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How to Cut Child Poverty in Half.

you are the one who plays the victim not me

Amazing how often that happens when it is someone on the dole...regardless of whether it (being on the dole) is justified (as I believe it is in his case) or not.
 
Amazing how often that happens when it is someone on the dole...regardless of whether it (being on the dole) is justified (as I believe it is in his case) or not.

its a self esteem issue. One of the biggest problems in america is the fact that it used to be considered uncool to be on the dole. People who had to suckle from the Public teat wanted to get off it as soon as possible because other people looked down on such activity and more importantly, those on the dole felt bad about their own status. Now, with 70 years of brainwashing, many consider it their RIGHT and they resent someone else telling them to quit the teat.
 
its a self esteem issue. One of the biggest problems in america is the fact that it used to be considered uncool to be on the dole. People who had to suckle from the Public teat wanted to get off it as soon as possible because other people looked down on such activity and more importantly, those on the dole felt bad about their own status. Now, with 70 years of brainwashing, many consider it their RIGHT and they resent someone else telling them to quit the teat.

As long as we can demonize all the eeeeevil rich people and blame them on their failings we can continue to be failures but feel less bad about it...

I gotcha...

...its kinda sad really...
 
As long as we can demonize all the eeeeevil rich people and blame them on their failings we can continue to be failures but feel less bad about it...

I gotcha...

...its kinda sad really...


yep, taking responsibility for one's self is a fading virtue in America. Failures want to blame everyone but themselves for their lack of success

Poor-blame the rich

Fat-blame the thin

a klutz-blame the athletic

ugly-blame the beautiful

blame everyone but yourself for your own screw ups

and vote into power those scumbags who tell you that its not your fault that you are a mope
 
what I find odd is that the question is always: "what can WE do to help them?" and never: "what can THEY do to help themselves?"

...[O]ur nation can readily reduce remaining poverty, especially among children. To accomplish this, we must focus on the main causes of child poverty: low levels of parental work and high levels of single parenthood.

In good economic times or bad, the typical poor family with children is supported by only 800 hours of work during a year: That amounts to 16 hours of work per week. If work in each family were raised to 2,000 hours per year the equivalent of one adult working 40 hours per week through the year nearly 75 percent of poor children would be lifted out of official poverty.

The decline in marriage is the second major cause of child poverty. Nearly twothirds of poor children reside in singleparent homes; each year, an additional 1.3 million children are born out of wedlock. Increasing marriage would substantially reduce child poverty: If poor mothers married the fathers of their children, almost three quarters would immediately be lifted out of poverty.

In recent years, the United States has established a reasonable record in reducing child poverty. Successful antipoverty policies were partially implemented in the welfare reform legislation of 1996, which replaced the old Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) program with a new program called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF).

A key element of this reform was a requirement that some welfare mothers either prepare for work or get jobs as a condition of receiving aid. As this requirement went into effect, welfare rolls plummeted and employment of single mothers increased in an unprecedented manner. As employment of single mothers rose, child poverty dropped rapidly. For example, in the quartercentury before welfare reform, there was no net change in the poverty rate of children in singlemother families; after reform was enacted, the poverty rate dropped in an unprecedented fashion, falling from 53.1 percent in 1995 to 39.8 percent in 2001.....

If child poverty is to be substantially reduced, welfare must be transformed. Ablebodied parents must be required to work or prepare for work, and the welfare system should encourage rather than penalize marriage....
 
...[O]ur nation can readily reduce remaining poverty, especially among children. To accomplish this, we must focus on the main causes of child poverty: low levels of parental work and high levels of single parenthood.

In good economic times or bad, the typical poor family with children is supported by only 800 hours of work during a year: That amounts to 16 hours of work per week. If work in each family were raised to 2,000 hours per year the equivalent of one adult working 40 hours per week through the year nearly 75 percent of poor children would be lifted out of official poverty.

Interesting - but in order for one to work more, with children, they hav eot have someone care for the children - requiring childcare/school (and childcare).

The decline in marriage is the second major cause of child poverty. Nearly twothirds of poor children reside in singleparent homes; each year, an additional 1.3 million children are born out of wedlock. Increasing marriage would substantially reduce child poverty: If poor mothers married the fathers of their children, almost three quarters would immediately be lifted out of poverty.

This is a bit of a fallacy. You're makin this conclusion by assuming that a married couple would net a more solid income together and provide a more stable environment (which is far from the truth). I left my ex because he was doing the exact opposite - I was not a single parent statistic until he became a drug addict

A key element of this reform was a requirement that some welfare mothers either prepare for work or get jobs as a condition of receiving aid. As this requirement went into effect, welfare rolls plummeted and employment of single mothers increased in an unprecedented manner. As employment of single mothers rose, child poverty dropped rapidly. For example, in the quartercentury before welfare reform, there was no net change in the poverty rate of children in singlemother families; after reform was enacted, the poverty rate dropped in an unprecedented fashion, falling from 53.1 percent in 1995 to 39.8 percent in 2001.....

If child poverty is to be substantially reduced, welfare must be transformed. Ablebodied parents must be required to work or prepare for work, and the welfare system should encourage rather than penalize marriage....

I agree with some of this - but those reforms that made a significant change ARE still in effect - generally speaking - someone's support is capped off at 5 years over a lifetime - 2 years at a time. . . no more generational families who rely on welfare as if it's income. So - WITH that taken into account - what else could be done? I think that *everyone* should be required to attend college and earn some sort of degree NOT just be required to 'get a job' - because many do have jobs, and it's not enough pay . . .many do have moer than one job - and that' seither not enough income or *too much* income . . . only a portion of people who are classified as being impoverished receive aid.

You can help those who qualify / are in the system - but what about everyone else who's not in the system for whatever reason?
 
Let me tell you where I am going. The simple fact is that most-the great majority- people get wealthy because they bust their ass to succeed.

The current system works in favor of the wealthy. Also, one requires money to make money which is why the rich get richer. It's got very little to do with hard work, and much to do with a system that favors the wealthy as well as luck. Don't get me wrong, there are those who do work very hard, but it seems like you're thinking of the small business owner, not multi millionaires and such.

The claim that I or anyone else 'steals' from the poor is silly. Please demonstrate. Im not going to debate with a video. Talk to me about specifics. The ultimate reality is that when people do not go to school, when they do not plan for their future, whenh they do not take advantage of existing programs, they fail. Thats on them...and no one else.

I did demonstrate. The fact that you wont take the time to review my sources is not my problem.
 
Interesting - but in order for one to work more, with children, they hav eot have someone care for the children - requiring childcare/school (and childcare).

This is a bit of a fallacy. You're makin this conclusion by assuming that a married couple would net a more solid income together and provide a more stable environment (which is far from the truth).

statistically that is precisely the truth. you get your outliers, (yours, for example), but statistically speaking single-parenthood is the leading cause of child-poverty and an exceedingly poor environment to be raised in. as for the numbers - it looks like they are assuming that the mother and father would marry, move in together (thus reducing their costs), and keep whatever income they had previously. hardly a fallacy.

I agree with some of this - but those reforms that made a significant change ARE still in effect - generally speaking - someone's support is capped off at 5 years over a lifetime - 2 years at a time. . . no more generational families who rely on welfare as if it's income. So - WITH that taken into account - what else could be done?

well, given that the two best ways to increase child poverty would be to have their parents marry, and then have at least one of them work full time. Currently two-thirds of our poor children live in a single-parent household, and are supported by only 16 hours of work a week. an easy thing to say in an economy with 9.1% unemployment, I know - but that is a situation that will not remain forever. Government regulations which punish rather than reward marriage should be altered. Government regulations which present a higher barrier to hiring should be streamlined and revoked, and I would say the child-tax-credit should be expanded, even as the rest of the code is flattened in accordance with the Bowles-Simpson recommendations. A depressingly high percentage of our poor children will receive "education" only in the sense that they will spend a few hours a day in a school building; instituting school choice programs for our lower and lower middle classes would provide a powerful means for them to break the cycle of poverty by ensuring that their children receive knowledge, skills, and work ethics that will make them more competitive in the job market. Medicaid can be reformed to an HSA model, which allows the poor to maintain their access to healthcare while building wealth (and, incidentally, helping to provide downward pressure on costs). Indiana did this and the CATO (libertarian think tank) guys went nuts because they were worried it made Medicaid too good, and poor people wouldn't want to leave it for a "regular" plan.

Poverty in the elderly is a tougher nut to crack, largely because we have already tried to solve this with massive pyramid schemes, and those schemes have failed us. No matter whose "plan" you choose, the reality is that Medicare and Social Security expenditures will be reduced sharply off the baseline in future years. Social Security should instead be altered to a system that allows low-income workers to own their own accounts, which grow tax-free, and will let them retire financially independent. When I ran the numbers for a thread a few months ago, I found that simply by diverting 2/3rds of his FICA tax into a personalized account (the rest would go to continue to fund benefits for current retirees), a man who never earned more than $32,000 a year in his entire working life could nonetheless retire a millionaire. So, while for our current crop, the best we can do is reform Medicare to allow market pressure to push down cost while means-testing the benefits so that they aid the poor more while helping the wealthy less - for future elderly, we can do quit a bit.

I think that *everyone* should be required to attend college and earn some sort of degree NOT just be required to 'get a job' - because many do have jobs, and it's not enough pay . . .many do have moer than one job - and that' seither not enough income or *too much* income . . . only a portion of people who are classified as being impoverished receive aid.

"everyone get's college degrees" is not a formula for success - for the simple reason that not all of our jobs require college-level training. And government jobs-training programs have an abysmal history. we would be better served if we reduced the power of the specialty cartels - such as those who restrict the number of people who can become plumbers, electricians, and welders. Those kinds of jobs are the kind that America needs, that can't be exported, that are currently fairly well paid, and don't require a collegiate education.
 
The current system works in favor of the wealthy. Also, one requires money to make money which is why the rich get richer. It's got very little to do with hard work, and much to do with a system that favors the wealthy as well as luck. Don't get me wrong, there are those who do work very hard, but it seems like you're thinking of the small business owner, not multi millionaires and such.

actually the vast majority of millionaires are first-generation, self-made.
 
The current system works in favor of the wealthy. Also, one requires money to make money which is why the rich get richer. It's got very little to do with hard work, and much to do with a system that favors the wealthy as well as luck. Don't get me wrong, there are those who do work very hard, but it seems like you're thinking of the small business owner, not multi millionaires and such.

I did demonstrate. The fact that you wont take the time to review my sources is not my problem.

Its kinda like the young hotshot in college debate classes that lays down a book of sources and says...there are my sources, you have to refute them. No...I dont. I understand all about the real world and as i said...im not invested in fixing third world countries. I make the occasional donation...thats pretty much the extent of my time and effort. I look around MY country...I dont know where you live...and I see far too many people that drop out of school, dont prepare themselves for a future, start having babies out of wedlock or long before they are ready to rpovide for them...I see a whole lot of people DIRECTLY AND PERSONALLY responsible for ****ing up their own lives. No one to blame but themselves but OH do they LOVE to blame others or how life isnt 'fair'. Those people we can HELP...if THEY are actually ready to engage in repairing the damage they themselves have done and stop whining about rich people and those that DID bother to builld a life for themselves.
 
Its kinda like the young hotshot in college debate classes that lays down a book of sources and says...there are my sources, you have to refute them. No...I dont. I understand all about the real world and as i said...im not invested in fixing third world countries. I make the occasional donation...thats pretty much the extent of my time and effort. I look around MY country...I dont know where you live...and I see far too many people that drop out of school, dont prepare themselves for a future,


WOW:shock:


.............
 
You tossing yourself under the bus, yeah. It is kinda funny.

Yuck it up fuzzball...

Just out of curiosity...do you have a reading comprehension problem or do you not understand what a debate sourcebook is? The scenario might have you a little twisted...it happens when people jump in to conversations they arent a part of and make snarky comments...
 
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Its kinda like the young hotshot in college debate classes that lays down a book of sources and says...there are my sources, you have to refute them. No...I dont. I understand all about the real world and as i said...im not invested in fixing third world countries. I make the occasional donation...thats pretty much the extent of my time and effort. I look around MY country...I dont know where you live...and I see far too many people that drop out of school, dont prepare themselves for a future, start having babies out of wedlock or long before they are ready to rpovide for them...I see a whole lot of people DIRECTLY AND PERSONALLY responsible for ****ing up their own lives. No one to blame but themselves but OH do they LOVE to blame others or how life isnt 'fair'. Those people we can HELP...if THEY are actually ready to engage in repairing the damage they themselves have done and stop whining about rich people and those that DID bother to builld a life for themselves.

You ask for sources, I provide them. Then you refuse to look at them because you don't approve of the format. I told you several times that this documentary also gives examples of exploitations right here in the US. In fact, I even wrote a description after each video. It's plain to see that you're not interested in the truth.

Good night. :2wave:
 
Good response

statistically that is precisely the truth. you get your outliers, (yours, for example), but statistically speaking single-parenthood is the leading cause of child-poverty and an exceedingly poor environment to be raised in. as for the numbers - it looks like they are assuming that the mother and father would marry, move in together (thus reducing their costs), and keep whatever income they had previously. hardly a fallacy.

Just as you believe that 'get a college degree' (RE later on in the post) won't solve all ails - neither will a standard marriage. Countless families are are married and together are in the system - child poverty is not just a byproduct of single parenting. I was on welfare while I was married the first time. . . we were both employed - in fact - we both worked full time. But that just wasn't enough money.

The real deal, here, then is that it's such a complicated issue - no one solutoin will solve it all . . . it's a vast problem with many different reasons and responses to take.

well, given that the two best ways to increase child poverty would be to have their parents marry, and then have at least one of them work full time. Currently two-thirds of our poor children live in a single-parent household, and are supported by only 16 hours of work a week. an easy thing to say in an economy with 9.1% unemployment, I know - but that is a situation that will not remain forever. Government regulations which punish rather than reward marriage should be altered. Government regulations which present a higher barrier to hiring should be streamlined and revoked, and I would say the child-tax-credit should be expanded, even as the rest of the code is flattened in accordance with the Bowles-Simpson recommendations. A depressingly high percentage of our poor children will receive "education" only in the sense that they will spend a few hours a day in a school building; instituting school choice programs for our lower and lower middle classes would provide a powerful means for them to break the cycle of poverty by ensuring that their children receive knowledge, skills, and work ethics that will make them more competitive in the job market. Medicaid can be reformed to an HSA model, which allows the poor to maintain their access to healthcare while building wealth (and, incidentally, helping to provide downward pressure on costs). Indiana did this and the CATO (libertarian think tank) guys went nuts because they were worried it made Medicaid too good, and poor people wouldn't want to leave it for a "regular" plan.

Good points.
However - I don't believe that the solution is to force two to marry just because a child comes into the picture - or requiring one individual to just be a free daycare (which is what being a sahm is) . . . or to rely on one person to be a workhorse and breadwinner. I mean - someone can be a single parent and just as well be a bump on a log via caring for their child daily :shrug:

Poverty in the elderly is a tougher nut to crack, largely because we have already tried to solve this with massive pyramid schemes, and those schemes have failed us. No matter whose "plan" you choose, the reality is that Medicare and Social Security expenditures will be reduced sharply off the baseline in future years. Social Security should instead be altered to a system that allows low-income workers to own their own accounts, which grow tax-free, and will let them retire financially independent. When I ran the numbers for a thread a few months ago, I found that simply by diverting 2/3rds of his FICA tax into a personalized account (the rest would go to continue to fund benefits for current retirees), a man who never earned more than $32,000 a year in his entire working life could nonetheless retire a millionaire. So, while for our current crop, the best we can do is reform Medicare to allow market pressure to push down cost while means-testing the benefits so that they aid the poor more while helping the wealthy less - for future elderly, we can do quit a bit.

I don't know about how I feel about this - seems like everyone should know they might live to be elderly. They have a set period of quite a lot of time before they get there . . .by the time they arrive - in 50/60 years or more - they should be ready.

I see that as complete personal decision (or lack of) creating their own problems. . . but, as with childhood poverty - not everyone becoems poor in the same way. Some were prepared and the nmany unforseen circumstances came about and they were robbed of their careful planning . . .**** happens.

"everyone get's college degrees" is not a formula for success - for the simple reason that not all of our jobs require college-level training. And government jobs-training programs have an abysmal history. we would be better served if we reduced the power of the specialty cartels - such as those who restrict the number of people who can become plumbers, electricians, and welders. Those kinds of jobs are the kind that America needs, that can't be exported, that are currently fairly well paid, and don't require a collegiate education.

Post-highschool education isn't just a college degree like a BA in Business or an AS in Accounting. There are certification programs, hands on training, learn to work and other countless progress that couple education with employment and preparation - within a year, 2 or more years - for a more sound future.

Anyone who has experience, even if it's just maintenance and repair work - will have a better chance at finding a more stable job in the future.

Anything is better than doing nothing and hoping to actually sustain a child(ren) with nothing.
 
You ask for sources, I provide them. Then you refuse to look at them because you don't approve of the format. I told you several times that this documentary also gives examples of exploitations right here in the US. In fact, I even wrote a description after each video. It's plain to see that you're not interested in the truth.

Good night. :2wave:

Adios...and in rebuttal...

Encyclopedia - Britannica Online Encyclopedia
 
had he issued as his cite "youtube" rather than a particular video, then your response would have been in kind
since he offered you a particular cite which you refuse to access
your response is that of a debate opponent who knows he is bested, is without a rebuttal and chooses to deflect while he runs away
 
had he issued as his cite "youtube" rather than a particular video, then your response would have been in kind
since he offered you a particular cite which you refuse to access
your response is that of a debate opponent who knows he is bested, is without a rebuttal and chooses to deflect while he runs away

My response is of one that is not interested in watching two hours of videos from locations in third world countries because someone is too lazy or is incapable of actually making their own point. Did YOU watch them or are you just going to be like Winston and jump on in for the sake of a snarky smarmy little comment? What is YOUR contribution beyond some snippy little yap? Since YOU apparently watched them maybe YOU can state his point for him. Please...jump in there and show how rich people are stealing from the poor...the original premise.
 

Haha - did you do that on purpose? Britannica online is less accessible and for free knowledge than freaking wikipedia. . . they want money - they're not actually interested in spreading knowledge far and wide.

And YES some rich do take from the poor to make theirselves rich - or has no one but me ever been bilked out of sums of money before?

But vise versa - often the poor rally together ot try to bilk the rich.

It's a loving circle of butt ****ery - hardcore. I screw you - you screw him - he screws her - she screws me . . . we're all happy in the end.

light up a cigarette - they have these way cool sick pics on them now.
 
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The current system works in favor of the wealthy. Also, one requires money to make money which is why the rich get richer

:shrug: within a very broad scope, perhaps. in fact, it is the middle class who are getting richer. The vast majority of our millionaires are first-generation and self-made. but they required (most of them) a high school education, clothes, food to grow up with, etc; and all of that did take money.

It's got very little to do with hard work, and much to do with a system that favors the wealthy as well as luck.

this is actually completely incorrect. as measured by the people who actually succeed.

Don't get me wrong, there are those who do work very hard, but it seems like you're thinking of the small business owner, not multi millionaires and such

actually millionaires are precisely the demographic I am thinking of.

If this is the sort of thing that interests you, i might suggest a particularly well-written fascinating piece of work:

The Millionaire Next Door



I did demonstrate. The fact that you wont take the time to review my sources is not my problem.[/QUOTE]
 
Haha - did you do that on purpose? Britannica online is less accessible and for free knowledge than freaking wikipedia. . . they want money - they're not actually interested in spreading knowledge far and wide.

And YES some rich do take from the poor to make theirselves rich - or has no one but me ever been bilked out of sums of money before?

But vise versa - often the poor rally together ot try to bilk the rich.

It's a loving circle of butt ****ery - hardcore. I screw you - you screw him - he screws her - she screws me . . . we're all happy in the end.

light up a cigarette - they have these way cool sick pics on them now.


Frederic Bastiat: "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else"
 
Frederic Bastiat: "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else"

The title of this thread is " How to Cut Child Poverty in Half " it seems like we are way off topic. Children do not have the choice as to who there parents are nor in what social enviroment they will be born into,children can not and should not be held accountable for their birth parents nor the environment that they are born into. Some children a very small percentage may escape the poverty cycle but the majority of them will bring the next generation of children born into poverty.

To sit on a high and mighty perch and preach about how wonderful you are shows your disconnect from the realities that poor children have to deal with even before they can crawl. Walk a mile or maybe ten years in their shoes and then come back and talk when you know what you are talking about
 
The title of this thread is " How to Cut Child Poverty in Half " it seems like we are way off topic. Children do not have the choice as to who there parents are nor in what social enviroment they will be born into,children can not and should not be held accountable for their birth parents nor the environment that they are born into. Some children a very small percentage may escape the poverty cycle but the majority of them will bring the next generation of children born into poverty.

To sit on a high and mighty perch and preach about how wonderful you are shows your disconnect from the realities that poor children have to deal with even before they can crawl. Walk a mile or maybe ten years in their shoes and then come back and talk when you know what you are talking about

You arent going to end child poverty by enacting more government giveaway programs for the chirruns. You will impact child poverty by engaging their PARENTS. THAT is precisely what the discussion has been about.

Well...no...it has also been about continuing to excuse pathetic failures and blaming their problems on the rich people, or pretending somehow the problem really starts with water rights in Bumfu Egypt and NOT with irresponsible people that cant even take care of themselves having children they cant provide for.
 
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