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How far away are we from not using oil, coal, and nuclear and instead ethanol, wind, and solar?

Well, I'm doing my best to get the wind power system working commercially.

Anybody out there some sort of experienced business man type (woman whatever) with the wish to set up a nice little earner of about $400k/yr per region of 800 miles diameter?

The transportation costs of finnished units will be high as they are large empty oddly shaped sheds. Cheap to build but costly to move so the natural model involves lots of small manufacture plants rather than a central one.
Build on location is the standard mode, moving buildings is very difficult.
 
Between twelve and seventy-five, depending on how much you drive each day, and the efficiency of your panels.
Most residential solar installations have about 25-30 panels. Since most residential solar systems are grid-tied, and most people charge their cars at night, you're really trading the power you use during the day, which comes from solar, for the power you use at night.

In any case, it appears to be a reasonable arrangement.

"Pick My Solar"

On a personal note, that is how the neighbor down the street charges their Nissan Leaf, and it appears to be a more than satisfactory arrangement.
PS: His electric bill is still remarkably lower than it used to be as well, even with his car charging every night.



He adds a load and his bill goes down?
 
Depends, do you want rapid charging or all night long charging?

Exactly. Rapid charging (sometimes known as "SuperCharge" by Tesla standards) or "Level 3" charging is not recommended for everyday use because over time it is not friendly to current battery technology battery lifetime.

If you've charged your car overnight, and you go to the end of your range, it's okay to do a quick 20 or 30 minute SuperCharge to get another 140 to 175 miles, and maybe even one more to get another 140 to 175 miles. By that point, if you're driving alone and you're not snorting crystal meth or sucking down a 12 pack of Red Bull, you're going to have driven as far as most people can in a day, and you're going to be sleeping, thus overnight charging again.

Few if any people have a Level 3 charger installed at home. And Level 3 WOULD require a ridiculous number of panels.
 
Exactly. Rapid charging (sometimes known as "SuperCharge" by Tesla standards) or "Level 3" charging is not recommended for everyday use because over time it is not friendly to current battery technology battery lifetime.

If you've charged your car overnight, and you go to the end of your range, it's okay to do a quick 20 or 30 minute SuperCharge to get another 140 to 175 miles, and maybe even one more to get another 140 to 175 miles. By that point, if you're driving alone and you're not snorting crystal meth or sucking down a 12 pack of Red Bull, you're going to have driven as far as most people can in a day, and you're going to be sleeping, thus overnight charging again.

Few if any people have a Level 3 charger installed at home. And Level 3 WOULD require a ridiculous number of panels.

MY neighbor used to charge his small motorcycle battery by paralleling it with his car battery, with NO current regulation. His small battery couldn't take it...he finally repaired the alternator on the motorcycle after destroying several motorcycle batteries.
 
Sorry but using terms like "direct costs" is nonsense. There are costs, and it doesn't matter if they are direct or indirect.
Petroleum is notorious for having "indirect costs" which dwarf the actual cost of recovering the mineral assets.

Almost all of our foreign policy revolves around petroleum, and our war in Iraq wasn't about 9/11, it was about oil.
Wars are fought by numerous countries over oil. In any case, I put the link and the graphic up to simply illustrate how much energy is needed to break free of petroleum, not as a convenient excuse to drag California bashing into the thread.

I never said that we're just around the corner from achieving these energy figures, I just put them up for consideration.

The next time you are cruising up the valley, stop here and ask for a tour... actually call ahead:

https://www.guardianglass.com/AboutGuardian/Newsroom/News/GI_005415

This Guardian Glass in Kingsburg, CA. You can see it from Hwy 99. If they are still doing float, they are the only glass manufacturer in California. If you have never seen how glass is made, it's worth the trip. I suggest this to you so you can get some idea just how much energy it takes to run a factory like this. Most people just don't have any idea how much power it takes to get the wheels to go around on a commercial scale. I don't recall if they are gas or electric, but energy is energy.

The company is so massive the website is too big to make sense of here. Just give them a call.
 
According to your neighbor it subtracts, not adds.....typo?

Oh FFS, I'm saying that he told me his overall bill is lower than when he had straight utility from the electric company.
His Leaf has not ADDED all that much to his OVERALL lower bill.
He HAD been paying $400 to 500 a month, now his overall bill, WITH the lease payment on the solar, is closer to $250.
I would guess the Leaf adds maybe 20 bucks a month to the bill.

Why is that so hard to understand?
 
We subsidize Iowa farmers who use their corn to make ethanol which is then shipped by rail all the way to the refineries in Newark, NJ. The alternative would be cheap Brazilian ethanol that could be brought in by tanker that would tie up just outside the refineries. But we have a restrictive tariff on their ethanol to protect the rich Iowa farmers, Thanks, Sen. Grassley.

Ethanol train.jpg
 
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Oh FFS, I'm saying that he told me his overall bill is lower than when he had straight utility from the electric company.
His Leaf has not ADDED all that much to his OVERALL lower bill.
He HAD been paying $400 to 500 a month, now his overall bill, WITH the lease payment on the solar, is closer to $250.
I would guess the Leaf adds maybe 20 bucks a month to the bill.

Why is that so hard to understand?
Because you left out some information....

Not to get too technical but I have been involved in alternate energy since Jimmy Carter was elected, and I spent many years working in the nuclear power industry.
 
How much progress has been made? How much progress remains before we can use ethanol, wind, and solar instead of fossil fuels? What is still standing in our way?

answer: Congress and Trump's deregulations
 
Not to get overly pointey headed, but each one of the options has a replacement cost that needs to be added in. Oil is “harvested prehistoric sunlight”, and the only direct cost is lifting and infrastructure.

In California forcing the use of renewables is causing high utility prices, and one more reason for jobs to leave,or not be created in the first place.

What about the cost of drilling and finding new wells and maintaining refineries? What about the pollution? What about the fact that fossil fuels eventually run out?

Imagine how many jobs we can create focusing on renewable energies.
 
Affordability for the masses.

It's getting there. We're about at the point where VCR's were in the late-1970's, when a decent VCR was still around three or four hundred bucks. Even though you could get a base model for 200, it was crap and not worth getting.

By the late 1980's even a good VCR was in the 250 dollar range.
This is technology, every year is a decade.
 
Base load plants are hydro, coal, and nuclear, and take a lot of time to start up and shutdown, while peaking plants are usually combined cycle natural gas and can start/stop comparatively instantly.
Renewables are added to the grid when available and can do much to reduce fuel use by coal/gas etc. So far, that is what we have to work with in most places like it or not.

Electric cars need a lot less maintenance, definitely a plus.
 
MY neighbor used to charge his small motorcycle battery by paralleling it with his car battery, with NO current regulation. His small battery couldn't take it...he finally repaired the alternator on the motorcycle after destroying several motorcycle batteries.

It's not as bad as that, it's just that fast charging heats the batteries up a lot more than overnight charging, and they can take the heat, just not over a lifetime, unless you don't mind shortening the battery life by about 30 percent.
 
The next time you are cruising up the valley, stop here and ask for a tour... actually call ahead:

https://www.guardianglass.com/AboutGuardian/Newsroom/News/GI_005415

This Guardian Glass in Kingsburg, CA. You can see it from Hwy 99. If they are still doing float, they are the only glass manufacturer in California. If you have never seen how glass is made, it's worth the trip. I suggest this to you so you can get some idea just how much energy it takes to run a factory like this. Most people just don't have any idea how much power it takes to get the wheels to go around on a commercial scale. I don't recall if they are gas or electric, but energy is energy.

The company is so massive the website is too big to make sense of here. Just give them a call.

I am not disputing any of that, Chuck.
Unlike some here, I actually DO NOT foresee us getting completely off either central utilities OR carbon based fuels anytime soon.
But what is unsustainable is the notion that we can just continue with the status quo. We absolutely NEED renewables to be developed to their max potential, so that we build FEWER carbon based central utility plants.
Decentralized and localized residential power is the future but we will still need contributions from the big utilities to power the big commercial and industrial users first and foremost.
And I am okay with that, if we can keep them cleaner and explore things like thorium nukes.
 
We subsidize Iowa farmers who use their corn to make ethanol which is then shipped by rail all the way to the refineries in Newark, NJ. The alternative would be cheap Brazilian ethanol that could be brought in by tanker that would tie up just outside the refineries. But we have a restrictive tariff on their ethanol to protect the rich Iowa farmers, Thanks, Sen. Grassley.

View attachment 67247588

Actually we could grow the sugar cane and use the bagasse and make ethanol in the deep South.
 
How much progress has been made? How much progress remains before we can use ethanol, wind, and solar instead of fossil fuels? What is still standing in our way?
Ethanol damages engines. Delivery of wind powered submarines and airplanes is behind schedule.
 
Denmark got 43 percent of their electricity from wind power in 2017 and also plan to meet 50 percent of all their energy needs with renewable energy by 2030

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2018/0111/932573-denmark-wind-farm/

While Scotland got 68 percent of their electricity from renewable energy in 2017.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...scotland-climate-change-oil-gas-a8283166.html

You also have Northern Indiana Public Service Company NIPSCO, a energy company in Republican controlled Indiana, that will reduce carbon emissions by more than 90 percent by 2028, by replacing coal power with cheaper renewable power.

https://www.nipsco.com/your-energy
Get back to us in 2028 when the actually accomplish that. :cool:
 
We subsidize Iowa farmers who use their corn to make ethanol which is then shipped by rail all the way to the refineries in Newark, NJ. The alternative would be cheap Brazilian ethanol that could be brought in by tanker that would tie up just outside the refineries. But we have a restrictive tariff on their ethanol to protect the rich Iowa farmers, Thanks, Sen. Grassley.

View attachment 67247588

Hell, make vodka with it and sell it to the Russians! Burning corn is flatout stupid. They have been trying to get alcohol out of cellulose, but i haven’t been hearing much about that lately.
 
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