How would you feel about this?

[ReverendHellh0und]

This is exactly the type of asinine attitude that having discussions with teens about these issues counters. When I hear **** like this vomitted forth, it makes me much more compliant to the idea of this discussion being had in schools with more frequency.

my over the top hyperbolic sarcasm did not transfer through the interwebz well. :lol:


I do think it's inappropriate to discuss ones medical conditions with the students, especial one such as an elective procedure that the parents may or may not approve of. :shrug:

 

[Redress]

my over the top hyperbolic sarcasm did not transfer through the interwebz well. :lol:


I do think it's inappropriate to discuss ones medical conditions with the students, especial one such as an elective procedure that the parents may or may not approve of. :shrug:

If she had done it this way, would you still disapprove?

"Well, I just found out I am pregnant. I made some bad decisions, and now I have to make a very important, right decision. Should I get an abortion, should I have the baby and give it up for adoption, should I have the baby and try and raise it as a single mom? What do you think the right choice would be if you had this happen to you, and how would it affect your life?"

 

[jallman]

my over the top hyperbolic sarcasm did not transfer through the interwebz well. :lol:

Probably true. But the sad thing is, it's not sarcasm to a lot of people. There are a lot of guys who would say this type of thing and mean it.

 

[MaggieD]

If she had done it this way, would you still disapprove?

"Well, I just found out I am pregnant. I made some bad decisions, and now I have to make a very important, right decision. Should I get an abortion, should I have the baby and give it up for adoption, should I have the baby and try and raise it as a single mom? What do you think the right choice would be if you had this happen to you, and how would it affect your life?"

That'd be the way I'd hope this scenerio would play out. And why doesn't it play out in every classroom in America? Real or not real.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

If she had done it this way, would you still disapprove?

"Well, I just found out I am pregnant. I made some bad decisions, and now I have to make a very important, right decision. Should I get an abortion, should I have the baby and give it up for adoption, should I have the baby and try and raise it as a single mom? What do you think the right choice would be if you had this happen to you, and how would it affect your life?"

I don't think she should be seeking out the advice of 14 year olds on this matter. Furthermore, I think many of these kids may not want to divulge what they would do as its a very personal matter and being put on a spotlight seem well, nothing to do with learning, which is what we are supposed to be doing at school...

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Probably true. But the sad thing is, it's not sarcasm to a lot of people. There are a lot of guys who would say this type of thing and mean it.

I figured when you saw me use the term "jezebel" it would be obvious.

anyway we call those people "prudes". :thumbs:

 

[BDBoop]

If she had done it this way, would you still disapprove?

"Well, I just found out I am pregnant. I made some bad decisions, and now I have to make a very important, right decision. Should I get an abortion, should I have the baby and give it up for adoption, should I have the baby and try and raise it as a single mom? What do you think the right choice would be if you had this happen to you, and how would it affect your life?"

You said it very well, but I'd be sitting in world history going "erm, que?? Seriously? Because this has - what exactly to do with the class I'm in?"

 

[liblady]

If she had done it this way, would you still disapprove?

"Well, I just found out I am pregnant. I made some bad decisions, and now I have to make a very important, right decision. Should I get an abortion, should I have the baby and give it up for adoption, should I have the baby and try and raise it as a single mom? What do you think the right choice would be if you had this happen to you, and how would it affect your life?"

i still think it's highly inappropriate. the discussion should only be had in a hypothetical way.

 

[Redress]

I don't think she should be seeking out the advice of 14 year olds on this matter. Furthermore, I think many of these kids may not want to divulge what they would do as its a very personal matter and being put on a spotlight seem well, nothing to do with learning, which is what we are supposed to be doing at school...

The intention in my scenario was not that she was seeking out advice, but making kids think about the real world repercussions of their actions. To me that would be far more effective than most sex-ed/abstinence program, because it is having the kids do the thinking. You can tell kids things a 100 times, and they will hear it but it won't sink in. If you force them to figure out the repercussions themselves, it would be more effective. The idea is not to tell them what is right or wrong, but to show them the kinds of things they will face if they put themselves in that situation.

Note: I can see and understand why some parents would not want their child to be involved in such a discussion at school, but to my mind(and I note I am not a parent, so maybe not the best to comment on this) we do a disservice to our kids when we protect them too much.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

The intention in my scenario was not that she was seeking out advice, but making kids think about the real world repercussions of their actions. To me that would be far more effective than most sex-ed/abstinence program, because it is having the kids do the thinking. You can tell kids things a 100 times, and they will hear it but it won't sink in. If you force them to figure out the repercussions themselves, it would be more effective. The idea is not to tell them what is right or wrong, but to show them the kinds of things they will face if they put themselves in that situation.

I still think using ones own state of being and telling the students of her choice, influences and leads the conversation in a biased way, wether intentionally or not.

Note: I can see and understand why some parents would not want their child to be involved in such a discussion at school, but to my mind(and I note I am not a parent, so maybe not the best to comment on this) we do a disservice to our kids when we protect them too much.

It's not about "protecting" them.... It's about what is appropriate and what is personal to me.. if you have a health class and the discussion came up. don't care. but this to me crosses the line a bit.

 

[BDBoop]

Note: I can see and understand why some parents would not want their child to be involved in such a discussion at school, but to my mind(and I note I am not a parent, so maybe not the best to comment on this) we do a disservice to our kids when we protect them too much.

Only because it's a boundary issue.

What class would this discussion be taking place in?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Only because it's a boundary issue.

What class would this discussion be taking place in?

I don't think this subject should ever be in school. I do not see a commonly taught subject where it would be legitimately brought up. Not even sex ed really applies to this one, unless a student asks the question, than the teacher should stick to verifiable facts only.

 

[Redress]

I still think using ones own state of being and telling the students of her choice, influences and leads the conversation in a biased way, wether intentionally or not.


It's not about "protecting" them.... It's about what is appropriate and what is personal to me.. if you have a health class and the discussion came up. don't care. but this to me crosses the line a bit.

I can respect and understand that. If I can ask another followup: How do you think sex-ed pregnancy prevention should be discussed in schools, if at all?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I can respect and understand that. If I can ask another followup: How do you think sex-ed pregnancy prevention should be discussed in schools, if at all?

I think that "health class" we used to have should cover it amongst other topics regarding cause and effect of said choices.


I would prefer we leave it up to the parents, but obviously, many have failed here.

 

[Redress]

I think that "health class" we used to have should cover it amongst other topics regarding cause and effect of said choices.


I would prefer we leave it up to the parents, but obviously, many have failed here.

I don't think it is entirely the parents fault either. I think some messages are just not as effective coming from parents.

 

[BDBoop]

Mr. and Mrs. Bo Jo Jones (1971) (TV) This is a pretty good movie - ancient. But I thought it did a good job of getting the point across.

I think as long as kids are coming up pregnant, they need to not just know how to avoid it, but what all their options are once a pregnancy has begun.

 

[RightinNYC]

If she had done it this way, would you still disapprove?

"Well, I just found out I am pregnant. I made some bad decisions, and now I have to make a very important, right decision. Should I get an abortion, should I have the baby and give it up for adoption, should I have the baby and try and raise it as a single mom? What do you think the right choice would be if you had this happen to you, and how would it affect your life?"

My problem with this is that it gives her class the impression that their arguments or votes will have an impact on what she decides to do. Should the teacher end up getting the abortion, I can imagine it being very traumatic on the class either way - the kids who argued for the abortion feel responsible and the kids who argued against it feel that they didn't argue hard enough to save the fetus.

I don't have a problem with discussion of abortion per se, but when you personalize it like that, it needlessly amplifies the individual connection to the decision without a corresponding improvement in the value of the discussion.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Yes.



You apparently led a sheltered childhood. If you'll pardon me for saying so, I believe your parents did you a disservice. Your mind and your heart may not have been prepared for such matters, but your body most likely was-- and that is a precarious position for a young adult to be in, especially a young woman.

I might have lived a sheltered life - it depends on where you are and what lifestyles you're looking at. . . I can assure you that many rural and city children/teens don't have the concept of 'abortion' - because it's not really a subject that people talk about, period. It's taboo by and large.

In all of my life I have never actually heard *anyone* discuss "abortion" in a conversation, at work - or otherwise. The only time I've engaged in this or been keen to it is online in debates and on the news where politics is being hashed out.

So I'm betting I'm with the majority in the ignorance of abortion at the age of 14.

 

[Josie]

I'm right there with you, Aunt Spiker.

 

[Ikari]

Your 14-year-old daughter comes home from school and says her unmarried teacher told the class she was pregnant and contemplating an abortion. What would be your thoughts about this?

This isn't a bait thread. I'm asking because of our abortion debates--AND a new question about teachers and their behaviors.

I don't know if I'd be offended or take it up with the school...probably not. But at the same accord, I don't see that as business of her class and she should have kept it to herself.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

They see it as they mature. Soldiers see bodies blown to bits soon enough - it's always too soon to see **** like that. There's a lot of ugliness in the world, I'm sure they will find their fair share as they go.

And they need to be prepared for that. They need to learn to be tough when they are young, when they still have the guidance and comfort of their parents to fall back upon.

By the way, that thinking you're exhibiting? That's why my dad thought it was okay to give me hands on sex ed.

That's a cheap shot and I shouldn't even dignify it with a response. Children do not need to be exposed to sexual contact in order to be capable of handling it as adults. Sex is not a trauma that people need to learn to endure, it is a sacrament that if handled responsibly can be one of the greatest parts of a person's life. Your father did not do what he did out of a concern for your sexual wellbeing, but for his own sexual gratification, and it was not the act of a loving and responsible parent as I am advocating-- it is the act of a goddamned sexual deviant.

Let kids be kids for as long as they are kids. Life will take them the rest of the way.

It's that kind of thinking that leads to kids being kids until well into their twenties. When do you think children should grow up, and how do you expect them to magically become adults without learning how?

 

[BDBoop]

And they need to be prepared for that. They need to learn to be tough when they are young, when they still have the guidance and comfort of their parents to fall back upon.



That's a cheap shot and I shouldn't even dignify it with a response. Children do not need to be exposed to sexual contact in order to be capable of handling it as adults. Sex is not a trauma that people need to learn to endure, it is a sacrament that if handled responsibly can be one of the greatest parts of a person's life. Your father did not do what he did out of a concern for your sexual wellbeing, but for his own sexual gratification, and it was not the act of a loving and responsible parent as I am advocating-- it is the act of a goddamned sexual deviant.



It's that kind of thinking that leads to kids being kids until well into their twenties. When do you think children should grow up, and how do you expect them to magically become adults without learning how?

That's not a cheap shot, that's my life. I stand by everything I said. Are you in contact with any kids these days? Blowjobs at 12? Yeah. They're not making it much past 12. They are learning far too much far too soon, and I don't know who these ignoramuses are you refer to.

I know why he did what he did - I also know why he SAID he did what he did. Left to my own devices, I would have learned in due time. Unfortunately, I was raped at 18 so that was me being left to my own devices.

God, life can be a scramble.

Back to subject. My daughter is 29 now. She went to Christian school and home-schooled probably 2/3 of her 13 years. She was far from ignorant or sheltered, simply because I was always open and honest with her.

Your first comment - they need to be prepared for it. That's bull****. **** happens all the way through life, and there's no preparing for it. All we have is whatever strength and inner fortitude we were blessed with between nature and nurture. We don't unleash the insanity of the world on our youth so they can be prepared for any and all eventualities. That's what LIFE is. We learn as we go.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

That's not a cheap shot, that's my life. I stand by everything I said. Are you in contact with any kids these days? Blowjobs at 12?

I was giving blowjobs at a Hell of a lot younger than twelve. You used your life experience to take a cheap shot at me and my beliefs-- my life experiences-- by comparing me to a child molester.

Your first comment - they need to be prepared for it. That's bull****. **** happens all the way through life, and there's no preparing for it. All we have is whatever strength and inner fortitude we were blessed with between nature and nurture.

Yes, nurture. How do you think that we develop fortitude? We learn what we are capable of enduring by enduring it. It is better that we learn this young, in the warm embrace of our families, than when we're finally left alone in the world for the first time. The world is brutal and it will ****ing eat people who aren't prepared to deal with it. The lucky ones survive long enough to learn the hard way, through personal experience, what they should have learned by example and observation as children.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

And they need to be prepared for that. They need to learn to be tough when they are young, when they still have the guidance and comfort of their parents to fall back upon.



That's a cheap shot and I shouldn't even dignify it with a response. Children do not need to be exposed to sexual contact in order to be capable of handling it as adults. Sex is not a trauma that people need to learn to endure, it is a sacrament that if handled responsibly can be one of the greatest parts of a person's life. Your father did not do what he did out of a concern for your sexual wellbeing, but for his own sexual gratification, and it was not the act of a loving and responsible parent as I am advocating-- it is the act of a goddamned sexual deviant.



It's that kind of thinking that leads to kids being kids until well into their twenties. When do you think children should grow up, and how do you expect them to magically become adults without learning how?

Knowing about abortion (or not knowing) isn't going to hinder someone's development :shrug:
I don't consider it a 'need to know to mature' thing at all. . . nor does knowing about it make you an adult - vise versa.

It's a tragic, sick part of life that people should only *have* to know about if it's personal (they or someone they know well deals with it).

 

[BDBoop]

I was giving blowjobs at a Hell of a lot younger than twelve. You used your life experience to take a cheap shot at me and my beliefs-- my life experiences-- by comparing me to a child molester.



Yes, nurture. How do you think that we develop fortitude? We learn what we are capable of enduring by enduring it. It is better that we learn this young, in the warm embrace of our families, than when we're finally left alone in the world for the first time. The world is brutal and it will ****ing eat people who aren't prepared to deal with it. The lucky ones survive long enough to learn the hard way, through personal experience, what they should have learned by example and observation as children.

I did NOT compare you to a child molester. I said that particular line of reasoning was used against me. Internalize much?

We're going to have to disagree. You are doing a disservice to a great many young men and women who lived life and reached adulthood without being a bunch of sheltered sissies. The assumption that most young people are not adults when they become adults is an insult to not only them, but their parents.