How many more gays does god have to create...

[Jerry]

No, all gay marriage violates my religious beleifs. My religious beleifs are not secular law, and while I do not beleive that secular law should punish people for violating religious laws or rules, it does not change the fact that I beleive it to be wrong for anyone. So, if asked to vote on a proposition allowing or banning gay marriage, I will vote to ban it. If the vote goes the other way, than It will become legal and those that are so inclined can get married. I will still disagree with it, but will accept it as the law of the land. If the law allows enough things I disagree with to become legal....I can always move.

This is the opinion of 99% of anti-SSM.

 

[roguenuke]

One author's interpretation of origin of a practice does not alter thousands of years of that practice.

Lots of things have come along to alter how marriage has been practiced for the past 5000 or so years, including Christianity in general, certain figures in Christianity, the Industrial Revolution, etc. And most cultures have had different ideas of what marriage is from the start. The vast majority didn't even record most of the marriages that took place within their cultures. It was considered a private affair for most people. And it is well documented that until Midieval times, marriage was rarely about love, and much more commonly about joining households and/or business/political interests.

History of Marriage

Marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Marriage changes all the time. And it has existed without religion because even Christians weren't required to have any sort of ceremony to confirm their marriage in the early Christian times.

A few facts about marriage that I found "interesting".

63 Interesting Facts about Marriage

And the following link has a lot of interesting info about marriage (although it is quite long and goes between marriage, sexuality, procreation, abortion, living arrangements, etc.).

Cultural Anthropology/Marriage, Reproduction and Kinship - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

This is the opinion of 99% of anti-SSM.

Not at DP. And not what I see. A lot of anti-SSM folks do not only condemn homosexuality as a sin, but attack it as a mental disorder, and use degrading and demeaning terminology as descriptors... and use THESE things to justify their position. If someone comes here and says, "I am against SSM because of my religious beliefs. I do not think it is a mental disorder, nor do I think that homosexuals are "defective". I have no issue with gays at all, but, based on my religious beliefs, I do not support GM", I will have no problem with that individual. Prior to his position switch, this was how digsbe presented, and I never went after him in the same way as I go after most anti-GM folks. In fact, over the past near 5 years, I have RARELY gone after you, Jerry, because that has generally been your position... except when you are in a "mood". Problem becomes when someone who is "anti" either starts spreading misinformation (gays cannot rear chidren; gays are likely to molest children; gays are mentally disturbed; homosexuality is a mental disorder, etc...) do I go after them, and unfortunately, even those who take the benign "I don't agree with GM because of my religious beliefs" occasionally go into this mode.

 

[Jerry]

Not at DP. And not what I see. A lot of anti-SSM folks do not only condemn homosexuality as a sin, but attack it as a mental disorder, and use degrading and demeaning terminology as descriptors... and use THESE things to justify their position. If someone comes here and says, "I am against SSM because of my religious beliefs. I do not think it is a mental disorder, nor do I think that homosexuals are "defective". I have no issue with gays at all, but, based on my religious beliefs, I do not support GM", I will have no problem with that individual. Prior to his position switch, this was how digsbe presented, and I never went after him in the same way as I go after most anti-GM folks. In fact, over the past near 5 years, I have RARELY gone after you, Jerry, because that has generally been your position... except when you are in a "mood". Problem becomes when someone who is "anti" either starts spreading misinformation (gays cannot rear chidren; gays are likely to molest children; gays are mentally disturbed; homosexuality is a mental disorder, etc...) do I go after them, and unfortunately, even those who take the benign "I don't agree with GM because of my religious beliefs" occasionally go into this mode.

I would suggest that DP is not representative of the general population, as it's my belief that only certain types of personalities seek out a place to debate any topic to begin with.

Someone who is inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves out in the world are, imo, likewise going to shy away from the debate arina.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I would suggest that DP is not representative of the general population, as it's my belief that only certain types of personalities seek out a place to debate any topic to begin with.

Someone who is inclined to keep their beliefs to themselves out in the world are, imo, likewise going to shy away from the debate arina.

Hmmm... I suppose that I would agree with you, for the most part, with what you are saying here.

 

[mac]

Lots of things have come along to alter how marriage has been practiced for the past 5000 or so years, including Christianity in general, certain figures in Christianity, the Industrial Revolution, etc. And most cultures have had different ideas of what marriage is from the start. The vast majority didn't even record most of the marriages that took place within their cultures. It was considered a private affair for most people. And it is well documented that until Midieval times, marriage was rarely about love, and much more commonly about joining households and/or business/political interests.

History of Marriage

Marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Marriage changes all the time. And it has existed without religion because even Christians weren't required to have any sort of ceremony to confirm their marriage in the early Christian times.

A few facts about marriage that I found "interesting".

63 Interesting Facts about Marriage

And the following link has a lot of interesting info about marriage (although it is quite long and goes between marriage, sexuality, procreation, abortion, living arrangements, etc.).

Cultural Anthropology/Marriage, Reproduction and Kinship - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

I'm not even beginning to try to argue that the concept of marriage hasn't evolved over time, however, it has never been allowed between members of the same sex except for relatively short periods of time and in isolated areas.

 

[Your Star]

I'm not even beginning to try to argue that the concept of marriage hasn't evolved over time, however, it has never been allowed between members of the same sex except for relatively short periods of time and in isolated areas.

Why shouldn't it? It doesn't matter what it's been, but why should it stay that way.

 

[mac]

Why shouldn't it? It doesn't matter what it's been, but why should it stay that way.

Good question. Not all traditions are worthy of continuing....however, I believe there is something to "conventional wisdom" and the fact that SSM has been generally rejected has weight. Why has it been so universally rejected for so long?

It's not the end of the story though, just part of it.

 

[Your Star]

Good question. Not all traditions are worthy of continuing....however, I believe there is something to "conventional wisdom" and the fact that SSM has been generally rejected has weight. Why has it been so universally rejected for so long?

It's not the end of the story though, just part of it.

Because LGBT people have been generally discriminated against throughout history, that's why. And it's a bad thing, we should change this. I'm not any less human than you are, if I want to marry the person I love, why should I be stopped?

 

[joe six-pack]

Assuming God is the source of all things, same sex attraction wouldn't exist if God didn't want it to. Religion is about personal choice, no one is forced to follow religion in the US. Love and relationships are also about choice, we shouldn't force people to have the relationships we want them to. As long as people aren't committing crimes, Government should stay out of it. We should promote maximum religious, economic and personal Liberty for all.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Good question. Not all traditions are worthy of continuing....however, I believe there is something to "conventional wisdom" and the fact that SSM has been generally rejected has weight. Why has it been so universally rejected for so long?

It's not the end of the story though, just part of it.

Probably for the same reason the earth not being flat was rejected for so long.

 

[mac]

Because LGBT people have been generally discriminated against throughout history, that's why. And it's a bad thing, we should change this. I'm not any less human than you are, if I want to marry the person I love, why should I be stopped?

Not that I think you are equivalent, but John Wayne gacey and ubl are as human as I as well.

 

[mac]

Assuming God is the source of all things, same sex attraction wouldn't exist if God didn't want it to. Religion is about personal choice, no one is forced to follow religion in the US. Love and relationships are also about choice, we shouldn't force people to have the relationships we want them to. As long as people aren't committing crimes, Government should stay out of it. We should promote maximum religious, economic and personal Liberty for all.

Not true. God did not predispose mans thoughts and actions.

 

[mac]

Probably for the same reason the earth not being flat was rejected for so long.

Well, funny you mention that...we accepted the earth being round far sooner than the idea that gays should marry.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Well, funny you mention that...we accepted the earth being round far sooner than the idea that gays should marry.

No ****. Gay marriage has only recently become such a contentious topic.

 

[Bigfoot 88]

If people can choose not to be homosexual, It cannot be an innate behaviour.

 

[Your Star]

Not that I think you are equivalent, but John Wayne gacey and ubl are as human as I as well.

So basically you are saying homosexuality, and being a serial killer are the same?

 

[Your Star]

If people can choose not to be homosexual, It cannot be an innate behaviour.

You can't choose to not have homosexual feelings, you can choose not to act on those feelings, but you can't choose to not have said feelings.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Not true. God did not predispose mans thoughts and actions.

So let me get this straight, you believe that your god, all powerful creator of the world...

Would design a human being to put on this earth... With the ability to do something he didn't like... And wold punish for all eternity in a firey hell...

For what purpose?

To test out faith?

Or for his own sick amusement?

I mean really, why even put a human being in that position? If he's all loving anyway.

See this is why I put not an inch of stock in the bible... God didn't write it, again, men with a social agenda 1000 years ago did.

 

[tessaesque]

So let me get this straight, you believe that your god, all powerful creator of the world...

Would design a human being to put on this earth... With the ability to do something he didn't like... And wold punish for all eternity in a firey hell...

For what purpose?

To test out faith?

Or for his own sick amusement?

I mean really, why even put a human being in that position? If he's all loving anyway.

See this is why I put not an inch of stock in the bible... God didn't write it, again, men with a social agenda 1000 years ago did.

About 1900, actually.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Well, funny you mention that...we accepted the earth being round far sooner than the idea that gays should marry.

I think gay marriage was around before we thought the earth revolved around the sun.

 

[Jerry]

I'm not so concerned with whether or not one chose to be gay, as so much I am with one's choice in spouses. I want people to choose to be on the same page financially. I want people to choose good communication habits. I want people to take time and care with their relationship, not rushing to marry, to be sure they're a match. No one is born with the wisdom to realize they have 'daddy-issues', or a trust problem, or abandonment issues, and even if they did, knowing you have a dysfunction doesn't mean you can fix it. So, I want people to choose to explore those dynamics before committing, and certainly before having children.

 

[joe six-pack]

Not true. God did not predispose mans thoughts and actions.

Depends on your interpretation of Isaiah 45:7.

7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

A literal interpretation of the Old Testament and Book of Revelation would require a belief that God orchestrates fate. How else could there be prophecy of the future? If there is no predisposition, then how can there be prophets at all? How did Jesus know who would deny him and who would betray him?

 

[roguenuke]

Well, funny you mention that...we accepted the earth being round far sooner than the idea that gays should marry.

You're wrong. They had same sex marriage in various cultures before many of those cultures, if ever, believed the earth was round. It doesn't matter how little time you believe it was accepted because it was accepted, at least to some degree, in many cultures.

It isn't even that hard to explain why it is becoming more acceptable now than it has been in the past.

For one thing, we are finding that we don't really need to worry too much about couples having children to keep up populations because we are living longer, healthier lives than ever before. We also don't really need so many children to help work for the family, especially in more developed nations (including our own). In fact, having children work to help the family business isn't all that common at all now days.

Another difference between now and much of the time in the past is that women are allowed to have a lot more freedom and are seen as equals to men in almost every Western civilization (including ours). This is a big thing because it changes some of the dynamics of how family relationships are established and when and if women have children.

A big difference is the fact that love is seen as the primary reason to get married, instead of social climbing or politics or just cultural/family obligations. It is has only been the last couple of hundred years that the majority of people get married because of love rather than because the family picked out who they thought would be the best suitable partner. Arranged marriages, especially in the US, are viewed as almost taboo nowdays by Western cultures. It is not a requirement at all to get a parent's permission unless it is for someone who is underage who is wanting to get married.

 

[Jerry]

Depends on your interpretation of Isaiah 45:7.

7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

A literal interpretation of the Old Testament and Book of Revelation would require a belief that God orchestrates fate. How else could there be prophecy of the future? If there is no predisposition, then how can there be prophets at all? How did Jesus know who would deny him and who would betray him?

My Drill Sergeants would often create scenarios where you could make the wrong decision. This served a training purpose.

Just because God created evil, doesn't mean He endorses and recommends it. The Evil God allows into our lives likewise serves a training purpose.