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How Legitimate Peace And Unity Begins

Integrityrespec

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Republicans must:

  • To a man and woman acknowledge the elections were legitimate, Biden won fairly, and Donald Trump’s fantastical claims of election rigging were just that. They must acknowledge the voter fraud hoax they used as a predicate for their campaigning.
  • Those who incited the insurrection by backing these claims should resign. Cruz and Hawley have to go, for sure.
  • Donald Trump must be impeached with strong bi-partisan support. Removal, should it come now or next congress, same. Both parties must speak with one voice where he is concerned.
  • LEadership must ratchet way down the Rush Limbaification of their rhetoric. Stop using commie marxist socialist interchangably in response to virtually every policy proposal a Democratic politician makes (be adults, and stop with the dumb DEMOCRAT POL shit). Stop calling your voters “patriots” vs everyone else.
  • Republican voters themselves need to take a breath and instead of demanding we listen to ”74m of us” stop to think there were 81m who disagreed, we are Americans too, and we should have a say as well. The idea that the 74m are the single most important group of humans in the country demanding all of our oxygen is an idea that needs to be put to bed.
Notice none of these bullet points require accepting policies you don’t agree with, polticians you don’t wish to vote for, etc. But if your expression of peace and unity is simply demanding no accountablity for the GOP while still telling us it was a rigged election and we’re all commies, and George Soros, blah blah nope. Nope.

Elections have consequences.
#1. Will not happen because it's doubtful that its true.
#2. Same for democrats who have incited the insurrection in cities like Portland, Waters, Booker, Harris have to go for sure.
#3. All republicans and democrats who voted to impeach without a hearing, without proof, without offering the President an opportunity to defend himself as is the American way, need to be impeached.
#4. Leadership myst ratchet way down the racist rhetoric. Stop using racist, white privilege, white supremacist, systemic racism interchangeable in response to virtually every policy proposal a Republican politician makes. Stop calling your voters victims and their riots movements to express their voices.
#5. Democrat voters need to take a breath and instead of demanding we listen to 80M of us, stop to think there were 74m who disagreed, we are Americans too and we should have a say as well. The idea that 80m are the single most important group of humans in the country demanding all of our oxygen is an idea that needs to be put to bed.
None of these bullet points require acceptiing policies you don't agree with, politicians you don't wish to vote for, etc. But if your expression of peace and unity is simply demanding no accountability for the Dems (who supported riots and destruction all summer) (and illegal changes to voting laws in state constitutions) while still telling us it was not a rigged election and we are all racist, Trump cultist, blah, blah, NOPE.
 

Integrityrespec

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As he OP explains, there can’t be unity without certain conditions met. GOP spent 2 months lying to its base, giving Trump’s false claims about the election oxygen.

Unity without justice and accountability is a false peace.
You really don't have your facts correct, stop blindly believing the left wing communist ideology you are being told by democrat leaders and MSM media.
 

Aunt Antifa

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Aunt Antifa

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You really don't have your facts correct, stop blindly believing the left wing communist ideology you are being told by democrat leaders and MSM media.
Blah blah orange man god blah blah
 

Aunt Antifa

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Yep. Screw 'em.
Since when do we negotiate with terrorists? Unity begins with 74m telling 80m our votes don’t count?

They can tell that story walkin, pal.
 

Luce

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Since when do we negotiate with terrorists? Unity begins with 74m telling 80m our votes don’t count?

They can tell that story walkin, pal.
I think they mistook "unity" for "power sharing", because that's the only way they can think.
 

Integrityrespec

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In 1963 the Goals of the Communist Party for America, were offered up in Congress. These were entered into the the Congressional Record.
These goals specifically noted by the Communist party to achieve in their goal to take over America without firing a shot. These are but a few of the obvious. The link for the complete list is at the bottom.
15 – Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. – Democrat Party is now captured.

16 – Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17 – Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks. – Done.

19 – Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20 – Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21 – Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

27 – Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”

28 – Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”

29 – Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30 – Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”

31 – Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.”

32 – Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

37 – Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38 – Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies.

 

Aunt Antifa

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In 1963 the Goals of the Communist Party for America, were offered up in Congress. These were entered into the the Congressional Record.
These goals specifically noted by the Communist party to achieve in their goal to take over America without firing a shot. These are but a few of the obvious. The link for the complete list is at the bottom.
15 – Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. – Democrat Party is now captured.

16 – Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17 – Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks. – Done.

19 – Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20 – Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21 – Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

27 – Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”

28 – Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”

29 – Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30 – Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”

31 – Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.”

32 – Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

37 – Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38 – Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies.

This is from a book that was part of McCarthyism. When you say “offered up to Congress” you mean some right wing dumbass read sections of this right wing dumbass book out loud in the chamber. Like when Matt Gaetz farts and pretends he just did an official act.

So you’re a fan of McCarthyism and I bet you’ve had lots of opinions about Twitter this week, amirite?
 

MrWonka

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Liberals had their own loud & rabid base long before "The Donald" came on to the presidential scene.

You can't get away with pretending that Democrats have not used vitriol to stir their own base, and still try to make an argument for them being the more civil party...
Please cite and or list examples of supposed vitriol including specific cases where it was used by Presidents, Presidential Candidates, or members of party leadership without an apology.
 

Alizia Tyler

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As he OP explains, there can’t be unity without certain conditions met. GOP spent 2 months lying to its base, giving Trump’s false claims about the election oxygen.

Unity without justice and accountability is a false peace.
I consider it unlikely/highly unlikely that 70 million citizens will ever, God forbid, bow in any sense and at any level to your perverse ‘list of conditions’.

Safe to say they regard your party as corrupt to the core. I can assert in any case that I do.

Years of battle and struggle lie before us all.

Juro que digo la verdad
 

Aunt Antifa

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I consider it likely/highly likely that 70 million citizens will never, God willing, bow in any sense and at any level to your perverse ‘list of conditions’.

Safe to say they regard your party as corrupt to the core. I can assert in any case that I do.

Years of battle and struggle lie before us all.

Juro que digo la verdad
If they think accepting reality is perverse, yah they’re gonna be shut out. Society will move on.
 

Alizia Tyler

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If they think accepting reality is perverse, yah they’re gonna be shut out. Society will move on.
I edited the phrasing of my post. Same gist though.

Two different sorts of society are developing. And these core differences will not diminish nor be bridged. These are issues and struggles that will carry on -- in very interesting ways no doubt -- for many years.
 

Tim the plumber

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For those who want to know why Trump voters think there was voter fraud;


Obviously those who don't want to see the evidence don't look it will upset you.
 

RetiredUSN

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There will be civility when the elected politicians are held to the same standards as the person on the street.

Slander, defamation, and inciting unruly behavior should be cause for censure or other punitive measures..........right up to removal from office.
 

Alizia Tyler

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The whole Trumpian approach to who deserves to be here goes against everything we stand for. We are supposed to be the melting pot where everyone loves their heritage but everyone also makes the effort to reinterpret that heritage as a contributing member of American society. And the funny thing is, we can tell that the candle wasn't completely snuffed out when Trumpians echoed the infamous "Taco trucks on every corner" speech. A majority of Americans mocked it because they could tell that it was codespeak for some explicitly racist messages.
A) "The whole Trumpian approach to who deserves to be here goes against everything we stand for."
The Immigration Act of 1924 (The Johnson-Reed Act)

The Immigration Act of 1924 limited the number of immigrants allowed entry into the United States through a national origins quota. The quota provided immigration visas to two percent of the total number of people of each nationality in the United States as of the 1890 national census. It completely excluded immigrants from Asia.
As I said in other places, simply by broaching this conversation (talking openly on forbidden topics) I am aware that I will be seen as implicating myself in an immoral act. I am interested in probing what you assert: that quotas, for example, go against everything we stand for. I simply ask that this assertion be examined and the reason I focus on this is because it is with non-truthful statements such as this that I notice *intellectual dishonesty*. Put simply there is no reason in the world why the specific immigration policy I refer to above is not sane, rational, democratic and also entirely ethical and moral. And to have such a policy does not turn against 'everything we stand for' necessarily. It is a false assertion -- and an ideologically driven assertion -- that having concerns in this area turns against essential American values.

So what I suggest is examining what I call *the declaration* that the writer of that phrase is justified, morally and rationally, in making that assertion. I further suggest that because the assertion is essentially false and erroneous that it is a form of *lie*. Its purpose, and this seems rather obvious, is to cast moral shadow on anyone who sees differently, believes differently, and has a different argument.

[cont. next]
 

Alizia Tyler

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[cont. from previous]

B) "We are supposed to be the melting pot..."

The Melting Pot is a complex metaphor. It came on the scene largely through a play by that name in 1908. But prior to that the notion of an American crucible had been described in Letters of An American Farmer in 1782:
...whence came all these people? They are a mixture of English, Scotch, Irish, French, Dutch, Germans, and Swedes... What, then, is the American, this new man? He is either an European or the descendant of an European; hence that strange mixture of blood, which you will find in no other country. I could point out to you a family whose grandfather was an Englishman, whose wife was Dutch, whose son married a French woman, and whose present four sons have now four wives of different nations. He is an American, who, leaving behind him all his ancient prejudices and manners, receives new ones from the new mode of life he has embraced, the new government he obeys, and the new rank he holds.... The Americans were once scattered all over Europe; here they are incorporated into one of the finest systems of population which has ever appeared.
— J. Hector St. John de Crevecoeur, Letters from an American Farmer
It is clear -- it is obvious -- that up to a certain point in time the *ingredients* of the Melting Pot were limited to Europe. And for this reason I have said that America defined America as a European-derived nation. That was its identity. It was understood as such. And it seems true therefore that by making this definition they did not turn against "everything we stand for" but rather that they worked within an accepted and a rational definitional limit.

Going further I would suggest that the notion of *what we stand for* has a certain flexibility. In 1908 Israel Zangwill wrote a play with that title: The Melting Pot.

The Melting Pot is a play by Israel Zangwill, first staged in 1908. It depicts the life of a Russian Jewish immigrant family, the Quixanos. David Quixano has survived a pogrom, which killed his mother and sister, and he wishes to forget this horrible event. He composes an "American Symphony" and wants to look forward to a society free of ethnic divisions and hatred, rather than backward at his traumatic past.
I am not making any moral judgments here, rather I am pointing out that the definitions have changed and they have changed, and continue to change, because of specific activism. And when the politics and activism of -- in this case -- Zangwill is examined, the issue of the 'cultural engineering' that I have been referring to takes on relevancy. That is, it is relevant and it can be examined.

Zangwill endorsed feminism and pacifism, but his greatest effect may have been as a writer who popularised the idea of the combination of ethnicities into a single, American nation. The hero of his widely produced play, The Melting Pot, proclaims: "America is God's Crucible, the great Melting-Pot where all the races of Europe are melting and reforming... Germans and Frenchmen, Irishmen and Englishmen, Jews and Russians – into the Crucible with you all! God is making the American."
It should be obvious that I am suggesting not only 'cultural engineering' by 'cultural manipulation'. This means of course fiddling with the very definition of what America is an means.
 

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The fact that some on the so-called conservative side ignore dem 'vitriol' has never launched an insurrection invading the Capital Blg. surprises no one here... :rolleyes:

After 2016 there was plenty of dem vitriol but there were not 60 failed lawsuits, no constant parade of liars claiming (without any proof) of fraud, computer manipulation, suitcases of ballots and other crapfest shows.... :unsure:

The fact that some on the losing side this time don't understand proportion and think a cat is the same as a skunk because both have fur and a love of mice again surprises no one here... ✌
Look there are plenty of frivolous lawsuits to go round.

BUT
If you want to be the party that holds this country together, if you want to be the party that is the adult in the room, what you DON'T do is start demanding concessions of the other half of the country.

What you should do is be the big boy party and start working to heal the rift that surely divides this country. No, it doesn't always work (in fact, it hasn't for the past 12 or so years) but it USED to work. There used to be compromise, and I feel like there can be again.

But not if both sides stand there screaming at each other how bad, how evil the other side is.

Want to be the better party? Act like it
 

Alizia Tyler

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And the funny thing is, we can tell that the candle wasn't completely snuffed out when Trumpians echoed the infamous "Taco trucks on every corner" speech.

A majority of Americans mocked it because they could tell that it was codespeak for some explicitly racist messages
Well the thing that interest me is in what you are making an effort to communicate with this observation.

Your first declatation is that it is morally wrong to be concerned about Mexican or Meso-American immigration. After stating the example you then say that any voicing of concern -- the concern itself! -- is necessarily racist. And there is it! The devious use of an extremely underhanded, but super-potent, emotional attack with the tool of shame.

People collapse when the term racist! is applied. It has been described as a *magic word*.

That issue is very complex of course because there are maybe 25 million illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America who took up residence by their own choice. That in itself is a legitimate cause for concern (the issue of illegal entry). And the issue is obviously more complex because Mexicans and Meso-Americans hold to a national identification that is not to the nation America. If I were Mexican and 5 million white European-Americans more or less suddenly appeared in my country I would have genuine reasons for concern! This is totally obvious. Try as you might you could not, ever, put forth a coherent argument to undermine this. It is a clear as the light of day.

Except here, in your general discourse, the salient feature is that you do not allow any such concern. You make the issue of concern into a moral evil. Now why is that? Who do you serve? What do you serve? And why? These are good and fair questions.

But there is another level of what I will describe as legitimate ethical and moral concern. It is really quite simple. The people of a country have a right to have a voice in deciding who can and who should become members of that country. And I would say that they have a right at the most fundamental and somatic level (the level of the body taken literally) to be concerned about racial composition. That could be in Nigeria, in France, in Paraguay. It is a very simple and recognizable moral right. If you think you can rationally and fairly rebut what I assert here please do. Just work through the example: it is legitimate and is it ethical for a Nigerian to resist being forced to *integrate* his or her culture with some other culture? That is, to ultimately *blend together* with other groups of people at a somatic level?

When you examine the issue from a moral and ethical perspective the answer is obviously yes: one does have that right to resist! But notice that what you do is to take that right away! You make it into an issue of moral reprehension. And it is ideological tenets that are at work here, and they have a causal chain that can be examined in detail.

So what does this issue revolve around, that is, essentially? It has to do with who has the right, and who has the power, to engage in the cultural engineering I refer to. To engineer culturally is an act that can only be undertaken, broadly, by an empowered élite. And it is obviously a result of ideological impositions. And it (also obviously) involves blaming, shaming and vilifying anyone who will not accept, or has doubts about, the engineering being imposed.
 
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RaleBulgarian

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How about we have a decent proper investigation of the claims of fraud first and if the investigation comes up with the result that fraud did change the election result there is another election?

If there is a proper, open, investigation with all claims of fraund fully looked at you will find that 99% of the Trump supporters will accept the result.
There is no need for additional investigations.

Trump lost, fair and square.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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Well the thing that interest me is in what you are making an effort to communicate with this observation.

Your first declatation is that it is morally wrong to be concerned about Mexican or Meso-American immigration. After stating the example you then say that any voicing of concern -- the concern itself! -- is necessarily racist. And there is it! The devious use of an extremely underhanded, but super-potent, emotional attack with the tool of shame.

People collapse when the term racist! is applied. It has been described as a *magic word*.

That issue is very complex of course because there are maybe 25 million illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America who took up residence by their own choice. That in itself is a legitimate cause for concern (the issue of illegal entry). And the issue is obviously more complex because Mexicans and Meso-Americans hold to a national identification that is not to the nation America. If I were Mexican and 5 million white European-Americans more or less suddenly appeared in my country I would have genuine reasons for concern! This is totally obvious. Try as you might you could not, ever, put forth a coherent argument to undermine this. It is a clear as the light of day.

Except here, in your general discourse, the salient feature is that you do not allow any such concern. You make the issue of concern into a moral evil. Now why is that? Who do you serve? What do you serve? And why? These are good and fair questions.

But there is another level of what I will describe as legitimate ethical and moral concern. It is really quite simple. The people of a country have a right to have a voice in deciding who can and who should become members of that country. And I would say that they have a right at the most fundamental and somatic level (the level of the body taken literally) to be concerned about racial composition. That could be in Nigeria, in France, in Paraguay. It is a very simple and recognizable moral right. If you think you can rationally and fairly rebut what I assert here please do. Just work through the example: it is legitimate and is it ethical for a Nigerian to resist being forced to *integrate* his or her culture with some other culture? That is, to ultimately *blend together* with other groups of people at a somatic level?

When you examine the issue from a moral and ethical perspective the answer is obviously yes: one does have that right to resist! But notice that what you do is to take that right away! You make it into an issue of moral reprehension. And it is ideological tenets that are at work here, and they have a causal chain that can be examined in detail.

So what does this issue revolve around, that is, essentially? It has to do with who has the right, and who has the power, to engage in the cultural engineering I refer to. To engineer culturally is an act that can only be undertaken, broadly, by an empowered élite. And it is obviously a result of ideological impositions. And it (also obviously) involves blaming, shaming and vilifying anyone who will not accept, or has doubts about, the engineering being imposed.
Wow, you really do commit to a lot of windyfoggery with your sealioning.
 

devildavid

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For those who want to know why Trump voters think there was voter fraud;


Obviously those who don't want to see the evidence don't look it will upset you.
Yes, they better investigate Trump's victory in Texas.

There is zero evidence in that video of voter fraud. Or is arresting someone evidence that they did what they are being arrested for? I'm so upset!
 

RaleBulgarian

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Looks like there will be additional court cases even if you don't like it.

Court cases into the widespread voter fraud.
😂😂😂 Clearly, you’re oblivious to the fact that Project Veritas is well known for their extremest views and lying.

Let me know when you start taking bets on further federal investigations into purported election/voting fraud in the 2020 presidential election. ;)
 
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