camps, the victims of the Sandinista Regime in Nicaragua, the victims of the Chavezita-Maduro dictatorship in Venezuela, or Fidel Castro's victims in Cuba has an OUNCE of loyalty to any proxy group, such as the Kurds, that fought with and for mutual interests.

Mind you, my conservative and interventionist politics don't change depending on whose in office. I've always admired the Kurds and recognize them as deserving of self-determination of any regional ethnic group. I think Trump, as a paleo-conservative neo-isolationist, is often a fool and his latest needless blunder and blindness to Russia (among other autocrats) is inexcusable.

But then, unlike the vast majority of Trump haters, my position does not change depending on whose ox is gored.
 
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SonOfDaedalus

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So, do you suggest we go in with out military and carve out a country for them? A bit of Iraq, a slice of Turkey, and portion of Syria, and dare the three countries to try and throw us off that hill?
No, I suggest we don't stab our allies in the back. Where is the honor in that?
 

Drawdown

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I despise what the Trump administration has done to the Kurds in America's name. Trump has given Ergodan everything he wants. He has decimated our ability to gain trustworthy allies.

If Americans feel this way about what Trump has turned our country into, how will people in the Middle East feel? People who have better weapons and less reason for restraint than pissed off Americans sitting in our comfortable homes feel.

Trump has done so much damage to our national security. He has fortified the recruitment of the next generation of jihadists and criminal gangs on multiple continents with nothing to lose and every reason to hate us.
If we don't honor our commitment to our real Ally of 60 years--Turkey--then we are the ones who are not trustworthy, particularly when they are battling terrorists like the PKK that abducts children and presses them into becoming soldiers while also carrying out suicide bombings on civilian populations inside of Turkey.
 

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Rexedgar

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Just going by some headlines i read on the topic. Weren't a lot of details but it certainly wasn't as bleak as the picture you are painting.

Where are/were you getting your information?

Mike Pence pretty much stated what Amelia posted in the briefing given after the “negotiations.”
 

Felis Leo

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No, I suggest we don't stab our allies in the back. Where is the honor in that?
That is true. However, we are officially allied with Turkey, which is a sovereign state. We are not officially allied with the Kurds, who are a people spread across four countries (Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran). The whole point of an alliance is that you do not take the side of the enemies of your official allies over your official allies.

Now, I personally think we should dissolve the alliance with Turkey and seek to expel them from NATO and let them go to Russia as they seem to wish to do irrespective of the current conflict. And recognize the Armenian Genocide as a parting farewell.

But then, no one is going to hire me as a foreign policy strategist any time soon.
 

Amelia

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You may be a rare exception to the pervasive non-interventionist zeitgeist of the US "progressive" but assuming you are this would be "rich" coming from most anyone else on the anti-Trump left.

During and since the Vietnam war one of the immutable moral touchstones of the left has been opposition to intervention in other countries wars, and opposition to the funding of proxy forces to represent American interests. Be it in Vietnam, Panama, Afghanistan, the Persian Gulf War, or the Iraq War there is ONE consistent mantra: if it hurts America's enemies and helps the US and western security, resources, and strategic interests DON'T intervene and create "endless wars".

On the other hand, for the same left lobby when no American interests are directly, by all means (e.g. in Kosovo and Libya) then intervene.

Frankly, I am less than receptive to the cynical flip-flopping on the left, moving from scoffing at Romney that Russia is a threat in 2012 to anti-Russian hysteria in 2018. Nor am I convinced that the progressive left, who could not have cared less about the victims of the Vietnamese re-education camps, the victims of the Sandinista Regime in Nicaragua, the victims of the Chavezita-Maduro dictatorship in Venezuela, or Fidel Castro's victims in Cuba has an OUNCE of loyalty to any proxy group, such as the Kurds, that fought with and for mutual interests.

Mind you, my conservative and interventionist politics don't change depending on whose in office. I've always admired the Kurds and recognize them as deserving of self-determination of any regional ethnic group. I think Trump, as a paleo-conservative neo-isolationist, is often a fool and his latest needless blunder and blindness to Russia (among other autocrats) is inexcusable.

But then, unlike the vast majority of Trump haters, my position does not change depending on whose ox is gored.


I was a Bushian Neo-Con. I voted for McCain though I was pissed at how Huckabee voters joined forces with McCain to squeeze Romney out in 2008. I voted for Romney in 2012. I didn't leave the GOP until they became the party of Trump. Yes, I am anti-Trump. There is no reason to be pro-Trump. He manages to find the worst, most treacherous, most divisive way to do everything. Don't deny that. That's his M.O. and he and Trumpsters are proud of it most of the time. The good things he might have been able to do, he screws up with his proudly ignorant combination of wrecking-ball strategies and cozying up to dictators. He has been a priceless gift to Putin, Assad, Ergodan and Kim. And he is providing daily propaganda for the recruiting arms of Middle East terrorists and Central America crime cartels and increasing the numbers of desperate people for them to take advantage of.

Yes, I despise Trump. So I ask again, how do you think the people feel who aren't in this country and have no reason to ever try to give Trump the benefit of the doubt so that family conversations go more smoothly at Thanksgiving? Trump is delivering fuel to everyone who hates us. He is making us more vulnerable at home and abroad.
 

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If we don't honor our commitment to our real Ally of 60 years--Turkey--then we are the ones who are not trustworthy, particularly when they are battling terrorists like the PKK that abducts children and presses them into becoming soldiers while also carrying out suicide bombings on civilian populations inside of Turkey.

You’ve not been keeping up with current events.........
 

Amelia

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Mach

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Looks like House Republicans despised it too.
The resolution to condemn Trump's action against the Kurds and ultimately U.S. interests, had the House vote 354-60 with bi-partisan support.
That 60 likely only held out because they fear voters in their districts are just too anti-Trump.

It surprisingly was blocked by Republicans from being worked on..Rand Paul (and Mitch) claimed that condemning this horrific blunder by our president is simply "petty partisanship".
All Republicans do in the Senate is block, it's a joke.

That's right, Kurds dying in an entirely avoidable disaster of Trump's making? Petty partisanship to criticize that. Maybe the Senate will do on better, but for now, impotent as usual.
 

GreatNews2night

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Frankly, I am less than receptive to the cynical flip-flopping on the left, moving from scoffing at Romney that Russia is a threat in 2012 to anti-Russian hysteria in 2018.
Admirable, bravo! Very correct. I'm thrilled that you think like this, because I'm quite certain (I hope) that you are also less than receptive to the cynical flip-flopping on the right, moving from all the anti-communism, all the equaling of the Soviet Union and Russia for decades as the Devil incarnate and the utmost enemies of America whom you deemed as fueled by the misguided left, to the pro-Russia hysteria of 2016, 17, 18, and 19. In the past, if any Democrat showed one tenth of the good will Trump shows towards Russia and their leader, you'd all be screaming bloody murder. But when it's your cult leader who does it, it's all A OK. So, see, the left doesn't have any monopoly on cynical flip-flopping. Funny how two can play this game, huh?
 

GreatNews2night

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The worst part of this, of course, is the loss of life. It's when a female Kurd leader is repeatedly raped and killed by Turkish soldiers, as it happened on day one of this debacle.
But the second worst part is squandering any possible good will an ally would want to show towards America.
So, the Kurds help us in our fight against ISIS. They actually take upon themselves to go there and kick the ass of ISIS, so that we don't need to put our own boots on the ground. Next thing, our president turns his back to them and allows them to be slaughtered.

What will any future prospective ally think, in this protracted and difficult fight against Islamic terrorism (of which of course we haven't seen the last chapter) which threatens our national security and threatens American lives?

"Oh, f... the Americans. We can't trust them. So, we won't help them. If they can't stand by their allies and keep their promises, they don't deserve our help."

This will have lasting consequences, and American lives will be lost in the future (near and remote) because of this blunder.

And it's funny that even the Republican party sees it. But here, the pro-Trump crowd won't acknowledge it, and they will try to blame the left for it, somehow. Crazy.

See, we need local allies to fight the non-State Islamic terrorism. Those are the guys who know the terrain, have the intelligence info, speak the local language, etc. If we can't count on local allies, we won't be able to curb the threat. Americans will be killed.

That's what Trump's action will bring about.

Even Lindsey Graham, one of the most ferocious Trump sycophants in Congress, sees it. Why can't the right wing posters here see it? Mystery. Or not. I mean, cults of personality have a way to cause brainwash.
 
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GreatNews2night

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Looks like House Republicans despised it too.
The resolution to condemn Trump's action against the Kurds and ultimately U.S. interests, had the House vote 354-60 with bi-partisan support.
Trump is pissing off even the Republican sycophants who had been applauding him. Beware, Trump. Keep it up, and you'll end up impeached by the House and removed from office by the Senate.
I never thought it would happen.
Now, the possibility is no longer zero. Still small, but not zero.
 

chuckiechan

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No, I suggest we don't stab our allies in the back. Where is the honor in that?
Do you realize Turkey could walk in to out US camp unopposed, unless the troops there chose to die there?

And what was the plan for ISIS prisoners? Hold them until they die of old age? You passion is admirable but of no use without solutions.
 

apdst

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The cease fire is the Trump administration displacing the Kurds from their homes and handing Turkey the land they want without them having to even fight for it. And then Trump withdraws sanctions after the Kurds are sent packing.

That's the plan I read. Did you read anything different?


As I said, Trump giving Ergodan everything he wants, at less cost to Turkish forces than they would have had to pay if Trump hadn't handed it to them on a silver platter.
That land belongs to Syria, not the Kurds.

I mean damn! You people actually think the Kurds have their own country...lol
 

Condor060

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The cease fire is the Trump administration displacing the Kurds from their homes and handing Turkey the land they want without them having to even fight for it. And then Trump withdraws sanctions after the Kurds are sent packing.

That's the plan I read. Did you read anything different?


As I said, Trump giving Ergodan everything he wants, at less cost to Turkish forces than they would have had to pay if Trump hadn't handed it to them on a silver platter.
Yeah, like you know. What is this? Story time?
 
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