How To Talk To Anti Gun People

[NolanVoyd]

There isn't a great deal of difference between a rate of 11.5 and a rate of 11.4, or even 11.2. Tennessee, Maryland, and Illinois all have virtually the same homicide rate, according to your source. But of course, you want to edit your source to tell your narrative. If "gun friendly" is the controlling factor for a high homicide rate, then how do two "gun un-friendly" states find themselves right in the hunt? Well...they don't, once they're edited out.

There you go again.

 

[RF667799]

There you go again.

Critiquing your arguments in a way that has you at a loss to respond?

Why yes I do.

Take a look at the CDC data. There's no correlation to speak of between homicide rate and "gun friendly". Texas has a significantly lower homicide rate than Illinois- which as you pointed out is in the top 10.

 

[jaeger19]

Lol.

Look at the top seven then. Highest murder rates in the country and totally gun friendly.

Kind of screws up DebateChallenge's point.

Well no it doesn't.
It pretty much shows that there is little correlation with murder rates and whether a state is gun friendly or not.
Which proves gun control is not effective in decreasing crime.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Kind of screws up DebateChallenge's point.

Not when you take D.C. into account.

 

[DebateChallenge]

And the top 7? Are you just going to gloss over those.

They're all in the south. In the southern USA we have a problem with murder due to factors such as racism and poverty.

 

[RF667799]

Including DC, there are three gun unfriendly states in the top 10.

What's the ratio of gun unfriendly to gun friendly overall?

 

[brianpatrick]

The vast majority of guns in the USA are owned by good people.

No question. The vast majority of people in the US don’t drive drunk either.

 

[Rucker61]

No question. The vast majority of people in the US don’t drive drunk either.

The vast majority of people in the US are allowed to own cars and own alcohol, too. It's the misuse of these two that are the problems, not the mere possession.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Well no it doesn't.
It pretty much shows that there is little correlation with murder rates and whether a state is gun friendly or not.
Which proves gun control is not effective in decreasing crime.

Lol.

But his point was that there is a correlation between violent crime rates and gun friendly.

So you Re telling me you want it both ways

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Here is how to talk to anti gun people.

Put the numbers and statistics aside because it is not convenient for you. Than start using the 1% rule. (For those unfamiliar, the 1% rule is used by the stupid to use the 1% exception as an excuse to conveniently ignore the remaining 99%) And all this to keep alive a law from 1791 that was intended for life in a different time era. Yet people desperately wanna keep alive the law because it makes them feel better. not safer. It's a bit like owning a Ferrari to compensate for you know what. The only difference is that the vast majority of people can not afford a Ferrari but they can afford a gun.

But I will give you a number that you will wanna put aside again of course.

A policeman in the US is 57 times more likely to get shot dead than in the UK. And the best part is, the police in the UK do not even wear a fire arm! 57! FIFTY SEVEN!!!!

So the bottom line really is quite simple; the more you defend the second amendment and your right to carry a firearm, the more stupid you look. It's like an intelligent test for the masses. And you failed miserably.


Joey

 

[jaeger19]

Lol.

But his point was that there is a correlation between violent crime rates and gun friendly.

So you Re telling me you want it both ways

Well actually I don;t believe that was his point. The irony here is I think you are making an assumption of his position.
He was answering a post in which someone (it might of been him but it was not directly quoted) said " SOME.. of the states with the lowest crime are some of the most gun friendly". And then there was someone that asked for a citation.

And so DC presented Maine and Vermont has having low crime and yet being gun friendly.

And meanwhile pointing out that DC.. has high crime and yet stringent gun control.

The fact is.. since there is no clear correlation of Low crime with high gun control...

It proves that gun control is not effective.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Well actually I don;t believe that was his point. The irony here is I think you are making an assumption of his position.
He was answering a post in which someone (it might of been him but it was not directly quoted) said " SOME.. of the states with the lowest crime are some of the most gun friendly". And then there was someone that asked for a citation.

And so DC presented Maine and Vermont has having low crime and yet being gun friendly.

And meanwhile pointing out that DC.. has high crime and yet stringent gun control.

The fact is.. since there is no clear correlation of Low crime with high gun control...

It proves that gun control is not effective.

Always with the straw grasping excuses.

Go back and re read it.

 

[RF667799]

Put the numbers and statistics aside because it is not convenient for you. Than start using the 1% rule. (For those unfamiliar, the 1% rule is used by the stupid to use the 1% exception as an excuse to conveniently ignore the remaining 99%) And all this to keep alive a law from 1791 that was intended for life in a different time era. Yet people desperately wanna keep alive the law because it makes them feel better. not safer. It's a bit like owning a Ferrari to compensate for you know what. The only difference is that the vast majority of people can not afford a Ferrari but they can afford a gun.

But I will give you a number that you will wanna put aside again of course.

A policeman in the US is 57 times more likely to get shot dead than in the UK. And the best part is, the police in the UK do not even wear a fire arm! 57! FIFTY SEVEN!!!!

So the bottom line really is quite simple; the more you defend the second amendment and your right to carry a firearm, the more stupid you look. It's like an intelligent test for the masses. And you failed miserably.


Joey

Your entire post ends up with nothing but an ad hominem attack as its conclusion. Not surprising, since that also describes most of the argumentation.

 

[poppopfox]

The fact is.. since there is no clear correlation of Low crime with high gun control...

It proves that gun control is not effective.

Wrong, Those are just your assumptions. Where's the evidence/ research/ studies/ journal articles that prove gun control is not effective at reducing crime?

Fact Sheet: Weak Gun Laws Are Driving Increases in Violent Crime

• States that received an “F” grade based on the strength of their gun laws—according to the latest scorecard from the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence—saw the highest homicide rates:1
  • States with “F” grades saw 25 percent higher homicide rates than states with “C” or “D” grades.2
  • States with “F” grades saw 61 percent higher homicide rates than states with “A” or “B” grades—states with the strongest gun laws.3
• The states with the highest firearm mortality rates are Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, and Wyoming.4 These states all received an “F” grade for their weak gun laws.5
• Children and teenagers are most vulnerable in states with weaker gun laws: In 2020, the 10 states with the highest rates of gun deaths among children and teenagers ages 1–19 were Louisiana, Alaska, Mississippi, South Carolina, Arkansas, Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, and Alabama.6 All of these states received an “F” grade for their weak gun laws.
• Reports also suggest that rates of nonfatal gunshot injuries sustained during assaults are higher in states with weaker gun laws: In 2017, the most recent year with available data across all states, states that received an “F” grade had a rate of nonfatal gunshot injuries that was 22 percent higher than states with “C” or “D” grades and 59 percent higher than states with “A” or “B” grades.7

Missouri’s repeal of its handgun law led to an increase in gun homicide rates​

Iowa has seen a dramatic increase in gun violence after weakening its state gun laws​

Mississippi has the weakest gun laws and the highest firearm death rate in the country​

Mass shootings are increasing faster in states with weak gun laws​

Police officers are more likely to be fatally shot in states with weaker gun laws​

States that strengthen gun laws see reductions in violent crime​

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Your entire post ends up with nothing but an ad hominem attack as its conclusion. Not surprising, since that also describes most of the argumentation.

You're absolutely 100% right!

And that's the difference between you and me. You need a gun for that. I can do it with words. I will apologise for the choice of words, but I had to make sure that people like you would understand.

Joey

 

[Rucker61]

You're absolutely 100% right!

And that's the difference between you and me. You need a gun for that. I can do it with words. I will apologise for the choice of words, but I had to make sure that people like you would understand.

Joey

How would you define "people like you", using your nice words.

Speaking of using your words: as you apparently live in Thailand, are you free to go outside to the park and yell "The King is a Fink", or is your freedom of speech somewhat restricted?

 

[JoeyJoystick]

How would you define "people like you", using your nice words.

Speaking of using your words: as you apparently live in Thailand, are you free to go outside to the park and yell "The King is a Fink", or is your freedom of speech somewhat restricted?

Fortunately you're doing a good job describing yourself. You do not need me for that.


Joey

 

[brianpatrick]

The vast majority of people in the US are allowed to own cars and own alcohol, too. It's the misuse of these two that are the problems, not the mere possession.

Ok, the vast majority of people who use drugs recreationally don’t have problems, but they are illegal.

 

[Rucker61]

Fortunately you're doing a good job describing yourself. You do not need me for that.


Joey

So, someone who understands the laws and Constitution of their own country? That's me.

 

[Rucker61]

Ok, the vast majority of people who use drugs recreationally don’t have problems, but they are illegal.

Are you conflating possession of illegal drugs and possession of legal firearms?

 

[RF667799]

You're absolutely 100% right!

And that's the difference between you and me. You need a gun for that. I can do it with words. I will apologise for the choice of words, but I had to make sure that people like you would understand.

Joey

This is an internet forum, and uses the printed word. Guns are useless here.

You admit your ad hominem attack. I hope you're aware that it isn't rational argument. It amounts to saying, "I don't want to eat my vegetables,because you're a poopy head."

So yes, I understand.

 

[jaeger19]

Wrong, Those are just your assumptions. Where's the evidence/ research/ studies/ journal articles that prove gun control is not effective at reducing crime?

Fact Sheet: Weak Gun Laws Are Driving Increases in Violent Crime

• States that received an “F” grade based on the strength of their gun laws—according to the latest scorecard from the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence—saw the highest homicide rates:1
  • States with “F” grades saw 25 percent higher homicide rates than states with “C” or “D” grades.2
  • States with “F” grades saw 61 percent higher homicide rates than states with “A” or “B” grades—states with the strongest gun laws.3
• The states with the highest firearm mortality rates are Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, and Wyoming.4 These states all received an “F” grade for their weak gun laws.5
• Children and teenagers are most vulnerable in states with weaker gun laws: In 2020, the 10 states with the highest rates of gun deaths among children and teenagers ages 1–19 were Louisiana, Alaska, Mississippi, South Carolina, Arkansas, Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, and Alabama.6 All of these states received an “F” grade for their weak gun laws.
• Reports also suggest that rates of nonfatal gunshot injuries sustained during assaults are higher in states with weaker gun laws: In 2017, the most recent year with available data across all states, states that received an “F” grade had a rate of nonfatal gunshot injuries that was 22 percent higher than states with “C” or “D” grades and 59 percent higher than states with “A” or “B” grades.7

Missouri’s repeal of its handgun law led to an increase in gun homicide rates​

Iowa has seen a dramatic increase in gun violence after weakening its state gun laws​

Mississippi has the weakest gun laws and the highest firearm death rate in the country​

Mass shootings are increasing faster in states with weak gun laws​

Police officers are more likely to be fatally shot in states with weaker gun laws​

States that strengthen gun laws see reductions in violent crime​

Yawn... yes.. if you pick and choose the years in which you conduct these studies. Yes.. you can see correlations.
BUT NOT.. if you use a large time frame.

The facts are..in the 2000's. and into 2013 to 2014. ... crime rates plummeted... while the Assault weapons ban was allowed to expire... gun sales
soared, and most states eased up on their gun laws going to open carry... and concealed weapons applications soared.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryb...ales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/?sh=435c30093f7c

Sorry but there simply is not clear correlation that increase in guns equals more crime....

 

[RF667799]

Ok, the vast majority of people who use drugs recreationally don’t have problems, but they are illegal.

You have evidence for that? I could probably accept it if you were talking about marijuana. I've yet to see a recreational meth user shitting in high cotton, though.

 

[RF667799]

Yawn... yes.. if you pick and choose the years in which you conduct these studies. Yes.. you can see correlations.
BUT NOT.. if you use a large time frame.

The facts are..in the 2000's. and into 2013 to 2014. ... crime rates plummeted... while the Assault weapons ban was allowed to expire... gun sales
soared, and most states eased up on their gun laws going to open carry... and concealed weapons applications soared.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryb...ales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/?sh=435c30093f7c

Sorry but there simply is not clear correlation that increase in guns equals more crime....

Also, it helps to tell a story if the Giffords bunch is grading the states on their gun laws. Strangely though, when you delve into the data a little deeper, the states with "A" grades don't necessarily have low homicide rates. Perhaps why the Look At This presentation didn't go into that very much.

 

[jaeger19]

Ok, the vast majority of people who use drugs recreationally don’t have problems, but they are illegal.

Well.. I would question whether the majority of people that use illegal drugs recreationally "don;t have problems".
I can think of a number of health problems my patients who use drugs recreationally have. OR use those drugs "recreationally".. when really they are self medicating.

But yes.. when you consider the amount of time, money and resources wasted on making recreational drug users.. who aren;t doing any harm to anyone but themselves, criminals.... it beg the question whether bans on illegal drugs makes sense.

So perhaps.. you should question whether banning firearms makes sense. Particularly since using a firearm in no way interacts with your bodies physiology.. unlike drugs.