How To Talk To Anti Gun People

[RF667799]

Don’t misunderstand me, I’m just questioning the data.
I’ve carried a .45 daily for 18 years
I agree with your logic

I don't really "carry" at all, and haven't since my Army days. Nevertheless, that is my logic.

 

[SMTA]

I don't really "carry" at all, and haven't since my Army days. Nevertheless, that is my logic.

Respect for the Army days - thank you!

 

[SMTA]

Actually not true.

In particular, a 2013 study ordered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and conducted by The National Academies’ Institute of Medicine and National Research Council reported that, “Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence”:




"According to U.S. Justice Department victimization studies analyzed by Kleck, for both robbery and assault, victims who used guns for protection were less likely either to be attacked or injured than victims who responded in any other way, including those who did not resist at all; and victims who resisted robbers with guns were less likely to lose their property. A follow-up study of rape found that using a gun or knife for protection reduced the likelihood of a completed rape, and using a gun reduced the likelihood of injury to close to zero. "
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1745-9125.2004.tb00539.x

"Citing four separate studies between 1988-2004, the assessment from the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council says crime victims who use guns in self-defense have consistently lower injury rates than victims who use other strategies to protect themselves (other strategies include stalling, calling the police or using weapons such as knives or baseball bats)."

Kleck is a heavily biased source that does not have any credibility
Statements that you reference are just words, not hard, verifiable data

 

[RF667799]

Respect for the Army days - thank you!

Not at all. It was my pleasure...most days.

 

[SMTA]

Not at all. It was my pleasure...most days.

Give yourself credit - you risked your life
What I have is because of people like you
You’re a badass

 

[RF667799]

Give yourself credit - you risked your life
What I have is because of people like you
You’re a badass

No, the risk to my life was probably no greater than yours, and no greater than in my days as a heavy equipment operator or an oil well roughneck.

I had friends who did risk their lives though- some of them in extraordinary circumstances- and I'm as grateful for them as you are.

 

[SMTA]

No, the risk to my life was probably no greater than yours, and no greater than in my days as a heavy equipment operator or an oil well roughneck.

I had friends who did risk their lives though- some of them in extraordinary circumstances- and I'm as grateful for them as you are.

I respect humility as well!

 

[RF667799]

I respect humility as well!

Getting off topic, but...see this guy?

Bio, Groom, George E.

www.pownetwork.org

Veteran Tributes

www.veterantributes.org

He was retired by the time I met him at Ft. Knox, where he worked in the shop that was my first duty assignment, and he became one of the best friends I ever had. Truth be told, a mentor and father figure for me, when I was a 23 year old private. When I returned to Ft. Knox after a tour in Germany, he was by then working about two bays down the hall from the shop where I was an instructor, and we had lunch together most days. Even after I got out of the Army (which I think disappointed him somewhat), we remained in contact and had several occasions to visit one another over the years.

George was a badass. I would never dream of besmirching his memory by claiming to be anything of the sort. He wasn't that unique, either. I knew a lot of guys had seen the elephant up close and personal. Hell, my daughter has more combat experience than I do. I spent six months TDY in Grenada, collecting hazardous duty pay, and in general having a Caribbean vacation on your dime during downtime- which was considerable. During Desert Storm, I was at Knox training LA National Guard for their deployment to that theater. (Which never happened.)

Anyway...nah, I'm not that humble. I try to be a realist though.

 

[Rucker61]

Maybe if you could figure out a way to put breathalyzers on guns that would be a good start. I’m assuming that would be an “undo burden” though.

Do all cars have breathalyzers?

 

[jaeger19]

Kleck is a heavily biased source that does not have any credibility
Statements that you reference are just words, not hard, verifiable data

Um.. Kleck certainly has credibility but I welcome you to show why in the research I cited that was Klecks.. where his study has no validity. .
But I also didn;t just source Kleck.. I also sourced
the CDC.. that analyzed several studies on defensive gun use.
AND I sourced The institute of Medicine and National Research Council.. which analyzed 4 studies.

Its all hard verifiable data.

However.. you are welcome to provide your hard verifiable data that firearms for defense are useless.

 

[SMTA]

Um.. Kleck certainly has credibility but I welcome you to show why in the research I cited that was Klecks.. where his study has no validity. .
But I also didn;t just source Kleck.. I also sourced
the CDC.. that analyzed several studies on defensive gun use.
AND I sourced The institute of Medicine and National Research Council.. which analyzed 4 studies.

Its all hard verifiable data.

However.. you are welcome to provide your hard verifiable data that firearms for defense are useless.

Please show me exactly where I said firearms are worthless

 

[jaeger19]

Please show me exactly where I said firearms are worthless

I am not in the mood to play your games.
Refute what the research I linked to states.

 

[SMTA]

I am not in the mood to play your games.
Refute what the research I linked to states.

I am not in the mood to play your games.
Refute what the research I linked to states.

Snort!
That is because you lied and got caught
At least you could be honest about it
Shame

 

[jaeger19]

Snort!
That is because you lied and got caught
At least you could be honest about it
Shame

Um no..
Lol.

 

[SMTA]

Um no..
Lol.

Double down on your lies
You can’t hide written words with bullshit
You’re busted

 

[jaeger19]

Double down on your lies
You can’t hide written words with bullshit
You’re busted

Yeah no.
I present studies and you present........
Lmao.

 

[brianpatrick]

Do all cars have breathalyzers?

No but cars are for transporting people and things. Guns are for killing things. Sports have grown up around the gun, but most of the targets have a person on them.

 

[Rucker61]

No but cars are for transporting people and things. Guns are for killing things. Sports have grown up around the gun, but most of the targets have a person on them.

And of the hundrefs millions of rounds fired each year, a fraction of a percent are aimed at innocent victims.

Prove the claim that most of the targets have a person on them, which still means exactly bupkiss.

Guns are in common use for lawful purposes and thus protected by the Second Amendment.

 

[RF667799]

No but cars are for transporting people and things. Guns are for killing things. Sports have grown up around the gun, but most of the targets have a person on them.

Absolute categorical statements are often false. Both of yours are. Prove "guns are for killing things".

And anyway, killing things is not inherently a negative action, so being able to be used to kill things is not a negative attribute of a machine.

 

[brianpatrick]

And of the hundrefs millions of rounds fired each year, a fraction of a percent are aimed at innocent victims.

Prove the claim that most of the targets have a person on them, which still means exactly bupkiss.

Guns are in common use for lawful purposes and thus protected by the Second Amendment.

Hundreds of millions of rounds fired in training. You know I’m right or you wouldn’t have asked me to prove it. You have way more facts than I do. You’ve studied it a long time with an eye toward debunking “gun grabbers.”

 

[brianpatrick]

Absolute categorical statements are often false. Both of yours are. Prove "guns are for killing things".

And anyway, killing things is not inherently a negative action, so being able to be used to kill things is not a negative attribute of a machine.

This is a good one. I think I hit a nerve. Let’s leave it here.

 

[SMTA]

Yeah no.
I present studies and you present........
Lmao.

Hilariously childish lies continue

 

[RF667799]

This is a good one. I think I hit a nerve. Let’s leave it here.

You made some statements you can't support, is all. I made some you can't refute. It doesn't "hit a nerve". It happens quite often, and I'm used to it.

 

[jaeger19]

No but cars are for transporting people and things. Guns are for killing things. Sports have grown up around the gun, but most of the targets have a person on them.

Well actually no. Most of the targets don't have a person on them.
( you know you really need to stop talking about gun culture because..we boy do you have it wrong?

But yes guns kill things..so?
You act as if killing things is inherently bad.

 

[RF667799]

Hundreds of millions of rounds fired in training. You know I’m right or you wouldn’t have asked me to prove it. You have way more facts than I do. You’ve studied it a long time with an eye toward debunking “gun grabbers.”

I'd say that bolded is probably true.

Interesting notion, though, that asking someone to support a claim is proof the claim is correct. Which then means no support for the claim is necessary. Pretty much allows unchecked bullshit to rule the day, if anyone accepts such circular argumentation.