How should the threat to Mike Pence’s life on 1/6 be viewed?

[Lursa]

Why couldn't you answer hte question?

To seriously consider your question, which is what I was doing, we have to consider the normal behavior of the people involved.

DO they have a history of violence and murder? Are they experienced murderers?


That is clearly relevant.


I ask you again, over the last ten years, how many people have republican mobs killed?


Actually, I don't think you will ever answer. So, let's jump forward. The answer, as far as I know, is zero.



Republcians do not have a history of political mob murders.


So, while we do have a Death Threat, and a very angry mob. We also know that the history of the movement and the people involved is one of PEACEFUL and LEGAL political activity.


imo, it would be hard to know for certain, what would have happened if the mob had caught Pence. Would they have actually followed though on their murder threat, or would he have faced them down and they sort of just wandered around in the Capitol, as per what actually happened?

"Mob mentality." It breeds violence. We all saw it outside...yes or no? Yes of course.

Many were armed, including bludgeons and spears. The horned guy's "flag" was tied to a spear...it's clear in closeups.

Why were they armed? What do you think would have happened if they did manage to break into the chamber where there was no longer an assembly but people taking cover? Please explain.

 

[Absentglare]

Read what I wrote again. Dont respond with a question, esp after you cut half the post...that is a diversion.

There would be loads of things to use to hang someone...as the noose and to hang them from. Jeebus. And everyone had a belt ​

​

It was symbolic: Hanging is an internationally historic PUBLIC political way of killing...but I doubt their plan was to hang anyone. Just maim and kill. They had knives, guns, and bludgeons of all kinds. And we saw the maiming.​

So, after 3 tries you realize your statement on needing the gallows inside to hang someone was nonsense. Good.

Are you actually implying that because they were stopped, they wouldnt have used them? Is that where you want the conversation to go? Hmmm...why were they carrying them?



It was a death threat, it didnt have to be hanging, but yeah, that symbolizes killing for sure. Anger is legal, violence is not, so they chose a symbol of killing and violence. It was a death threat. They were so angry they wanted them to know they were angry enough to kill.



What massive crackdown? It didnt stop them from a huge amount of property damage, stealing, shitting on the floors, and beating the hell of out law enforcement. They could have stopped it if they'd shot more of them, right? That stopped that mob behind Babbit, didnt it? Kinda seems like that you are exaggerating "massive."

There is no doubt that people showed up to capture or kill our country’s leaders on behalf of Donald Trump.

 

[Hamish Howl]

View attachment 67537529

View attachment 67537530

Terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

This piece of shit belongs in prison.

 

[Corbell]

You mean right wing extremists; they have a track record if you go back a few more years....
However in the 'modern' era- there is always a starting point. You question is like some colonial apologists asking the British- 'Well how many barrels of tea were thrown into Boston Harbor before this??????
There is always a starting point...

No, I mean republicans. I mean, you don't WANT to try to hold modern republcians responsible for say... anti-slavery riots in the 1800s? as though that is somehow bad for Trump today?

That would be misleading and dishonest.


So, I'm just trying to be... serious. I admitted that hte brook bothers riot back in 2000 was a second republican riot. I had forgotten about that. That's TWO, so far.

No killings that I am aware of.


Can you think of any? I mean, if we are going to talk about this, we need to have some basic facts established to talk about it, right?

So, why are you... pushing back on that?

 

[Corbell]

Which liar sold you that particular piece of polished manure?

Did the fbi investigation the riot? Did the fbi have assets inside the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers?

 

[Corbell]

Ok, I assume no people have been killed by Republican Party mobs. Or by Democratic mobs. So what’s the point of your asking and my answering?

As I stated clearly in the post you just read,


to judge the question of "what would have happened if hte mob caught Pence".


If it is a serious question, and you seriously want an answer, looking at the people involved to see if they have a history of violence or murder, makes sense.

 

[Corbell]

1. The goal was to disrupt the certification of the election, which is disrupting the function of our government.

2. Chris Benoit normally didn't murder his family, but he did that one weekend in question. It means nothing what people "normally" do. What matters is what they actually did.

The goal was to have a massive public rally and put political pressure on Congress and Pence. Completely within the law and normal practice.


Considering the long history of NOT rioting that republicans have, the claim that he somehow knew that this time there would be a riot, makes no sense.

 

[Corbell]

They are not mutually exclusive.

Well, thanks for clearing up nothing.

 

[Corbell]

View attachment 67537529

View attachment 67537530

Terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

So, you conceed the point about the riots?

 

[Corbell]

Read what I wrote again. Dont respond with a question, esp after you cut half the post...that is a diversion.

There would be loads of things to use to hang someone...as the noose and to hang them from. Jeebus. And everyone had a belt ​

​

It was symbolic: Hanging is an internationally historic PUBLIC political way of killing...but I doubt their plan was to hang anyone. Just maim and kill. They had knives, guns, and bludgeons of all kinds. And we saw the maiming.​

So, after 3 tries you realize your statement on needing the gallows inside to hang someone was nonsense. Good.

The "guns and knives" are bullshit. You are refusing to discuss it, specifcally because the moment you do, the picture you are trying to create falls apart.

It was NOT an planned attack with guns and knives. That out of a crowd of tens of thousands, there was a guy that had a gun that he didn't use and never planned to use, doesn't change that.

Are you actually implying that because they were stopped, they wouldnt have used them? Is that where you want the conversation to go? Hmmm...why were they carrying them?

I implying nothing. I'm pointing out that they were not used. MOst of htem you are citing, where not actually there.

It was a death threat, it didnt have to be hanging, but yeah, that symbolizes killing for sure. Anger is legal, violence is not, so they chose a symbol of killing and violence. It was a death threat. They were so angry they wanted them to know they were angry enough to kill.

So, let's talk about that threat seriously. Don't post a picture of a prop, and try to scare people with it.

What massive crackdown? It didnt stop them from a huge amount of property damage, stealing, shitting on the floors, and beating the hell of out law enforcement. They could have stopped it if they'd shot more of them, right? That stopped that mob behind Babbit, didnt it? Kinda seems like that you are exaggerating "massive."

What crackdown? LOL.

 

[donhughesmusic]

The goal was to have a massive public rally and put political pressure on Congress and Pence. Completely within the law and normal practice.


Considering the long history of NOT rioting that republicans have, the claim that he somehow knew that this time there would be a riot, makes no sense.

If the goal is what you stated, then no one would have broke into the Capitol. They would have stayed outside and protested, not committed breaking and entering, not rioted, not disrupted a function of our government. When I don't agree with my boss and I tell him, I never feel the urge to break into his house and disrupt his family, or break into the business and disrupt the CEO.

And again, who cares if Republicans had a history of not rioting. That has zero bearing on what happened on January 6th. Scott Peterson had zero history of killing anyone. That didn't mean anything when he killed Laci.

 

[soap box]

Did the fbi investigation the riot?

Yes, the FBI investigated the riot.

Did the fbi have assets inside the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers?

No.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Sure as hell not hte republicans. Very moderate. VERY moderate.

Very moderate? They are one of the most far right political parties in the Western World.

They have more in common with the AFD in Germany or the National Rally Party in France than any Tory Party in the Commonwealth or the Christian Democrats in Germany.

Saying Democrats can control the weather or Haitian immigrants are eating cats and dogs is not moderate.

 

[soap box]

The goal was to have a massive public rally and put political pressure on Congress and Pence. Completely within the law and normal practice.

It can never be called normal practice since it never happened before.

For the rioters it was a demand to make trump president. For trump it was a chance to convince state legislators to rescind their EC delegation and replace it with a delegation for him. The Constitution has no provision for reversing the results after states certify their delegations.

The idea of having a president of the Senate interfere is unprecedented. The Constitution says he counts and opens. It doesn't say the VP has latitude to make any decision.

A president cannot decide who won the election.

Considering the long history of NOT rioting that republicans have, the claim that he somehow knew that this time there would be a riot, makes no sense.

I'm not aware of any evidence he knew protesters would enter the Capitol. It's clear that he refused to stop the riot for more than 2 hours.

 

[notquiteright]

No, I mean republicans. I mean, you don't WANT to try to hold modern republcians responsible for say... anti-slavery riots in the 1800s? as though that is somehow bad for Trump today?

That would be misleading and dishonest.


So, I'm just trying to be... serious. I admitted that hte brook bothers riot back in 2000 was a second republican riot. I had forgotten about that. That's TWO, so far.

No killings that I am aware of.


Can you think of any? I mean, if we are going to talk about this, we need to have some basic facts established to talk about it, right?

So, why are you... pushing back on that?

You want to dodge away from the real drivers of the violence- the extreme right wing. Be it robber barons or oil billionaires financing the disinformation war.
Why are you denying that????

 

[ColdHardTruth]

YOur just spamming a debunked claim. I posted the LINK, that you libs always pretend to care about, but actually don't.

You posted an article from a right-wing source that is not reliable. The FBI has done much work since the time of that posting. You did not acknowledge that.

 

[Nickyjo]

As I stated clearly in the post you just read,


to judge the question of "what would have happened if hte mob caught Pence".


If it is a serious question, and you seriously want an answer, looking at the people involved to see if they have a history of violence or murder, makes sense.

Whatever their history, many of the people involved that day were committing violence, so I assume the danger to Pence was real, which is why he was hustled out by security.

 

[Lursa]

The "guns and knives" are bullshit. You are refusing to discuss it, specifcally because the moment you do, the picture you are trying to create falls apart.

It was NOT an planned attack with guns and knives. That out of a crowd of tens of thousands, there was a guy that had a gun that he didn't use and never planned to use, doesn't change that.

There were at least 5 *convictions* for firearms, so you have no idea what you are talking about. And yes there were also convictions for knives. And those were just the people they brought in for other charges, so there would have been many more. They PLANNED and brought weapons, wore camo and bullet proof vests, had bear spray, bludgeons, spears, giant zip ties....those things didnt just jump onto their persons, they PLANNED and brought them...prepared for confrontation. THEY attacked our Capitol.

Look at the guy in post 302...he dressed for success! Holy shit...he had likely bear spray or mace and a taser or firearm. Plus the heavy duty zip ties. What do you think his plans were for those?

So...you are wrong about that.

I implying nothing. I'm pointing out that they were not used. MOst of htem you are citing, where not actually there.

It doesnt matter if they were used or not. They were illegal for them to bring there so their intent was a) criminal and b) preparation for violence.

You can ignore reality all you want.

So, let's talk about that threat seriously. Don't post a picture of a prop, and try to scare people with it.

I didnt. People in the mob BROUGHT a prop and used it as a threat. Threats are meant to intimidate, "scare", and coerce. They chanted "Hang Pence" to really sell it. Then they violently broke into our Capitol, vandalized it, and assaulted police.

We've covered this, so not wasting more time on it. It's just another fail for you.

What crackdown? LOL.

I dont know, you tell me You brought it up

Or are you exaggerating the seriousness of the threat to justify your side's massive crackdown?

 

[Nickyjo]

There were at least 5 *convictions* for firearms, so you have no idea what you are talking about. And yes there were also convictions for knives. And those were just the people they brought in for other charges, so there would have been many more. They PLANNED and brought weapons, wore camo and bullet proof vests, had bear spray, bludgeons, spears, giant zip ties....those things didnt just jump onto their persons, they PLANNED and brought them...prepared for confrontation. THEY attacked our Capitol.

Look at the guy in post 302...he dressed for success! Holy shit...he had likely bear spray or mace and a taser or firearm. Plus the heavy duty zip ties. What do you think his plans were for those?

So...you are wrong about that.



It doesnt matter if they were used or not. They were illegal for them to bring there so their intent was a) criminal and b) preparation for violence.

You can ignore reality all you want.



I didnt. People in the mob BROUGHT a prop and used it as a threat. Threats are meant to intimidate, "scare", and coerce. They chanted "Hang Pence" to really sell it. Then they violently broke into our Capitol, vandalized it, and assaulted police.

We've covered this, so not wasting more time on it. It's just another fail for you.



I dont know, you tell me You brought it up

First, let me repeat, what “massive crackdown”?
Second can we simply admit the more or less unassailable facts:
- Trump, as he did after other elections, claimed the 2020 election was rigged
- on the one hand, he told people to march peacefully, on the other hand he said they would lose their country if they didn’t act
- many people acted peacefully, many acted violently, breaking windows and beating up cops
- there were chants of “Hang Mike Pence” and security moved him to safety
- the goal of many in the crowd seemed to be to prevent certification of the election by the House
- Trump sat on his hands for quite a while while this unfolded, reportedly ignoring requests for him to say something
- Trump refers to those convicted as “hostages” he will likely pardon, never explaining why they are hostages

 

[Corbell]

If the goal is what you stated, then no one would have broke into the Capitol. They would have stayed outside and protested, not committed breaking and entering, not rioted, not disrupted a function of our government. When I don't agree with my boss and I tell him, I never feel the urge to break into his house and disrupt his family, or break into the business and disrupt the CEO.

And again, who cares if Republicans had a history of not rioting. That has zero bearing on what happened on January 6th. Scott Peterson had zero history of killing anyone. That didn't mean anything when he killed Laci.

YOur words make no sense. YOu are pretending to not understand the fact that sometimes plans do not go as planned.

No one can actually be like that. YOu are just trying to gaslight me.

 

[Corbell]

Yes, the FBI investigated the riot.

And what did they report?

No.

The fib doesn't have assets in such high profile and supposedly dangerous organizations?

That is highly unlikely. Indeed, if that was true, the leadership of the fbi should all be blackballed for incompetence.

 

[donhughesmusic]

YOur words make no sense. YOu are pretending to not understand the fact that sometimes plans do not go as planned.

No one can actually be like that. YOu are just trying to gaslight me.

I am not trying to gaslight you. Everyone there had a choice whether to protest, or to break into The Capitol. Past deeds mean nothing. Some chose to stay outside and protested, some chose to break in and try to disrupt the function of our government. Giuliani could have chose not to say "let's have trial by combat", but he did. The protectors could have chosen not to chant "Hang Mike Pence", but they did. All threats on someone's life should be taken seriously, whether it is a verbal threat, or worse. Yes, things don't go according to plan, but those protesters had a choice. Some stayed outside (the right decision), and some chose to break in (the unlawful decision). I planned on losing 50lbs this year, but only lost 40lbs. That doesn't mean I am going to break into Planet Fitness and disrupt the manager's business, sit at his desk, or chant (threaten) to hang his employees.

 

[soap box]

And what did they report?

In the year following the riot and self-coup, agents who are trump supporters in the FBI blocked the investigation into trumps role in the riot for lack of evidence of a connection. After that period, the FBI became alarmed that the congressional committee had obtained factual information that the FBI didn't have. At that point in time, the AG announced the investigation into the self-coup, and the Jack Smith indictment is the summary of trumps crimes committed in order to deny the results of the election.

The fib doesn't have assets in such high profile and supposedly dangerous organizations?

Not if you're saying the FBI plants were at the riot. There's no reason to consider that true.

That is highly unlikely. Indeed, if that was true, the leadership of the fbi should all be blackballed for incompetence.

Show me the evidence. I have no reason to believe that, and Im not aware of any evidence showing a false flag or FBI involvement. Show me the evidence.

 

[Nickyjo]

The goal was to have a massive public rally and put political pressure on Congress and Pence. Completely within the law and normal practice.

Completely within the law, sure. But “normal practice” is in our country is not to insist that every election that displeases you is rigged, while offering no evidence.

Considering the long history of NOT rioting that republicans have, the claim that he somehow knew that this time there would be a riot, makes no sense.

Who cares if he knew beforehand? He said people would lose their country if they didn’t act, and stayed silent for hours when they did riot. Comments like yours seem to reflect a naive blindness to Trump’s irresponsible rhetoric. He was not an op-ed writer or a TV commentator. He was a sitting president telling his supporters of a dire emergency. I don’t know if Trump can be found legally responsible for the destruction, injuries and deaths that day and following time. But he is certainly morally responsible.

 

[Corbell]

Very moderate? They are one of the most far right political parties in the Western World.

They have more in common with the AFD in Germany or the National Rally Party in France than any Tory Party in the Commonwealth or the Christian Democrats in Germany.

Saying Democrats can control the weather or Haitian immigrants are eating cats and dogs is not moderate.

Wanting pro-job trade policy, you know, like Germany has, IS VERY MODERATE.