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How many more gays does god have to create...

Dittohead not! said:
Because being homosexual is not really well accepted by most people. If parents could identify a gay fetus, many of them would abort it and try again. I can't prove that, of course, as it is a hypothetical, but it does seem likely. As it is, about a quarter of all fetuses are aborted. Parents would be more likely to abort one that they found "defective" in some way and try for a perfect one.

That's just an opinion, of course. There is no way to know for sure.
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It's probably a fairly accurate opinion, I'd think.... but I don't think there will ever be a test that can tell you with any certainty "yes, this fetus will absolutely be gay." I don't think homosexuality is genetic or inborn to any definite degree. The "gay gene" has been sought and not found.

I'm not going to assert that certain prenatal conditions might not predispose someone more towards homosexuality than would otherwise be typical (hormone levels or other neuro-chemical variations) because it might be so even if unproven; but I think early environment, early experiences with socialization and sexualization (not sex per se, but intrest in the opposite or whatever gender) around ages 9-14, and yes a certain amount of choice are actually the ingredients that end up causing "orientation"... in as much as we can even define "orientation", a slippery term that some want to entirely divorce from behavior. That's part of the problem as I see it... people want to talk about orientation, which is a theory... when very commonly behavior (what people actually DO) is a lot more complex and a lot more likely to vary from presumed-orientation.

In short I don't think we know anywhere near as much about sexuality in general, and sexual orientation in particular, as many people think we do. In particular I think we're still a long way from understanding, in a medical/psychological/sociological sense, what makes some people LGBT.
 
mac said:
Your concept of how Christian doctrine is followed means absolutely squat, so you know.
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Geo Patric said:
i have not actually expressed an opinion of christian doctrine, only christian practice. but... see, the trouble is in identifying christian doctrine. most people do not have one. YOU have no concept, as you have already acknowledged yourself... you pick and choose the bits you like and disregard the rest... as do most christians.

who cares?

what matters is that you condemn others for violating your rules... most of which you do not follow.

geo.
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I'm no English teacher, but isn't "how Christian Doctrine is followed" and "Christian practice" pretty much the same thing?
 
Goshin said:
but I don't think there will ever be a test that can tell you with any certainty "yes, this fetus will absolutely be gay." I don't think homosexuality is genetic or inborn to any definite degree.
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If you play Barbara streisand music to the baby while it is in utero and the baby starts dancing, it's 100% certain the baby is gay.
 
Tucker Case said:
If you play Barbara streisand music to the baby while it is in utero and the baby starts dancing, it's 100% certain the baby is gay.
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And if you play Judy Garland music and the baby starts singing, it's 100% certain that the baby will join start another Village People group...
 
mac said:
I'm no English teacher, but isn't "how Christian Doctrine is followed" and "Christian practice" pretty much the same thing?
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I'm "not an English teacher", would follow accurate rules of grammar, so yes, we know that you ain't no english teacher... ;)
 
“Now, if you want to backtrack on this, we can go over it again, but I'll bet that we will get the same result.” - CaptainCourtesy

That homosexual orientation stands in contradiction with God’s created design?
I thought we just settled that.

“I think I already did. Several times.” - CaptainCourtesy

Did you? I assume you mean this thread. Could you tell me what post numbers those were?

“Of course I do. Another point that tends to make the argument rather silly.” - CaptainCourtesy

Did you? Crap. I was hoping to start a more interesting conversation.

Not sure how that makes my argument “silly”, though.
 
Goshin said:
It's probably a fairly accurate opinion, I'd think.... but I don't think there will ever be a test that can tell you with any certainty "yes, this fetus will absolutely be gay." I don't think homosexuality is genetic or inborn to any definite degree. The "gay gene" has been sought and not found.

I'm not going to assert that certain prenatal conditions might not predispose someone more towards homosexuality than would otherwise be typical (hormone levels or other neuro-chemical variations) because it might be so even if unproven; but I think early environment, early experiences with socialization and sexualization (not sex per se, but intrest in the opposite or whatever gender) around ages 9-14, and yes a certain amount of choice are actually the ingredients that end up causing "orientation"... in as much as we can even define "orientation", a slippery term that some want to entirely divorce from behavior. That's part of the problem as I see it... people want to talk about orientation, which is a theory... when very commonly behavior (what people actually DO) is a lot more complex and a lot more likely to vary from presumed-orientation.

In short I don't think we know anywhere near as much about sexuality in general, and sexual orientation in particular, as many people think we do. In particular I think we're still a long way from understanding, in a medical/psychological/sociological sense, what makes some people LGBT.
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I would rather have a gay daughter than a gay son. Having had only daughters, I know that I am biased. Not knowing the sexual orientation of my girls though, those are my thoughts...
 
The Baron said:
That homosexual orientation stands in contradiction with God’s created design?.
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But since there is not a God, who cares what man's fantasized version of what they think that he would think is. I care about what is, not what people use to justify oppression.
 
Tucker Case said:
And I'd rather have a gay son than one who is a Packer fan. We all have priorities in life.
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No pun intended, I'm sure.

In reality, I would rather have a healthy and happy well adjusted child than not...
 
I simply want my grandchildren to live in a country where their sexual orientation doesn't matter, and they are given the same constitutional protections as every other citizen. At the moment, I believe that homosexuals are the only individuals in America that can be legally discriminated against. That's not just a shame. It's morally wrong.
 
DiAnna said:
I simply want my grandchildren to live in a country where their sexual orientation doesn't matter, and they are given the same constitutional protections as every other citizen. At the moment, I believe that homosexuals are the only individuals in America that can be legally discriminated against. That's not just a shame. It's morally wrong.
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I am not so sure... sexual orientation effects attitude, emotions and physical prowess...

They suffer from reduced rates of work efficiency, selling ability and teaching ability.

Homosexuals are far inferior at being a productive tax paying citizen and at owning their own business.

Gays obviously cannot effectively cook food or be a chef.

Homosexuals are terrible at the design process, whether it be clothes, art or architecture.

Homosexuals make up over 90% of all convicted felons and 100% of all road rage incidents are sparked due to their inability to control their anger.

The APA has concluded that homosexuality is a serious disease that is contagious and could spark suicide bomber tendencies as well.

Ronald MacDonald is gayer than gay, and he is leading Americans down the road of obesity...
 
Bodhisattva said:
I am not so sure... sexual orientation effects attitude, emotions and physical prowess...
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Attitude, emotion and prowess are traits unique to each person, regardless of sexual fancy.

The Government shouldn't pick and choose who is a "worthy" citizen and who is not, based on a group trait.
 
Jerry said:
Yes we should. We absolutely should. Bad drivers should be filtered out early and either re-trained into good drivers or blocked from being behind the wheel.
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Only if they are really bad drivers, not just people who might be based on bias against those people, for one reason or another.

Also, this is where you're analogy doesn't quite cut it since marriage is a lot less likely, in and of itself, to cause injury or accident than driving, which causes death and injury somewhere almost every minute of the day. Bad marriages may cause mental/emotional damage or even possibly physical damage, but those things are almost as likely to happen whether there is a legal marriage involved or not in the relationship.
 
This really boils down to religion vs secular law. If you're an actual traditional Christian, you'd view homosexuality as a sin. However, all religious people live in a now secular nation, with secular laws. What else can said religious people do about it? They can have their voices heard through certain politicians like Rick Santorum, etc. So long as the government does not try to pervert/restrain pastors in their churches, I will not be much disturbed.
 
Why Chicago?
 
mac said:
I'm no English teacher, but isn't "how Christian Doctrine is followed" and "Christian practice" pretty much the same thing?
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well, i DO teach English and one of the things we try to get into the heads of the lil darlins is that one should use Quote marks ONLY around the specific and exact words they can attribute to another.

now, see... i did not compare "how Christian Doctrine is followed" and "Christian practice", I compared Doctrine and Practice which are quite different things. i did so because most christians do not practice their faith in much accord with christian doctrine nor is christian doctrine much in accord with the teachings of the man to whom it is attributed.

of course, that is really none of my business... until, in their practice they seek to circumscribe the rights of others, to impose their doctrines on the rest of us. then i make it my business.

geo.
 
joe six-pack said:
Attitude, emotion and prowess are traits unique to each person, regardless of sexual fancy.

The Government shouldn't pick and choose who is a "worthy" citizen and who is not, based on a group trait.
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But obviously gays are affected much more severely...
 
Bodhisattva said:
But obviously gays are affected much more severely...
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The only thing that is obvious is that people react badly when oppressed by society.

It isn't the Governments job to mititgate risk or think for you or dictate your ethics.

That's the end of the debate about how much say the Government should have in life choices.
 
joe six-pack said:
That's the end of the debate about how much say the Government should have in life choices.
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gee, joe... thanks.... we were beginning to think we might have to think about this stuff on our own and maybe discuss it with each other.

you saved us a lotta effort. now i know how some folks get so smart - just shut up and listen!

geo.
 
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