How was Biden's speech an explanation on Afghanistan?

[Chomsky]

This this and this . .


It was VERY good IMO considering circumstances and I see the blame of this falling 75% bush and the admin at that time and 25% of every admin after that.

Yep. Agreed.

So do we give Biden 25%? Or, 100%? I can't believe he did it!

 

[it's just me]

Rate Biden's speech on Afghanistan

Now there's a dishonest poll....

 

[Cardinal]

I answered your question. You just don't like the answer. And evidence?? YOU have no evidence. All you have is your partisan defense mechanism kicking in to its alert, "criticism of Biden and big government. Respond immediately." Thanks!!

You asked questions. Research them for the answers.

 

[Higgins86]

Yep. Agreed.

So do we give Biden 25%? Or, 100%? I can't believe he did it!

how much blame do you put on the American voters , British, Canadian etc? Did we put enough pressure on our governments in the last 20 years?

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Maybe this will make people think twice before attempting to pathetically rehabilitate George Warcriminal Bush

 

[AGENT J]

Yep. Agreed.

So do we give Biden 25%? Or, 100%? I can't believe he did it!

For actually doing it . . and fully pulling out . . . . . hmmmm . . . i guess i give him 90% and <gasp> Trump 10%

Its a horrendous situation, and i fell horrible for the people that are undoubtedly going to suffer because of this but what is the alternative. Geographically if the people there arent going to do what they need to do then what can we do.

Hopefully we can stay out . . but i wouldn't be surprised if somehow we end up back there

 

[AGENT J]

Maybe this will make people think twice before attempting to pathetically rehabilitate George Warcriminal Bush

LOL I agree but the reality is, I doubt Bush finds he recent up tick in positive or at least improved views if not for how bad Donnie was.

 

[Chomsky]

This family are amazing. Husband moved family here and then went back to contract work in Kabul, with the allied forces, doing security. Brutal job!
Mom here most of the time alone, with FOUR little kids. We adopted them all.
Now husband has been back with his family since last year. He picked a good time to not re-up.my

My heart does go out to them, it really does. But unfortunately, twent years was enough in my book!

They can call us "dumb Polaks", but it's a honor, because our hearty and stoic people refused to stop fighting with shovels.

Haha! There's nothing tougher (and more stubborn) than a Pole! And nothing more Catholic, too! It was Catholicism that kept the Poles united after the War through the U.S.S.R years. And it was their stubborn toughness that precipitated the fall of the U.S.S.R. Once Lech Welesa did his thing on the Gdansk docks, the whole thing fell apart!

Welesa & Pope John Paul II. Two hero's of the '80's. Both proud Poles!

 

[BrotherFease]

I liked it. His main argument was clear as day: Not our problem anymore. If we send more troops into Afghanistan, we're simply going to get more dead and injured American soldiers and waste more money, fighting for a country that's not willing to defend itself. It's a depressing point, but a correct one.

 

[Chomsky]

For actually doing it . . and fully pulling out . . . . . hmmmm . . . i guess i give him 90% and <gasp> Trump 10%

Its a horrendous situation, and i fell horrible for the people that are undoubtedly going to suffer because of this but what is the alternative. Geographically if the people there arent going to do what they need to do then what can we do.

Hopefully we can stay out . . but i wouldn't be surprised if somehow we end up back there

That's my fear, but I doubt our Commander-In-Chief would do it.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Lame and contained a lot of blame shifting. To much dedicated to restating the (obvious) what and too little addressing the FUBAR how.

 

[Acadia]

My heart does go out to them, it really does. But unfortunately, twent years was enough in my book!



Haha! There's nothing tougher (and more stubborn) than a Pole! And nothing more Catholic, too! It was Catholicism that kept the Poles united after the War through the U.S.S.R years. And it was their stubborn toughness that precipitated the fall of the U.S.S.R. Once Lech Welesa did his thing on the Gdansk docks, the whole thing fell apart!

Welesa & Pope John Paul II. Two hero's of the '80's. Both proud Poles!

Yes!

 

[Chagos]

What In particular did you disagree with?

Not that you asked ME, but I'll pile in anyway.

1) The silly claim that all of it is a binary decision, IOW either endless war or ending it all in one big whoosh.

That's BS.

For how long were US troops and British troops stationed in Germany without anyone making such a claim. Okay, admittedly it never got to armed conflict of any significance but things got pretty close a couple of times.

What's the deal on patrolling off the Somali coast and beyond?

KFOR in Kosovo?

Mali?

Just to name a couple of examples.

2) The worst claim was that the Afghan army refused to fight.

They fought for twenty years and most of combat on the ground was conducted by them. With estimated losses of life near twenty times that of ALL coalition forces.

Yes with support in logistics, intelligence and air power from mainly the US and Britain, but still.

So, announce taking all of that away and you expect them to do the Alamo or a Custer?

The only two remaining coalition forces of any substance (Britain way ahead but then Germany) packed their bags the minute the US was going to leave. Prudently.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Well, it's refreshing to hear a human being take responsibility for something. I thought that had gone out of style. The buck has stopped with Obama or Hillary or Pelosi for as long as I can remember.

 

[Dans La Lune]

It was a good speech but I don't agree with his conclusion. Upholding democracy in Afghanistan was and is worth American lives. Millions of women were counting on it.

I hate when warhawks hide beyond the pretense of a noble sentiment.

 

[AGENT J]

That's my fear, but I doubt our Commander-In-Chief would do it.

Well thats the catch right . .
even if we needed to go back (for some sorta justified reason) Biden isn't going to do it now, he can't barring a direct attack to the continental US and direct factual proof it came from there.

Some other Commander might though

 

[RealityNow]

Biden's Speech was Smart and Intelligent, He was smart enough not get on TV right away talking just to be talking, he spent his time gathering information and once gathered, he then gave his speech to the people. That's the dignity and integrity we expect in a President.

We didn't need some random lip flapper, talking just to be talking and slinging out a bunch of belligerent dribble. Thank Goodness, Biden did not do that!!!

Now, the Media should shut up with all the if this, and if that drama stupidity. The Media is INSANE... spinning drama for the sake of drams. Any Soldier who fought there, should know the reason they continued to fight was to "Give The Afghan People a fighting chance to build the nation they wanted. 380,000 of their Soldiers were Trained, Their Government was protected while they establish themselves, women got a chance to go to schools open business and work, and much else was given to them to help them stand on their own, including Military Weapons and Equipment and 20 yrs of service and protections to Give them the means to build stability.

It was time to leave. The Afghans simply did not have the will to want to maintain what they they were given,

• The General's Failed The Troops and the Troops failed their Afghan People, and the Afghan Government Failed The Nation and Its People.)

There was never a perfect time to leave, but there is the time to leave when they had been given so much and trained so long and their government protected for so long.
The Failure is 100% on Afghan Military and Afghan Government, and the Afghan People who did not rally to come together to support sustaining what they had been given and the protections they received to help them stabilize.

• 20 yrs is a long time to provide such extensive help and assistance.

Any American Military Person should be proud of what they achieved in these regard over 20 yrs. There is nothing to be angry, upset about, or ashame of. They performed a very good long term deed to give the people so much opportunity.
They could not control, nor determine the hearts and minds of the Afghan people, but our military men and women gave the Afghan people 20 yrs of protections and service to achieve stability if they truly had wanted to sustain it themselves.


So, don't get caught up in the Drama Games of the Media... they will spin it for drama's sake because drama means "advertising revenue" and for the reporters they seek notoriety and fame for continues to inflame a situation that is purely the fault and result created by the Afghan people.

Facts are already in real time presence, the Afghan Military gave up their weapons and refused to fight to protect their nation, the government abdicated their responsibility and chose their planned exit and left the people with no information and demoralized, because their own military members did not uphold the duty they said they would.

The media can spin it 10 million ways, and people get can get on these website and spin it 10 million more ways... but those are the simple facts.

See Previous Commentary before Biden's Speech...

 

[ecofarm]

I hate when warhawks hide beyond the pretense of a noble sentiment.

You believe war is only for killing brown people, huh?

 

[jaypatriot]

You've given absolutely zero indication that you heard anything he said. More likely is that if you did actually watch the speech, you were muttering "Stupid Biden, shut your stupid face" to yourself the whole time.

Says you.
He was defending the indefensible.
So he chose to get out. Good, get out.
But don't let tens of thousands of U.S. supporters stay behind to be executed.
And all those weapons an vehicles turned over to the Taliban.
The optics are going to be disastrous.
I heard what he said and it was pathetic. Blame the Afghans for not defending themselves and blame Trump
for entering into a meaningless agreement with the Taliban which they failed to comply with the agreement.
And, of course, he had to blame Trump because he had to tell the people it was not all his fault.

 

[The AntiDonald]

It was callous.

He said the Afghan people lost the will to fight for their country and gave up.

Such a cruel statement. Really pathetic.

One things for sure. He didn't lie about that. That's exactly what happened.

 

[Cardinal]

Says you.
He was defending the indefensible.
So he chose to get out. Good, get out.
But don't let tens of thousands of U.S. supporters stay behind to be executed.
And all those weapons an vehicles turned over to the Taliban.
The optics are going to be disastrous.
I heard what he said and it was pathetic. Blame the Afghans for not defending themselves and blame Trump
for entering into a meaningless agreement with the Taliban which they failed to comply with the agreement.
And, of course, he had to blame Trump because he had to tell the people it was not all his fault.

Out of curiosity, have you answered any of the ten million questions in this thread asking you if the Afghans laying down their arms for the Taliban was inaccurate? Or have you decided that the "He blamed the Afghans" line sounds good to you so you're just going to repeat it ad nauseam?

 

[RealityNow]

Says you.
He was defending the indefensible.
So he chose to get out. Good, get out.
But don't let tens of thousands of U.S. supporters stay behind to be executed.
And all those weapons an vehicles turned over to the Taliban.
The optics are going to be disastrous.
I heard what he said and it was pathetic. Blame the Afghans for not defending themselves and blame Trump
for entering into a meaningless agreement with the Taliban which they failed to comply with the agreement.
And, of course, he had to blame Trump because he had to tell the people it was not all his fault.

You evidently did not listen to the speech. you are too busy worried about 'trying to protect Trump".
All those weapons were given to equip the Afghan Military, they failed to protect them.
Yes, the Afghan people are to blame when 380,000 had been trained and for 20 yrs the government protected and the Afghan people just gave it all up themselves.
Trumps agreement said nothing about the Taliban not taking over, it was about the Taliban not harboring Terrorist Factions as they did in the past, Trump failed to include the Afghan Government in their deliberations with the Taliban. The Afghan Government could have demanded to be part of any talks and deliberations with the Taliban..

Read... Comprehend what is well documented... and it might give you a better perspective for understanding Biden's Speech.

 

[Logophile]

You asked questions. Research them for the answers.

If I have phrased any quasi-broad questions directly to you, assuredly, they were rhetoric. If I have asked questions of you relegated to the specifics, I've researched them. I don't like the answers. But they are what they are. I'm tired of undeclared wars and their ultimately result, which is untold suffering, the operative word being "untold." Thanks!!

 

[Mach]

To be fair it was kind of a shit set of poll choices.

 

[Juks]

Is he wrong, though?

It is more complicated than that. I tried to find a thread I read earlier today where someone posted an analyses article on why the Taliban could take the country so fast. The analysis just scraped the surface but it was good enough. It took up the problem with the low moral among the Afghan forces, where the families send one son to the government forces to fight and the other to the Taliban forces to ensure security for both sons. (feel free to give me a link to that thread, I can't find it)


But it failed to mention that this has been not just known information to the US and the rest of the world for as long as the US been in Afghanistan. It has been an if not conscious so at least supported tactic of the US politics in and for Afghanistan. The key words in that article was: In Afghanistan the clan / group affiliation is important: Taliban mainly consist of the country's largest ethnic group, Pashtuns the same group as the president that US installed. Northern Afghanistan has historically been the Taliban's weak point. In the north, Tajiks and Uzbeks are the largest ethnic groups. In the 1990s, there was the resistance movement called the Northern Alliance . In the run-up to the US withdrawal, the Taliban have had plenty of time to change their strategy in the north. While President Ghani has opposed the warlords who made up the Northern Alliance (and not recruited anyone from this area for the military), the Taliban has adjusted their strategy to include to stop mobilization of resistance in the north and worked to bring in other minorities, such as Uzbeks, Tajiks and Hazaras in their movement.


The reason for the presidents working against these warlords is because the previous presidents before the Taliban took power came from the Northern Alliance, the latest being Rabbani . Since 1992 he was the internationally recognized president of the state formation called the Islamic State of Afghanistan. In 1996, he was overthrown by the Taliban who took power in the country, but Rabbani's government continued to represent Afghanistan in the FN. Immediately after the invasion, the United States began actively seeking leaders who could take control of the country. Rabbani was still Afghanistan's president in the eyes of the outside world, but the United States wanted to find another candidate. There was some support for the reinstatement of the ex-king who lived in exile but has now returned to the country. At the end of 2001, US got Afghan leaders, Taliban opponents to agree to form an interim government under Hamid Karzai, the son of a Pashtun tribal chief who had been part of the king's government. After accusation of voterfrauds in the 2014 election US, instead of making sure to implement an election without voterfraud, they through negotiations led by John Kerry, appointed Ghani as president.

So the situation with the Afghan military was not just known to the US, it was a partly supported development during these 20 years of occupation.

To in that situation, just pack up and leave without any negotiations, advance warning to allies and so on. What amazes me is the lack of preparation, the fact is that one way or the other US knew what was going to happen. In Bidens speech there were a number of justifications for the withdrawal but few answers regarding the criticism of how the evacuation took place, He blamed the previous Afghan government for the situation. The only responsibility he admitted was a miscalculation that he expected the Afghan government to be in place and fight the Taliban during the evacuation. He does not take any responsibility for the situation. It is just cynical and lack of care for the Afghan civil population. The very excuse for starting the war in the first place. The biggest losers of the US policies in this case are the women.


His speech didn’t work for me it just pissed me of.